Pikeman Archive

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

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Astute wrote:

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Gunman21 wrote:

I had a focus thread on dots a few weeks ago and the concensus was that they need to be nerfed.

Our profession has taken a wrong turn because of the dots. Pikeman (or any other profession for that matter) shouldn't be about who spends the most credits orwho spends the most time killing nightsisters toobtain that uber lance that's going to make them the uber pvp player of thier server.

Our profession has some big problems, but leaning on dotsisn't the right answer.

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Untill they give us more inert defenses, and give us a viable weaponoption to pvp with, (My 1076 max lva is only good on ranged) leaning on dots is the right answer. Anything less makes us worthless.

Message Edited by Astute on 07-21-2004 05:12 PM

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If you need to rely on DOTs as the only reason why you are a pikeman, then perhaps you should find a different profession. I would suggest combat medic if you want DOTs.

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Message Edited by Astute on 07-21-2004 06:00 PM

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Astute wrote:

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

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Astute wrote:

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Gunman21 wrote:

I had a focus thread on dots a few weeks ago and the concensus was that they need to be nerfed.

Our profession has taken a wrong turn because of the dots. Pikeman (or any other profession for that matter) shouldn't be about who spends the most credits orwho spends the most time killing nightsisters toobtain that uber lance that's going to make them the uber pvp player of thier server.

Our profession has some big problems, but leaning on dotsisn't the right answer.

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Untill they give us more inert defenses, and give us a viable weaponoption to pvp with, (My 1076 max lva is only good on ranged) leaning on dots is the right answer. Anything less makes us worthless.

Message Edited by Astute on 07-21-2004 05:12 PM

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If you need to rely on DOTs as the only reason why you are a pikeman, then perhaps you should find a different profession. I would suggest combat medic if you want DOTs.

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I like pikemen, I don't like not damaging my opponent. Dotsare the only usefull way for me to do damage, doing damage is the only way to kill someone. Without dotsI do nezt to no damage unlessI switch to my rifle. I never said I liked using dots, I said untill they give us something else, dots are all we have. It is the truth

Message Edited by Astute on 07-21-2004 06:00 PM

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I agree, with Astute. I think it comes down to Pikeman who PVP vs. PVE types. Dots are not really useful for PVE and thus you guys feel like all these FOTM Pikeman are stepping on your toes because of DOTS, for which you really have no use for. That's fine, but if you PVP with pike, you have to have dots. On my server (which I assume most of them are the same) your pvp oppenent will have armor with 90% resists to whichever pike damage you want to use, you stack the PVP reduction of 75%, with a PSG that will reduce damage another 50% or more, and any decent player will have you intimidated which will stack another 50% damage reduction on top of that. So it's, 90% + 75% + 50% + 50% damage reductions, then you add in food, which will do a 45% reduction over a fairly long period of time, you see the problem. A 1000 point hit would be hitting for about 4 points damage. And that damage is to a random pool, or action which a novice medic can heal faster than any pikeman can dishout. Maybe if we could do mind damage then we could eventually wear an oppenent down, but that is even doubtful. I don't like dots in this game, I wish they were all removed but that's not going to happen and you can see what happens when you remove them for pikemen, it really becomes just a PVE profession, same as CH, which might be fine with some of you, but not with a lot of us.

Maxximus

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maxximusmarshallias wrote:

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Astute wrote:

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

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Astute wrote:

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Gunman21 wrote:

I had a focus thread on dots a few weeks ago and the concensus was that they need to be nerfed.

Our profession has taken a wrong turn because of the dots. Pikeman (or any other profession for that matter) shouldn't be about who spends the most credits orwho spends the most time killing nightsisters toobtain that uber lance that's going to make them the uber pvp player of thier server.

Our profession has some big problems, but leaning on dotsisn't the right answer.

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Untill they give us more inert defenses, and give us a viable weaponoption to pvp with, (My 1076 max lva is only good on ranged) leaning on dots is the right answer. Anything less makes us worthless.

Message Edited by Astute on 07-21-2004 05:12 PM

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If you need to rely on DOTs as the only reason why you are a pikeman, then perhaps you should find a different profession. I would suggest combat medic if you want DOTs.

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I like pikemen, I don't like not damaging my opponent. Dotsare the only usefull way for me to do damage, doing damage is the only way to kill someone. Without dotsI do nezt to no damage unlessI switch to my rifle. I never said I liked using dots, I said untill they give us something else, dots are all we have. It is the truth

Message Edited by Astute on 07-21-2004 06:00 PM

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I agree, with Astute. I think it comes down to Pikeman who PVP vs. PVE types. Dots are not really useful for PVE and thus you guys feel like all these FOTM Pikeman are stepping on your toes because of DOTS, for which you really have no use for. That's fine, but if you PVP with pike, you have to have dots. On my server (which I assume most of them are the same) your pvp oppenent will have armor with 90% resists to whichever pike damage you want to use, you stack the PVP reduction of 75%, with a PSG that will reduce damage another 50% or more, and any decent player will have you intimidated which will stack another 50% damage reduction on top of that. So it's, 90% + 75% + 50% + 50% damage reductions, then you add in food, which will do a 45% reduction over a fairly long period of time, you see the problem. A 1000 point hit would be hitting for about 4 points damage. And that damage is to a random pool, or action which a novice medic can heal faster than any pikeman can dishout. Maybe if we could do mind damage then we could eventually wear an oppenent down, but that is even doubtful. I don't like dots in this game, I wish they were all removed but that's not going to happen and you can see what happens when you remove them for pikemen, it really becomes just a PVE profession, same as CH, which might be fine with some of you, but not with a lot of us.Maxximus

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Finally a well written response, it truly is a pve profession without dots. I hav been pikemen the longest, and I didn't go pikemen because I have some "uber" dots. Those dots are the only thing that let me pvp with a chance.

