Pikeman Archive
Thread: Sword Flurry vs Impale discussion
If we make this switch, we would effect all of us who are pure Pike/Doctors and Pike/TK for the worse in a bad way. Do we really want to do that ? If you are already a swordsman, then you dont care about the switch, because you have flurry (which you never use) anyhow...
Fantastic thing about pike is how versatile it is, we have area attack and knockdows, high dmg attack (impale), warcry/intim (need work granted). Let us concentrate on improving things that are broken and not try to gimp ourselves out of our BEST attack.
Message Edited by Martimus on 06-02-2005 01:53 PM
Message Edited by Martimus on 06-02-2005 01:56 PM
with COB turned on, you're capped for defense.
Sword flurry is useless with cob on and does very low dmg.
parry ripost is the same -
trading impale would be a sin!
This discussion is just that, a discussion, there's no underlying threats or anything like thatto the profession to be worried about.
Martimus wrote:
Ok... Let me rephrase this another way. If you do not have any sword in your template... What exactly will you do good dmg with, if impale is gone ?
Pikeman is about tanking, not dealing damage.
Just ask any TK what happened when they got rid of high dmg attacks.. They made it a pure support profession. People take TK to add defense to their mix. I tried TK/Doctor template, and it was very ineffective ... My def was good, and I could heal myself, but it took me forever to kill anything.
Which means your role was working properly. If you're outdamaging a swordsman or fencer as a tank, without any damage dealing professions, something's wrong
If we make this switch, we would effect all of us who are pure Pike/Doctors and Pike/TK for the worse in a bad way. Do we really want to do that ? If you are already a swordsman, then you dont care about the switch, because you have flurry (which you never use) anyhow...
Professions arn't designed to be "all-in-one" anymore. They're intended to be stacked to make up for intended weaknesses between professions. We're supposed to modify opponents to tankand do some minor crowd control, not run around dealing high amount of damage.
Fantastic thing about pike is how versatile it is, we have area attack and knockdows, high dmg attack (impale), warcry/intim (need work granted). Let us concentrate on improving things that are broken and not try to gimp ourselves out of our BEST attack.
It's all about balance. That's something I've always wanted to achieve. The attack isn't overpowered, but you know we're not supposed to be outdamaging swordsman/fencer, yet we do. That's telling me something doesn't fit right.
Message Edited by SWG_Perkins on 06-03-2005 02:36 PM
In comparing the fencer damage vs. pikeman damage, are you using a pretty good fencer weapon (i.e. on a par with the pike you used)?
Is it possible that you had a much better pike weapon than what you're using as fencer?
XrioT wrote:
Agreed. As I stated in a post above, i'm stuck with m.fencer now instead of my intended m.pike, and I could easily deal more damage as a pikeman than I can as fencer; not to mention defense is higher as well. With the TKM/M.Pike temp I could tank 2-3 lvl 80-82 mobs no problem, and take them out just as fast if not faster thanmy well equipped TKM/fencer counterpart, although now with the lacking defense im resorting to only managing no more than 2 of these mobs at a time, and taking just as long to kill them.
Although I still think impale shouldn't be changed or swapped out for something else, it is quite contradictory to the role pikeman are supposed to have.
SWG_Perkins wrote:
Again, we do not outdamage Swordsman or Fencer, if our highest-damage attack has lower damage than theirs does.
Comparing Improved Impale with Improved Sword Flurry is an invalid comparison, since Swordsman has a higher-damage attack than Improved Flurry.
Are you suggesting that Improved Impale should have lower damage than any of the swordsman attacks?
I'm not intending any disrespect here. I'm just trying to say that it's important to compare likes (their highest damageattackvs. our highest damageattack, etc).
Message Edited by SWG_Perkins on 06-03-2005 02:36 PM
The only swordsattack that I've seen deal higher dmg than imp impale was when critical shot hit. But that only has a 25% chance of doing a crit, so imp impale outdamages it in the long run.
Once I get a chance to relax from the past week of 12 hour homework/project days I'll get on and do some testing for numbers 
Message Edited by Gunman21 on 06-03-2005 11:54 AM
Gunman21 wrote:Martimus wrote:
Ok... Let me rephrase this another way. If you do not have any sword in your template... What exactly will you do good dmg with, if impale is gone ?Pikeman is about tanking, not dealing damage.
Just ask any TK what happened when they got rid of high dmg attacks.. They made it a pure support profession. People take TK to add defense to their mix. I tried TK/Doctor template, and it was very ineffective ... My def was good, and I could heal myself, but it took me forever to kill anything.
Which means your role was working properly. If you're outdamaging a swordsman or fencer as a tank, without any damage dealing professions, something's wrong
If we make this switch, we would effect all of us who are pure Pike/Doctors and Pike/TK for the worse in a bad way. Do we really want to do that ? If you are already a swordsman, then you dont care about the switch, because you have flurry (which you never use) anyhow...
Professions arn't designed to be "all-in-one" anymore. They're intended to be stacked to make up for intended weaknesses between professions. We're supposed to modify opponents to tankand do some minor crowd control, not run around dealing high amount of damage.
Fantastic thing about pike is how versatile it is, we have area attack and knockdows, high dmg attack (impale), warcry/intim (need work granted). Let us concentrate on improving things that are broken and not try to gimp ourselves out of our BEST attack.It's all about balance. That's something I've always wanted to achieve. The attack isn't overpowered, but you know we're not supposed to be outdamaging swordsman/fencer, yet we do. That's telling me something doesn't fit right.
This discussion is just that, a discussion, there's no underlying threats or anything like thatto the profession to be worried about.
Ok... Let me just start by saying that this thread is beginning to sound like something from a Jedi forum... We are complaining that we have an attack that does good DMG...WTH!!!! ...we are on a quest to SELF NERF ourselves. No offence, but as a corespondent you should be looking after best interest of OUR profession...and taking away our best attack ...well.. is not it !!
We will never come close to out damaging sword... Combination of Armor break (which will be fixed and even better very soon) Power attack and Critical attack can not be touched by anything we do as a pikeman. Impale attack is second most powerful attack, yet it is only one attack. It is a combination of sword attacks and a high powered kinetic master lvl weapon (ph), which makes them the highest dmg dealer... Its not about one attack... If you play your msword right, there is absolutely no way you can be outdamaged by a pikeman....I tested both extensively, and liked pikeman at the end because of how versatile it is, not because it deals more dmg. You may be losing perspective on this because you have a SWORD in your template already and take those attacks for granted. If you want everyone here to be msword/mpike then this is a non issue.
If Fencers or Swordman or Jedi or any of the Three Stooges have a problem with pikeman dealing more dmg, they should bring it up to their corespondent on their forums, and it should become their issue and not ours.I will support you in anything you do to make pikeman a better and stronger profession, but this is not leading us in the right direction.
I have to agree with Martimus. If we have a good damage attack and the other guys don't likeit, they can take it up with their correspondent. Also, just because we have attack that may not be suiting to our role, other professions have them. A perfect example would be BH and sprayshot... BH is a one on one fighter yetthey have a AoE. Is there anything wrong with that: no. The point is, they only have one. We have only one damage attack... I doubt we are taking away from the roles of other professions.
Yesterday I was playing with a friend and tanking quite well with COB, intimidate, warcry, and stunning blow. I was too busy trying to control damage output by the MOBs and keep 'em under control to really outdamage my BH friend. Impale is just to help us finish off opponents. Well, taht's my two cents.
I want ours to be usefull.