Pikeman Archive
Thread: Dot Discussion
My 2 cents...
Pikes are not the only nasty dot carrying weapons. You have gandaff sticks that pack potency, axes, carbines, rifles, pistols, knives, cleavers, knucklers...
Our problem is solely this...we have become FOTM
All there really is to it. I have dots, plenty of em, nothing over 310 through 4 lances tho. So if I'm in a fight, and I have a rifle man hit me with a T-21 that packs a 200pnt posion, then HS3's me a few times with an ion rifle...guess what...I never closed within 40 meters.
If I'm in a fight with a fencer, I'm dead without those dots. If I get crap rolls on the potency, I'm dead with em.
If I'm in a fight with a TKM, and he lands a dizzy/KD...I better hope to the SWG Gods that I'm able to stand.
End result, we are sliding the way of TK's, riflemen, pistoleers, commando's, CH, CM, and all the other professions that saw their time. As a faithful pikeman, I'm glad it took this long for the market to get saturated with these pikes...as the chances for us to be beheaded by the nerf bat are looking slim with the rebalance coming.
Bottom line, we still have no defence. Our defence to the unstacked Master Pikeman, is our enemy seeing their HAM monitor light up with posion and fire. And his need to find a doc, or water. Thats it, with out that we are done.
Our crafted weapons, are ineffective. Our defences are sub-par. The only thing that keeps us viable is our ability to switch quickly through 4 different weapons at the onset of a fight.
Personally, I don't want a battle where I sit there and whack away at the same person for 5 minutes. One of us needs to die. Some people might prefer to do that tho, so I can't knock em. All I know is when the balance hits, hopefully it is so sweeping and drastic, we all become newbs again.
Envoy3113 wrote:
All I know is when the balance hits, hopefully it is so sweeping and drastic, we all become newbs again.
Message Edited by Gunman21 on 05-24-2004 08:58 AM
antares
master pikeman
Envoy3113 wrote:
even upwards to 35-40% of the crowd at times.
That's a little exaggerated, don't you think? Yes, the numbers have increased dramatically, but how many of them do you think have novice or just polearms II? How many do you think honestly believe they are better than fencers/CM/riflemen in PvP or swordsmen in PvE? To have the kind of influx of people using the class strictly to be better, the class must be better than almost everyone at either pve or pvp. Pikeman is best at neither.
antares
master pikeman
DoT weapons have made it so that a person with polearms 2 can be just as effective in PvP as a master pikeman. Sure, they'll be slow and miss more, but after they land that DoT they can just switch back to whatever their real class is. Polearms 2 (6k polearm xp) plus enough credits to buy a great lance equals more ability than a master pikeman (3.9 million polearm xp + 415k combat xp) using the best possible crafted LVA. That's just sickening.
DoTs must be nerfed, without question. Without that we're going to have a hard time getting the attention we need in other areas.
(Pikeman for 9 months.)
) for sure now pikeman are almost everywhere because of the dot and those great lva with power damage. All those auction for millions credit for a pike weapons, thats terrible and sucks. pikeman is for those who like the profession and moves. I dont care for the dot but for sure GIVE NOW THE PIKEMAN IS TRUE STRENGHT. For sure Dots its the only reason why player try pikeman. Should be master to use these.As far as the FOTM for pikeman it all depends on server. I have seen a lot of people carrying around lances and axes lately, and it could have something to do with holo-grinding. I was a holo-grinder that ground through pikeman, absolutely loved the profession, and stopped holo-grinding to take it up. That might be happening to a lot of people. It's fun, it's different, and I enjoy the challenge.
With the balancing of pikeman, it's tough. They balance the profession to excel with crafted axes and lances, it almost inevitably sets uber god mode on the few guys that have the 1k + damage weapons. If they balance the profession, they need to balance the loots. Relying on looted lances and axes is horrible. They fall apart and what are you going to do? Spend a month hunting or fork over a few million credits to get a new one. And then if they fix NS to how difficult they are supposed to be and nerf armor, what in the world is going to happen to pikeman? Back to the two or three on the server?
Perhaps thiswould be the best route to go. Fix Pikeman to be able to be effective with crafted lances. Make the lances drop as often as they do on Nightsisters right now. Just increase the difficulty of them and/or make them a rare spawn.
