Musician Archive
Thread: Recursive macros are being removed!
Beery
Wed Aug 04, 2004 11:00 pm
#66
"never been one of those so called leets. I was a ranger for the first six months of the game...and even with less than 30k in my pocket...always tipped..."
It's incredible. Every person who posts on these forums saying that entertainers are causing all the game's problems always say that they tip - and tip big. Hmmm. I guess it must be all our supporters who are stiffing us then.
"Many of those so called leets...you know..the cash heavy players...never really needed healing...the were the crafters for the most part"
Leets aren't 'cash heavy players', nor are they crafters. Leets are elite combat players - the folks who need buffs and healsmost. The vast majority of them seek out buffbots and try to avoid paying for buffs and heals if they can possibly avoid it. Heck, just today I hadtwo people on two separate occasionscome into the cantina and invite me to joina group (each thought I was AFK) so that they could steal a buff. When they saw I was awake they ran off without even asking if I could buff them. That is how petty and selfishthese folks are. They wouldprefer tospendmoney on a travel ticketand half an hour totravel to a freebuffbot rather than bother to find out what I charge for a buff. The time they wasted (in terms of lost loot opportunities)and the travel money they spent would probably work out to more than my buff would have cost them.
"so its because of money that you all quit in th beginning?
but its about OUR greed?"
The need for money is not greed. It's survival. The love of money is greed. There's a big difference. Ken Lay is greedy. A person making $10,000 per year and supporting a family is not greedy for wanting more. You seem to want to ignore the Ken Lays of the SWG world, and instead you want to label those who are struggling to survive on the game's worst-paid profession 'greedy'. That is class warfare.
Entertainers in this game are so poorly paid that many of them have left the profession because it's impossible to get the perks that other players routinelyget for their characters. To pretend that these people are greedy for wanting a fair shakeis just despicable.
Message Edited by Beery on 08-05-2004 02:21 AM
Kasteu
Thu Aug 05, 2004 5:29 am
#67
Okram2k, I'm with you on this one. 9 months of being a muscian/entertainer good bye!!!
I'm also appauled at the narrow mindness of part of the commuity and entertainer corrispondants on this (and the Devs of course). This "fix" fixes nothing (long term) and simply creates a challange for the people who abuse macros, while taking away another feature some people actually rely on. Some of you are on cloud nine, just cause you don't use macros, ones that don't repeat or even long ones. Why should others who have spent hours writing valid macros now have to spend even longer redoing them. For only to find out nothing has really changed and we all wait for the next nerf.
As for what nerf is next. The reason I stated that it would most likely be a limit on the number of lines is because historically these devs are lazy/slopping and take the easiest option, regardless of what affect it will have. Adding a timer, although only slightly more complicated is still more complicated as limiting the number of lines. Since they will have to introduce timing code that executes on each macro individually, while limiting lines is a one off occurance during the writing of the macro. Include the nerfing of /pause to smaller time slots and there you go!!! Easy, but thoughtless.
There was even another tread in the Dancer forum, which discussed other methods and even the method of coding a very simple fix that affected no one but the abuses. What happened, it got deleted and the corrispondant "magically" forgot what its contents were even though he'd made several posts in the discussion and was actualy one of the last to post only minutes before its deletion.
No one is asking for AFK buff bots or anything to stay, they just want a solution that doesn't affect their game play. There are other simple soultions to this, ones that would not take much development time.
I'm also appauled at the narrow mindness of part of the commuity and entertainer corrispondants on this (and the Devs of course). This "fix" fixes nothing (long term) and simply creates a challange for the people who abuse macros, while taking away another feature some people actually rely on. Some of you are on cloud nine, just cause you don't use macros, ones that don't repeat or even long ones. Why should others who have spent hours writing valid macros now have to spend even longer redoing them. For only to find out nothing has really changed and we all wait for the next nerf.
As for what nerf is next. The reason I stated that it would most likely be a limit on the number of lines is because historically these devs are lazy/slopping and take the easiest option, regardless of what affect it will have. Adding a timer, although only slightly more complicated is still more complicated as limiting the number of lines. Since they will have to introduce timing code that executes on each macro individually, while limiting lines is a one off occurance during the writing of the macro. Include the nerfing of /pause to smaller time slots and there you go!!! Easy, but thoughtless.
There was even another tread in the Dancer forum, which discussed other methods and even the method of coding a very simple fix that affected no one but the abuses. What happened, it got deleted and the corrispondant "magically" forgot what its contents were even though he'd made several posts in the discussion and was actualy one of the last to post only minutes before its deletion.
No one is asking for AFK buff bots or anything to stay, they just want a solution that doesn't affect their game play. There are other simple soultions to this, ones that would not take much development time.
Message Edited by Kasteu on 08-05-2004 06:14 AM
JohnMarble
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:41 am
#68
I still don't see how recursive macros being removed will affect anyone in a major way, unless they play afk. If somebody running their CoB macro must tap a key once every ten minutes, it's not the end of the world.
Beery
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:55 am
#69
"Okram2k, I'm with you on this one. 9 months of being a muscian/entertainer good bye!!!"