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

2 points here, and they both concern reading the original post which started this thing. First of all, Gunman never said "stop drops of DOT lances completely", he said "tone them down". In other words, with the frequency of DOT lance drops, pikeman is quickly turning into part of the FOTM template. There are plenty of pikemen who do pvp without the use of DOTs,(Good for them, I don't know what kind of people they are fighting, but if they were fighting on my server, they would be easy pvp raiting.)I fight along side of them regularly. The point is that DOT lances should not be the end all be all of pikeman profession. (As it is right now, it should be. In a perfect world where everything is balalanced of coursethey shouldn't be, but lets be realistic, right now dots are all we have.) As it is now with the FOTM/mini-cm reputation, people are getting this profession and stacking it with others to be "uber".(So what, this happens with many proffesion, and these "uber" lances are not droping that often.)I see nothing wrong with Gunman's request to tone down the frequency of these drops in order to keep the pikemen who want to be pikemen in the profession without a false label put on them.(Neither do I as long as we get theseboost at the same time, and they balance out things.)The rest, they can do find something else to dabble in for all I care.

Second, there was more to what Gunman said besides toning down the DOT lance drops:

"I've asked for the toughness mods to be increased, the damage on hit3 to be increased, to have at least 1 positive accuracy mod on the lva and vl, abeefage in stats for the energy lance, an increase in axkva min's spawn rate, and a slight reduction in axkva min's resistances."

There you have it, more toughness, more damage, more accuracy, better stats on the NSEL, and more availability to obtain the NSEL.(Yay?) Is this worth losing some of the frequency of the DOT drops? To me it is. Now as for the next excuse (Excuse? This is a reality.)about 75% pvp reduction, mitigation 3, high end armor, buffs, PSG etc. TK gets the same type of damage as our lance (not vibro) and LVA. (Yea they do, but they also get good defenses, a mind hit,accurate specials, lower mitigation reduction, etc)Since they get the same penalty, shouldn't TK get DOT weapons too? (No, they can still do enough damage with theprofession and their remaining points, where when we spend out points somewhere else,while when we do this and if we refused to use dot weapons, we would be wasting all the points in pikeman, except mabey for the statedefense we get, which still are not worth the points.) For that matter, why don't we make every kinetic weapon in the game have a DOT? (It seems to me the weapon change delay is a fine adjust for pikemen dots, and I really have no problem with them right now since our profession sucks so much without them.)

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-.^

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StikerRunningfly wrote:

First of all, Gunman never said "stop drops of DOT lances completely", he said "tone them down". He never said drops, he said tune pike dots down, which would mean damage.

Second, there was more to what Gunman said besides toning down the DOT lance drops: Secondly, I'm not talking about other things besides tuning down pike dots, the exact title of this thread.

And look to see which requests are for PVP or PVE:

"I've asked for the toughness mods to be increased (Both), the damage on hit3 to be increased (PVE, hit3 has a posture down affect that messes things up when someone is knockdowned, also it's too random pools, not desirable for PVP), to have at least 1 positive accuracy mod on the lva and vl (Both), abeefage in stats for the energy lance (PVE, energy does nothing in PVP), an increase in axkva min's spawn rate (PVE), and a slight reduction in axkva min's resistances(PVE)."

From what I understand they are throwing us some bones for delaying the combat balance, well PVE is not combat, and most of the above changes have nothing to do with combat balance.

Now as for the next excuse about 75% pvp reduction, mitigation 3, high end armor, buffs, PSG etc. TK gets the same type of damage as our lance (not vibro) and LVA. Since they get the same penalty, shouldn't TK get DOT weapons too? For that matter, why don't we make every kinetic weapon in the game have a DOT?

All professions have dot weapons, and yes there are dot VK's that aren't that rare, not as common as pikes, but not hard to find either. I have personally been hit with dot axes (2-hand), knives (fencer), vk's (unarmed), carbines, pistols, and rifles... with the last 3 hitting me from about 50 meters. Again I'm not against a total across the board of dot reductions for all weapons, but we need something that can do some damage in PVP before that goes into affect.

Maxximus

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Message Edited by Gunman21 on 07-21-2004 08:10 PM

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Gunman21 wrote:

Either through innoculations, area cures, dot nerfage, or any other way the devs feel like, the dots are going to be hit by a nerf bat (even if they don't touch our lances).

So if you are relying on dots....you might want to have something to fall back on.

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The thing is what do you want us to fall back on gun? Our 100 dps lvas before armor/mitigation/food? Unless all of this **edit** comes at the same time pikemen will suck, even more than it does now.

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station1 wrote:

All I can say is carefull what you wish for. The Dev response may not be what you think.

Many Commandos were calling for a self-nerf to the flameand all other DOTs a while back, and look what happened. Got totally Fubar-ed, Deliverance style. Rendered completely useless in PvP. If only they would just remove DOTs altogether.

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Yes, but that's not permanent. Garvin's working to get commandos some really great stuff.