CUEmu - Thread Posts

Gunman21

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:22 pm

Martimus wrote:

Ok... Let me just start by saying that this thread is beginning to sound like something from a Jedi forum... We are complaining that we have an attack that does good DMG...WTH!!!! ...we are on a quest to SELF NERF ourselves. No offence, but as a corespondent you should be looking after best interest of OUR profession...and taking away our best attack ...well.. is not it !!

If Fencers or Swordman or Jedi or any of the Three Stooges have a problem with pikeman dealing more dmg, they should bring it up to their corespondent on their forums, and it should become their issue and not ours.I will support you in anything you do to make pikeman a better and stronger profession, but this is not leading us in the right direction.

My job as correspondent is to report community issues, concerns, and ideas to the developers.

If I notice something that is out of place, overbalanced, or just has issues, I report it. My focus as correspondent is to make sure the community is well represented, and 2) Make sure pikeman is extremely well balanced and fun to play. Note: fun does not mean u83r.I look at things in the overall picture and keep balance in mind at every step of the way, not just from the "does this make pikeman better" mentality.

Those players that were here for the pre-KD-nerf know what I'm talking about. The KD nerf hit pikeman hard, but everyone now knows that it was absolutely needed and was the right thing to do even though it impacted us in such ahorrible way.

Do not get me wrong, I am always looking for ways I can communicate to the devs to improve pikeman. Such as intimidate/warcry improvement ideas from the other thread that I've passed along. But I will not "look past" an overpowered item or something that doesn't fit within our profession. Balance and roles are very important to me. Just as I wouldn't want other professions stepping on pikeman toes, I don't want pikeman stepping on other profession toes.

Now, if this discussion that was opened had indeed been true, I would have sent it on to the devs in a heartbeat. But, it did not turn out to be true (results to be posted soon) so it's a non issue. For the future, I will always open discussions on issues for both things that need improvements in pikeman and things that need to be re-balanced if they are deemed overpowered. They are just *discussions*, because like we see with this issue, discssing can sometimes lead to a better understanding and realization that something does indeed fit and isn't overpowered.

Message Edited by Gunman21 on 06-03-2005 07:38 PM

Aidelon Kejaci
Legends Among Warriors
Former pikeman correspondent December 2003 - August 2005.

R.I.P. Pikeman!

Gunman21

Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:27 pm

#28

Here are the results from testing. Intimidate was not used, as Armor break wasn't either.

The results show that Critical strike has the damage damage modifier as improved impale, not including when the *critical* actually lands. Powerstrike alsohas a higher modifier than improved impale.

The green color is just to help differentiate the rows, and has no meaning to this chart.

The first collumn is actual damage, 2nd collumn is damage absorbed, 3rd collumn is total possible damage.

Powerhammer

497-1015
499 modified DPS

Impale496468 965
Leghit413390804
Headhit468442911
Critical 496468965
Power5234941018

Nightsister Energy Lance

321-805 damage
453.11 modified

Impale360339700
Leghit299283583
Headhit340321662
Critical360339700
Power380358739

Vibro Lance

486-978 damage
534.88 modified

Impale469443913
Leghit391360761
Headhit443419863
Critical469443913
Power495468964

A big Thank you to ZagaSabin, for helping me test this.

Message Edited by Gunman21 on 06-03-2005 07:30 PM

Aidelon Kejaci
Legends Among Warriors
Former pikeman correspondent December 2003 - August 2005.

R.I.P. Pikeman!

Martimus

Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:51 pm

#29

I apologise If i came too strong in my last post. I find your idealistic approach to things refreshing. I know that other prof corespondents would not care about pike in a situation like this. Other professions are very good at pointing fingers when someone elses skills are overpowered , and I felt that we didnt need this from you as well.

I got to like pike quite a bit, and enjoy playing with my current combination of skills. Like many others with no sword skills we rely on impale as our principal strong attack, so naturally I was upset when we started talking about getting rid of it. I am glad that this issue seems to be resolved.

"If it aint broken, fix it until it is! (nge)"

Skill based system, turn based combat, Teras Kasi, Creature Handler, 
Ranger, BioEnginer, Swordsman, Fencer, Pikeman, Brawler, Riflemen, 
Pistoleer, Carbineer, Scout. Skill, true Jedi, working economy, crafter 
and entertainers that matter, professional interdependence. People, 
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SWG_Perkins

Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:07 am

#30

That'll be cool.

I'd try it myself if the respec period wasn't finished.

I guessmight be good to note how long the cooldown timer is on Improved Impale vs. other swords attacks.

Also, do you know how pikeman damage compares to that of Pistoleer (supposed to be the same damage level as pikes, according to the CU documentation, that being level 2)? Seems like when out in PVE, I routinely get outdamaged by pistoleers.

I always wondered why the devs decided that pikes should have such a low damage output role, and that fencers should have poor defense. Anyone who fences, or has seen a fencer in action, will know that a fencer has anything but poor defensive fighting skills.

Gunman21 wrote:

Once I get a chance to relax from the past week of 12 hour homework/project days I'll get on and do some testing for numbers

Message Edited by Gunman21 on 06-03-2005 11:54 AM

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XrioT

Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:23 am

#31

Yea i wondered that as well when they mentioned Fencer's would be the damage dealers and pikeman being more defensive. Seems like roles should be swapped and fencers should still have a lot of dodge ability like they did pre-CU.

But in answer to your question; my fencer weapon is better than my VL, but my actual results are based on two different methods

1) I use unnarmed attack as a basis to judge the damage of attack skills.

2) I respec to fencer and use the best fencer weapon available to me, then respec to pikeman to use the best pike available. Although this test is less accurate do to a variance between weapons; my sword is a kashyyyk loot weapon that is one of the best. xxx-1040dmg (dont remember min.. mid 500's i think) with 530DPS; my VL is almost 500DPS with around 970 max dmg.