Well, if this tiny change is going to make you quit, then I guess your commitment to the professiondoesn't run too deep. There are plenty of people who quit the game in despair, and whohave been hoping for this change. I'm sure they will be more than willingtake your place.
Kasteu
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:56 am
#70
Because there are quite a few of us who have wrote many tracks and/or dance routines that don't just involve one long macro.
Yes if we were just starting then nothing would be an issue, but we aren't. We have several months of work, which we are now being forced to rewrite.
That's the issue, it breaks our game style. I have macros that are shared (modules), so if I like a squence I can integrate it into other tracks without have to recode it. Now not only do I have to rewrite everything, I have also to duplicate things into some very long macros.
Quite frankly I want to play a game, not become a programmer again. So if this goes live, which we all know it will regardless, then its good bye being an enterainer as I can think of more enjoyable ways of spend my hours than recoding.
Yes if we were just starting then nothing would be an issue, but we aren't. We have several months of work, which we are now being forced to rewrite.
That's the issue, it breaks our game style. I have macros that are shared (modules), so if I like a squence I can integrate it into other tracks without have to recode it. Now not only do I have to rewrite everything, I have also to duplicate things into some very long macros.
Quite frankly I want to play a game, not become a programmer again. So if this goes live, which we all know it will regardless, then its good bye being an enterainer as I can think of more enjoyable ways of spend my hours than recoding.
Beery
Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:14 am
#71
"Because there are quite a few of us who have wrote many tracks and/or dance routines that don't just involve one long macro."
Give me an example, please. Why anyone who was actually entertaining would go to the extra trouble of splitting his performance into lots of tiny macros is a mystery to me. Show me your entertainment macro, and show me why it can't be done in one long macro.
Beery
Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:17 am
#72
"Just because this doesn't inpact you, doesn't mean it doesn't others."
It's funny that in your mindthis applies to me, but it doesn't seem to apply to you. You don't care if every other entertainer has to endure buffbots and AFKers, just as long as you don't have to change your way of doing things.
Kasteu
Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:28 am
#73
Lol Beery, please learn to read posts.
How does coming up with a solution that only affects the AFK abusers affect anyone's gameplay. Your's, mine, whoever's. That all some of us want. You are fighting with people who actually agree with you, they just want the implementation not to nerf them (as a valid ATK player).
On a side note, I don't have to justify anything to you. People I know hear me play, they are the only ones that matter when I'm performing.
How does coming up with a solution that only affects the AFK abusers affect anyone's gameplay. Your's, mine, whoever's. That all some of us want. You are fighting with people who actually agree with you, they just want the implementation not to nerf them (as a valid ATK player).
On a side note, I don't have to justify anything to you. People I know hear me play, they are the only ones that matter when I'm performing.
Message Edited by Kasteu on 08-05-2004 07:34 AM
Beery
Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:33 am
#74
"On a side note, I don't have to justify anything to you. People I know hear me play, they are the only ones that matter when I'm performing. "
Hmmm. This looks suspiciously like avoidance to me. If you have such a macro, show it to us. I don't think you have such a macro. I think you're a buffbot or an AFKer.
Like I said, give me an example. Why anyone who was actually entertaining would go to the extra trouble of splitting his performance into lots of tiny macros is a mystery to me. Show me your entertainment macro, and show me why it can't be done in one long macro.
Prove it to all of us. If you can't, you're full of it.
Kasteu
Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:38 am
#75
Pray tell, why would an AFK player ask for a better solution that still stopped them doing what they wanted to do?
Find a post I've made which states I'm against AFK abuse being fixed? Hmmm, none!!!
Find one where I ask for a better solution and maybe the odd idea and I'm sure you'll find one of those quite easy.
Now let me throw something back. Could you be an AFK abuser who is fighting against any other change because you know this one can be worked around? Actually, to be honest, I don't actually believe that. However, why you are kicking up such a fuss over other mechanics being used is mind boggling.
Anyway, this is all really pointless to be honest. The devs will do what they want, regardless.
Find a post I've made which states I'm against AFK abuse being fixed? Hmmm, none!!!
Find one where I ask for a better solution and maybe the odd idea and I'm sure you'll find one of those quite easy.
Now let me throw something back. Could you be an AFK abuser who is fighting against any other change because you know this one can be worked around? Actually, to be honest, I don't actually believe that. However, why you are kicking up such a fuss over other mechanics being used is mind boggling.
Anyway, this is all really pointless to be honest. The devs will do what they want, regardless.
Message Edited by Kasteu on 08-05-2004 07:46 AM
Jenden
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:01 am
#76
kasteu, you wouldn't have to rewrite a single song, you've simply have to copy and paste some modules together. If you find a module you want to use in something else, copy and paste that in to the other macro. It takes a whole minute longer than writing /macro xxxxx would... I just don't see what's so hard about that.
Kasteu
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:07 am
#77
OK, so can someone please tell me how to cut and paste on a UK keyboard, as along with any of the \ commands (ie. colour) it doesn't seem to work? They nerfed us Brits even before signing up (or at least seem to have). 
Message Edited by Kasteu on 08-05-2004 08:09 AM
JohnMarble
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:33 am
#78
Copy/cut/paste aren't bound by default. You have to go into options and hit the keymap button, and bind them to something yourself.