Musician Archive
Thread: A Cvil request as to exactly how buffbots hut *you* as a player?
Etdentarie wrote:
Not trying to rain on your parade Jrock but according to SOETyrant the recursive macros will be removed for sure.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=entertainer&message.id=13370
That's not a link to the actual thread he posted in, but it's a link to a thread which has everything he said quoted. It's easier than having to look through the very long thread for his three posts. If you do want to read the original post it's in the dancer forum. The title is something along the lines of 'I asked... and got my answer =('
Anyway, like I said I'm not trying to rub it in your face or anything, I just thought it would be something that interested you.
I am not trying to flame or anything ... but SOE has said they are "going to do" alot of stuff in the past that has never happened. If you think the outcry from ATK entertainers is bad now, when they do remove such macros you will see every profession in the game in an uproar (including entertainers that like AFK play)
Last time that happened was during the crafting "upgrade". It was put it and taken out within days, never to be seen again. I cannot even remember what they had changed, but I know over 90% of the community was furious and they reverted the system.
I truely do hope somehow they can make you guys happy without hurting everyone else.
Heyno problem
Fragpuppie wrote:
I stand corrected.
As I do not play on Tempest and, from the understanding I get from your and JRock's posts, my playstyle is not preferred on Tempest, I do not read their forum. Thank you for the correction. I apologise.
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Guild Leader - Performer United Professional Society (PUPS)
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
Contact S'ita for bookings
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
It's not going to ruin the game, it's just going to make people have to rely on others again. The way I see it, until the CU comes out and we see what they've done with buffs this is a moot argument. No sense yelling at each other when we don't even know what's going on.
There are three reasons to play an entertainer.
1) Purpose: We are non-direct combat support. We heal an up and buff combatant, that is the game mechanic.
2) Socialisation: We are supposed to be the social play styles. We for the most part like chatting with others.
3) Art: the music we play, or dances we perform is our art, a means of expression. And like all art it is mend to be viewed.
Fellow Live entertainer removes from our purpose, but in return increase interaction, and adds to our art.
Buffbots and macrotainers removes from our purpose, and give nothing in return. In addition, the buffbots and macrotainers, do not even enjoy the purpose they take from us... they are not there at all.
Etdentarie wrote:
They're not going to completely take out macros. From my understanding they are simply taking out recursive macros. SO the only people it hurts are the people who don't actually play their characters anyways. Look, I have no problem with you guys helping out your guild. That's great. But if you need to have a bot account only bring it on when it's needed. Give the buffs then log back out.
It's not going to ruin the game, it's just going to make people have to rely on others again. The way I see it, until the CU comes out and we see what they've done with buffs this is a moot argument. No sense yelling at each other when we don't even know what's going on.
Many other classes besides entertainer and doctor buff bots use recursive macros. Crafters with crafting, combat with attacks/center, squad leader with group commands and so on....
When recursive macros are taken out,SOE will here the cries ofmillions ofplayers instead of a group of ATK entertainers. Perhaps that why they have done nothing yet. With all the new games coming out, they have to compete for the $15 a month more than anything.
I personally dont think its going to happen, and if it does, it wont last long. I think with everyone's help and ideas they will come up with a way to make your playtime far better without removing them. Just my opinion though.
PoetDancer wrote:
No JRock, this proposal screws many players over. It screws the player who sets an unattended musician/dancer alt getting income from players to get on a /join list. It screws the player who sets an unattended musician/dancer alt by putting the buffbot in a house with an entrance fee. It screws a lot of the methods that buffbot owners use to manipulate who can and cannot receive mechanics from them, and limits their ability to make setting an unattended character a cash making proposition. That is what I want to stop over anything else.
Becauseeven though I think setting an unattended character is lazy andmost obtuse, Ican somewhat sympathize with a player who says they need to set an entertainer alt for the purposes of getting the mechanics. What I have absolutely no sympathy for is the fellow who came on these boards boasting about the money he makes by running the buffbot. Because I feel that a player has no right to profit from something that the system administers in lieu of play. Because honestly. If these things were really as valuable as players say they are, I would like to think that they would require more than allowing the robust macro system to administer these things for the entertainer who lets the system govern who it does and does not service.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 11-08-2004 12:34 PM
The only reason I have made any profit from my buff-bot is simply because players choose to tip me. He stand in a cantina AFK all day, so there is no way I can force people to pay me. I have gotten over a 90% approval rating on my server and most people say he is a community benifit (thats the only reason Ive made so much)
Check this out:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Tempest&message.id=204915
Truth is ATK entertainers are a minority. Alot of the people on this board seem to want to change to world (swg) so you can have things "your way". At one time I was quite open to the discussion, but if anyone comes here pro-bot in any way, shape or form you guys act like they are some kind of "bad guy". If you dont like buff-bots ignore them. If you want to talk to someone, talk to them. I dont even play my entertainerand I am busy talking, joking, and having a good time with people all day long. Somehow people got confused in the fact "the cantina is the place to hang out" which is twisted and wrong. There are many places to hang out and many things to to.
