Pikeman Archive
Thread: publish 7
CLab2021
Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:31 pm
#40
The devs need to watch more star trek.
Leggy..this is one of my top 5 best lines I have read on the boards!!..for some reason it makes no since, but it does..lmao..
and this game is not PvP based...Leggy is right the majority of the players PvE..and the GCW can be PvE, its not just PvP..
...PvPer's are just the bigest whinners is all, much like the Jedi...
Daros
Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:17 pm
#41
Gunman21 wrote:
Well, it's obvious to me that combat moves which make it so you can't attack are pretty overpowering....IE warcry and panic shot. I mean, you land it, they can't do anything for 10-20 seconds, and in pvp, that's a very very long time. So I can't say I'm surprised that they want to change it.
So ah... why isn't Panic Shot being changed..?
Sorry.. bitterness setting in.
Sorry.. bitterness setting in.
Braglor
Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:29 pm
#42
Daros wrote:
So ah... why isn't Panic Shot being changed..?
I think we need to wait and see what the future holds 
As I understand it by Thunderhearth the HAM change is going to be a challenge for the melee classes, and with the combat revamp and removal of warcrys usefulness in close combat I believe it will all get very very very interesting to be a pikeMan 
OutbackWookiee
Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:49 am
#44
Gunman21 wrote:
Gunna step into the PvP/PvE discussion.
Yup, more people said they liked pve. But, if the game was focused strictly on PvE and only used PvP as a backdrop, the game would cease to be Star Wars and turn into Hunt Wars. Star Wars is all about Jedi and, at this time period, the rebellion vs the Empire. That screams PvP to me (reguarless of how it is now implemented in the game....)
Of course, they could make the game focus around pve gcw missions or whatnot, but then the game would just be another consol game with crafting. It would be too linear, people wouldlose intrest. (You can only kill Pickets,Nightsisters, stormtroopers,and all the other creatures/npcs so many times before you get bored with it and move on to other games...)A lot of people don't play the GCW right now because of the unbalances and the fact it really doesn't pull into the whole scheme of the game right now. Once they get the combat pass and GCW pass out,the focus will shift from PvE to PvP.
The point I was trying to make was, if they could somehow separate the PvP nerfs from effecting PvE, it would be happy happy joy joy.
Instead its 
Envoy3113
Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:17 am
#45
My problem with this is simple. I enter combat with a Bol, I have my Basic Lance, speed sliced for applying states. I'm also at the top in the speed boxes. So I engage this Bol and it seems I have forgotten about my spice, and wham, downer. So I warcry, The Bol is paused, I attempt to run and peace out, but my lance, combined with the server latancy lands me 2 hits post warcry before I am out of range. So exactly how is this supposed to help?
Daros
Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:26 am
#46
Gunman21 wrote:
Gunna step into the PvP/PvE discussion.
Yup, more people said they liked pve. But, if the game was focused strictly on PvE and only used PvP as a backdrop, the game would cease to be Star Wars and turn into Hunt Wars. Star Wars is all about Jedi and, at this time period, the rebellion vs the Empire. That screams PvP to me (reguarless of how it is now implemented in the game....)
Of course, they could make the game focus around pve gcw missions or whatnot, but then the game would just be another consol game with crafting. It would be too linear, people wouldlose intrest. (You can only kill Pickets,Nightsisters, stormtroopers,and all the other creatures/npcs so many times before you get bored with it and move on to other games...)A lot of people don't play the GCW right now because of the unbalances and the fact it really doesn't pull into the whole scheme of the game right now. Once they get the combat pass and GCW pass out,the focus will shift from PvE to PvP.
Well again, making it feel like Star Wars is kind of moot at this point... the game steps all over SW lore anyway. Really, I play it for being a game, not necessarily Star Wars. The concept behind it -does- scream PvP, but I think we've learned from -every- MMORPG in the past that PvP and PvE are seperate entities, and changing something for one aspect always compeletely screws up the second aspect. I can't tell you how many absolutely awful changes were made in Asheron's Call and Anarchy Online because of a few whiny PvPers.
Honestly.. I'm hoping more than anything that if they change how Warcry works, they give us something else that's effective against ranged folks besides spamming /lunge (or switching to a range weapon, which kinda defeats the purpose of the brawler tree
Gunman21
Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:25 pm
#47
Gunna step into the PvP/PvE discussion.