Anyway, the sword does not have a m.fencer cert so I can use it with pikeman as well, and vice versa concerning the VL.

unarmed

Impale > any of the fencer attacks

with pike in hand

Impale > any fencer attack (as it should be i suppose)

with the sword in hand

Impale > any fencer attack

Now given that the sword drops to around 505DPS when i am m.pike instead of 530's when i'm m.fencer, I can attack quite a bit faster with it as fencer, but against CL 65+ mobs, I do mid 1400's damage with an armor break/knockdown using the best fencer attack skill with the sword in hand, and I do over 1700 damage with an armor break/knockdown using the Impale with the sword in hand.

I suppose i should have written down more details while testing, but I was selfish and only doing the tests for my own benefit at the time

Kyodor

Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:03 am

#32

Imaple does have a very high modifier, and it is a powerful attack.

If Pikeman was to lose Impale, I'd like to see Warcry get a boost, seems it's not a very proficient attack right now.

Message Edited by Kyodor on 06-04-2005 11:06 AM

Logic
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RizzyUK

Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:10 pm

#33

I like the way impale works atm thanks very much .

This might help to explain why I feel this way.

If you look at the CU Combat schmatic we fall into the group of tanks . Now correct me if I'm wrong but to be a tank with the way the hate system of mobs works if we dont have an attack that can deal a valid amount of damage then we would loose the aggro and then fail to forefill the role of tank.

I understand that we have some nice modifing attacks ( just wish warcry would work correctly )but without a reasonable rated damage attack we wouldn't be able to tank affectivly. Also when comparing impale with the swords attacks youmust take into account the effect that armour brake has to improve there attacks . Adding this attack ( AB ) prior to any of thierheavy strikes will always out damage the pikes impale

Ingame Name = Zoci

Zilod

Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:16 am

#34

Impale do a very good damage, more than most swords attacks but swordsman have armor break to boost his damage (when fixed so that higher level versions will be more effective)

considering that impale for me is a good special to make pike viable even in offence, if sword will have damage buffs, defence debuffs and best special damage there is the risk that it will make other professions obsolete.

a similar consideration can be made for sword and flurry, it have not good defence skills (or stats) so a skill like that is suppose to help it a bit on defence

I'm more for this kind of vision, mixing skills in various professions, this way for example a pikeman can chose to master even swordsman for a very offensive template (AB, damage buff, impale, AOE) but still have some defence skills to use, or can chose for example TKA for a very defensive template, but still be able to put out some nice damage with impale or AOE.

kudil

Sun Jun 05, 2005 6:29 am

#35

I dont really understand in what world you would want to trade impale with flurry. Flurry is pathetic as most melee people have TKM and a good COB to deal with defense. Impale does less damage then the better swordsman attacks but with a good VLA you can deal enough damage to make you worthy in PvE and PvP. Damage wise and special was i dont really see anything that needs to be changed.

The only thing i think we needs is Knockdown Efficiency Skill Mod that dictates how long the opponent cannot get up for (combined with a dizzy so they understand the reasoning behind the message that would appear on their screen)

vonbloodworth

Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:20 am

#36

OK, Why all the sudden am i seeing people say "Pikemen is suposed to be used with other professions to be viable".

What is this BS? Your telling me that just a single profession toon that masters only pikemen should have gemped skills becouse your suposed to have other classes to be some form of usefull?

ANY testing of this profession and ANY comparsion between other professions should only be done, and should only include skill granted by that profession. Peroid.

None of this "Pkkeman is great, as long as you have master TKM", cuse thats just BS.

As to this topic.
I dont want skills from other classes, EVER, i want unique skills for our class that are usefull and effective, ALONE and not required to be backed up by some other skill set.

2c

Trucegore vonbloodworth,wonderhome
Mayor/guild master

Pikeman, Polition, Merchant,Master Artisan
***** Im easy to talk to once people get to know me, but holding my personal audiences on a throne of bloody skulls tends to put them off at first. *****

raider7734

Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:06 pm

#37

Sword Flurry would help Pikeman's defense, but it doesn't seem to fit yourCU role description:

Profession Mixing Tip: The Pikeman tanking ability is mostly based in their abilities reduce an opponent's ability to deliver damage.

To me, that means things like Intimidate and Warcry should be the basis of Pikeman's tanking. If this isn't the case,then those skills need reworking or improvement, ie Intimidate should be an area effect & 2nd onlyto CoB for its ability to let you tank stuff.

Swordsman already has three high-multiplier attacks, another one would be redundant. Although if Impale & Flurry were switched, I don't think any 2H'ers would complain, even tho Flurryis the one thing that makes Swordsa '3' for defense. I mean everyone is aware thatImproved CoB caps your defense, so thatFlurry provides no added damage reduction, right? CoB on= you are tough, CoB off = youtakea severe beating,Flurry = a useless, very short-term defense buff.

----------
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maxximusmarshallias

Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:39 pm

#38

Now, if this discussion that was opened had indeed been true, I would have sent it on to the devs in a heartbeat. But, it did not turn out to be true (results to be posted soon) so it's a non issue.

Aidelon Kejaci
Legends Among Warriors
Visit the Pikeman Information Website at: www.freewebs.com/aid

Maybe as the Pikeman Correspondent you shouldn't bring up subjects that are non-issues. A waste of time. Do the research first.

XwingRogue3

Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:47 am

#39

Keep our impale as is. In fact it's probably one of the best attacks we have. I have sword flurry but don't use it because I have other specials that I find more effective.

Kylos - Your friendly neighborhood Mon Calamari

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Thread: Sword Flurry vs Impale discussion