I have been trying to think of ways to help out pikeman but not overpowering them. We all want to be able to excel in pvp, but this is a group game. I never go out alone. I am always with a group. I do notice the inattiquacies of pikeman, but they do help out a lot in groups. I think of ways to help it out, but it totallysets pikeman into GOD!!!!! Which would be great, but then we see tons of pikeman. I would much rather see pikeman similar to Pistoleer, or Carbineer. You dont see tons, but the ones you see, look out for.
My biggest question is, the developers say pikeman is a hybrid profession, "what is a hybrid profession in their eyes?" And "what is it a hybrid of?" What exactly do they intend Pikeman to be? How do they view the tactics of pikeman? What is our role in the "group" fighting? It has a lot of area attacks, is it a crowd control? What were they intending when making pikeman?
I only asked those because anything else we ask is going to be replied with, "combat balance will fix, wait for the combat balance, blah blah blah."
(Forgot to add, I am a pikeman of 2.5 months)
Message Edited by f33d84ck on 05-25-2004 09:35 AM
annelid0 wrote:
Pikeman isn't the FotM, poison is the FotM. If poison carbines dropped instead of poison polearms we'd see a lot more people running around with carbines. Unfortunately, with nightsisters currently being easy prey and with higher poison weapon drop rates on polearms than anything else, that results in a lot of people carrying around a lance for one hit before they switch back to their stun baton, scythe, VKs, whatever.
DoT weapons have made it so that a person with polearms 2 can be just as effective in PvP as a master pikeman. Sure, they'll be slow and miss more, but after they land that DoT they can just switch back to whatever their real class is. Polearms 2 (6k polearm xp) plus enough credits to buy a great lance equals more ability than a master pikeman (3.9 million polearm xp + 415k combat xp) using the best possible crafted LVA. That's just sickening.
DoTs must be nerfed, without question. Without that we're going to have a hard time getting the attention we need in other areas.
Very good points!
And envoy, saying 35-40% of the players are pikemen is exaggeration. Yes, the DoTs "equalize" the class, but it also enables people to basically disregard any chance for real improvements to the class because we have these looted DoTs that are so powerful and easy to come by. You say you are frustrated by the numbers of people who have become pikemen lately, then you don't get why the DoTs are becoming a problem? I'm the one who doesn't get it.
antares
master pikeman
Well, is it the dots, or the availibility of them? We all see the frenzy that insues off auctioned exceptional lances. We all know it was our saving grace. This DOES NOT by any means, relay into any of us accepting that as pacification. What I am trying to say is that I don't belive ANY DoT looted weapon should not have it's DoT nerfed. Better control, and even degredation of the dot as weapon decay is prevelant is a much more feasable solution imo.
Again, I fall back to the best PvP'ers. We have all seen how one person can go upwards of 20 minutes fighting off wave after wave of opponents. The only thing these players fear is DoT's, be it by legendary weapons, or by CM. This is not just our saving grace, it is the saving grace of many. Only issue being exceptional to legendary drops for pike weapons are far more prevelant.
Please, go back to my second post. I in no way shape or form attempted to imply 35-40% of the servers population is pike. My statement was more towards at times I can look into a crowd of people and 35-40% of that crowd at that time has a pike out, or has a pike tag, or both. You might not call it FOTM, but tactics prevail. And if you are a meele based PvP'er and are going to close in on a target, nowadays, if that target has a pike out you think twice. Therefor that accounts for many more that have one sitting, hotkeyed, waiting in their inventory. This is what I see, and what I know. Again, I DID NOT imply that 35-40% of the server has gone pike, if that were the case where would all the ID's be?
As simple as it is, I don't agree with nerfing DoT's on weapons. Balancing the economy, reducing drops, and fixing deficancys and redundancys in the professions should be the focus.
As for my FOTM statement which I'm being lynched for. FOTM tendancys, to call it that, is the migration of people looking for the easiest path in becoming a viable combatant. Regardless of how many boxes, absent of the number of people that show the tag, and besides the fact that other professions are primary...Being able to weild and inflict a DoT with a exceptional, to legendary lance is the easiest and most non intrusive method to gain clout and effeciancy in PvP at the moment. This is after all why we are having this discussion is it not?
Message Edited by Envoy3113 on 05-24-2004 02:25 PM