Yup, more people said they liked pve. But, if the game was focused strictly on PvE and only used PvP as a backdrop, the game would cease to be Star Wars and turn into Hunt Wars. Star Wars is all about Jedi and, at this time period, the rebellion vs the Empire. That screams PvP to me (reguarless of how it is now implemented in the game....)
Of course, they could make the game focus around pve gcw missions or whatnot, but then the game would just be another consol game with crafting. It would be too linear, people wouldlose intrest. (You can only kill Pickets,Nightsisters, stormtroopers,and all the other creatures/npcs so many times before you get bored with it and move on to other games...)A lot of people don't play the GCW right now because of the unbalances and the fact it really doesn't pull into the whole scheme of the game right now. Once they get the combat pass and GCW pass out,the focus will shift from PvE to PvP.
ScarletPhoenix
Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:56 pm
#48
Hehe, I think a lot of people aren't going to enjoy my point of view, but here it is anyway.
I think that not only is this a good change to Warcry, but it should be removed from Brawler professions to Squad Leaders (note: I'm a pikeman/medic/entertainer/CH, no room for SL there).
The problem with SWG is that there is no accomplishment right now, period, because everything is easy to kill with little or no strategy. Actually, there isn't very much strategy possible. There's no reason not to use the best special at your disposal, since buffs and mind foods/spice negate HAM costs and there is almost always a clearly best special. You might as well wear the best armor available that's nearly impenetrable since the encumberance is negated by the buffs. You may not have money to pay for buffs right now, but once you get enough to get your first set, you'll make it back within the next two missions most likely.
Players are simply too powerful at the moment, including the gimped BHs and Pikemen of the world. On top of that, SWG has very little to differentiate one class, one armor type, one weapon, one special attack, or one status effect from another. That's why SLs have absolutely nothing to do right now, because there simply aren't many support or special-use abilities in the game that are worth using. It was a stylistic choice, but even in a game that encourages "dabbling," there needs to be something that Carbineers have that Pistoleers can't do better, and vice versa. As it is now, every profession has a variant on everything every other profession does.
Now, the revisions they're making are suited towards making the profession roles more defined, so there'll be a major reason to prefer a fencer over a swordsman in a certain situation, for example. I know no one says they want EQ in space, but I think one thing thatEQ evolved right is that encounters are challenging and group members need to know how to fulfill certain roles and follow the group leader. As it is now, groups are zergfests where no-one listens to the leader, and except in some very, very rare circumstances, you generally do better and move faster that way.
Limiting specials is one way to encourage diversity of roles and strategyin a group, and I think this is a step in the right direction. You can't tell me that AE warcry still won't be effective in a group where everyone's targeting your mark, and groups are really where the fun happens in MMORPGs. This will cause some friction with AE attacks, the pikeman's specialty, but that's good friction. It's part of the strategy you devise before you go in. Do you open with warcry right off the bat, or try to stick some AE status effects? Would it be better to divide and conquer with different groups targeting different HAM poolsor do we focus on one primary target? Right now the only strategyis applying every status effect possible immediatelyand wailing away with the best attack.
Braglor
Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:48 am
#49
Although I realize how the removal of warCry will afflict the melee classes in PvP, I often find myself not running after the kiters. It's always been my tactic to let the kiters come to me, and if they dont... well, there we are
Daros wrote:
that's effective against ranged folks besides spamming /lunge
OutbackWookiee
Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:17 am
#50
Braglor wrote:
Although I realize how the removal of warCry will afflict the melee classes in PvP, I often find myself not running after the kiters. It's always been my tactic to let the kiters come to me, and if they dont... well, there we are
Daros wrote:
that's effective against ranged folks besides spamming /lunge
LMAO!
Wow, nice tactics Braglor.
I'd love to see you employ these against a rifleman, or a bh, or a carbineer, or a pistoleer, or a noob with a cdef pistol.
No seriously. The way guys like rifleman can mess you up from pretty much any distance necessitates the need to chase the kiters.
Sad but true.
Envoy3113
Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:32 am
#51
Ya'll must have missed it, what kinda system can they put into place that will avoid following up a warcry with an auto attack? With the server latency problems I would think warcry will be sufficantly borked if you end up auto attacking your target half way through the warcry animation.
ScarletPhoenix
Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:56 pm
#52
If you only have one target and you're warcrying in battle as the opening move,you're missing the point. Warcry is supposed to be to take stragglers out of the fight now, not to take your target out of the fight. It'll also be a handy panic button, in which case you slap warcry and then hit peace. Auto attack's not that fast.