All the minority is trying to do isruin the majority prefrence of the game mechanics simply because they dont fita specific playstyle. Well I tell you, find another game. Go play SimS. Just understand if somehow this was ever to come to a vote"taking away macros" would crash and burn.
Baciacca wrote:
Let's roll with this idea, everybody who has been involved in this discussion should give their input.
Nothing I'd like better, JRock. But I remember the last time I suggested tearing down the barriers between "/listen" and "/listen with buff," andgot a lotofapprehensionfrom my ATK peers. Here's a few of the posts where I have suggested this sort of apprach:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=entertainer&message.id=11087#M11087
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dancer&message.id=27694#M27694
The fears were all the same, and the spin on the profession was all the same.Many felt that these professions were about selling buffs, and if we couldn't make "/" commands limited, exclusive, and subject to a tip, thenwe would never get tipped.Many were resentful to buffbots and to players like me because we just gave away the "/" commands. But like you said, audiences are still getting these things systematically for free. And I have to believe that the reason they are is because entertainer buffs are things that do not naturally lend themselves to be exclusive and subject to payment.
But why on Corellia would we as live players even think that these things were the basis of our value as entertainers when it requires absolutely no effort to give? Which made me think to myself, "how didwe ever survive in the old days before buffs?" Because do you want to know what I have learned by playing these professions JRock? Any attempt to justify why one should get tipped merely for skill-animating will make one hated, not loved. Its why audiences like buffbots and why they like me and those like me, because we aren't so stingy with the things we give that costs us nothing to give. Becausewe never considered the possibility that if the things we are tipped for are simple "/" commands, then any old lot mule who gives them out is worthy of a tip.
And what many ofus simply don't want to realize is thatour emphasis on selling the buff as an exclusive commodity has turned the profession on its head, and gave everyone the impression that this class is not about amusement, but simple buff distribution. And that is not an enhancement to those live players who put in the effort to be amusing, that is a serious nerf to those live players who work hard to be amusing. Because nobody needs to be amusing to give out a "/" command.
And yet, I received serious criticism from my ATK peers for even suggesting that buffs should not require a /setperform or /invite, like I wanted to nerfus even more. But I didn't suggest these things to nerf us, I suggested these things because I feel it may be the only way to get patrons less worried about getting the buff, and more concerned with seeing, appreciating, and tipping the ambiance that is already there. I want to bring the game back to the care free and easy environment we had at launch, when the things we gave in the cantina were so intuitive and simple that patrons were free to enjoy the experience for what it was, rather than be blind to the experience because they were always filled with fear and apprehention that they wouldn't receive what they go to the cantina to get.
If I even thought for a moment that my suggestions on making buffs wholly passive would hurt live players, I would never suggest it. In fact, I feel it is the only way to save the live game. And when I look around and see threads from we live players wanting to take away the buff entirely, I have to wonder why don't we just make buffs not a consideration of the musician or dancer anymore by making it purely passive? Put it in the patron's hands, because that's where it really mostly is at, and where it should be. Its such a simple change, and it will not make the live game any worse than it is now, and it might make things better overall. If I'm wrong? We can always change something else. But I don't think I'm wrong.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 11-09-2004 11:53 AM
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 11-10-2004 01:15 AM
Message Edited by Drygo on 11-09-2004 10:39 AM
MusicalDina wrote:
MY question to you is WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO COMPETE WITH SOMEBODY THAT ISNT EVEN PLAYING THEIR TOON?
Oh ya, and buff bots suck.
I hates them worse then macro-meatlump-murderers and afk loot-campers and they make me grumpy and the cantina unenjoyable. Thats how they hurt me. Keep 'em hidden away in yer own darn cantina.Seriously, out of my entire experience of the game I think dancer and musicans use the most recursive macros for legitimate reasons. More so than any other profession. The fact that they are willing and even eager to give up this valuable tool in order to get rid of bots shows you just how much bots (and afk zombies may they all burn mwahahahaha!) must be hurting them.
Why? Well because it would just make it easier on the buffbots. Yes, it would make buffing easier on for live entertainers as well, but we still have limited time and the buffbots have all the time in the world. Moreover, the number one reason I se people writing for using a buffbot is that they know that it is always there.