Musician Archive
Thread: Why you need Image Design & Dance for master Entertainer.
LordAmber, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
My main beef is that every musician wants to take away from the master entertainer the one thing many of us worked to get, the mand. We put in the extra time and effort to master the entertainment line to get that instrument. As a consequence, our other skills won't be as strong as those who just become Master Musician. To take that rewardaway and to replace it with a crappy instrument or a schematic to make an instrument after master entertainers have been using itwould not be right. It would be like giving the bandfill or omnibox to an entertainer then giving the musician class another variation of the fizz.Musicians would scream bloody murder and rightfully so.
As I said before, a more fair solution would be to give the musicians access to another stringed instrument in the musicians skill tree instead of taking the Mand away from master entertainers.In this way,the musicians would get what they wanted, a stringed instrument,without screwing over everymaster entertainer who suffered through dancing and image design. The instruments can have different looking flourishes with the mand ones would beinga bit more flashy and entertaining.
Another possible solution would be to allow any musician to play any instrument or song but they can only flourish and gain exp with the instruments and they are certified in. Master Entertainers would be certified in Mand. This fixes the problem musicians have with not being able to play every single instrument and song in the game while not taking away something from master entertainers.
yknow what
I want teh nalagron
see I have to many points to spend on other things to afford to master musician so I didn't want to buy teh healing lines
but I'd like the nalagron so devs please move it to novice muscian and move the traz to master muscian please it's just as good.
if that doesn't work just give us something exactly likea nalagron only different.
thanks
"But having a song and instrument that you have to learn to be a hairstylist for? What exactly does being able to change someone's eye color have to do with being able to learn a song?"
what in the heck does being a brawler have to do with commando or smuggler?
what does slaughtering and skinning creatures have to do with taming creatures?
for that matter what does healing have to do with dancing and music?
why doesn't apple jacks taste like apple?
what does making animaltraps have to do with bounty hunters(they get no traps)?
Bulbous2 wrote:
That's a completely grabastic and asinine statement. You're saying "We want everything that an Entertainer has (music related), but they should still get something... I don't know what, but something".
How about you confine the ability to heal Battle Fatigue to Entertainers only?
See, an ME speaks. Just because I do not have a specific idea of what to give the ME, doesn't mean that I am not looking for ideas from people. Someone has a good idea that you might just jump and get excited at when you hear it. Rather than attack me, look in the mirror and see the real enemy to the Musician class, you. People think they work so hard for ME, but what is that work in comparison to an MM. Do you think it is fair that an MM spends 10x the work as an ME to be rewarded with the ME playing the only stringed instrument in the game. This is a disparity that has no precedence anywhere and was a mistake that was clearly not designed. It was not designed this way because ME did not have the mandoviol until 1 week before release. If didn't belong there before and it still doesn't, and yes if you want all the "cool" instruments suck it up and become a musician, that is what the profession is there for.
Sinloi wrote:
"Do you think it is fair that an MM spends 10x the work as an ME to be rewarded with the ME playing the only stringed instrument in the game."
first my friend
what the heck do you think we are doing? stopping at ME? hah no see I'm doing teh work that a MM would do
PLUS the work for ME so taht means I'm doing 12x the work as you
No, it is 1.1x the work. Math works, really it does. Second, my issue is not with Musicians or entertainers, it is with the devs. I just continue to get crap from ME's in the Musician forums. This forum is about bettering Musician which means even at the expense of other professions. I at least want to see ME's compensated for what I want to take from them, but I'm getting to the point where I think I will better heard shouting screw the ME's, all hail the might MM.It is a valid issuefor an MM to wonder why the ME has the mandoviol, which is why I post about it here in this forum.
Sinloi wrote:
" It was not designed this way because ME did not have the mandoviol until 1 week before release."
oh you want how it was originally designed EVEN BETTER
okay everyone cna play the nalgaron at music 4 in the entertainer skill tree
there now that that's all taken care of
Just because the design was changed, doesn't make it better. The original design had all the songs and instruments in the musician trees. While they need work, that was the original intent. The mandoviol is the only aberration. I really don't care where the instruments are placed, hell put the bandfill at tech 4, nargalon at wound 3, omni at novice, and fanfar at music 1. Who cares, but the point is that they are all certed in music skill boxes of which ME is not a musician skill box.
But a ME isn'tpart of the musician profession, so your point was.Besides I might have to suck it up and spend a whole day (/shiver) getting the mandoviol. Boy won't that feel like an accomplishment. Heck I might even make my title ME, I mean it is by far a better accomplishment than MM could ever be.
Sinloi wrote:
"and yes if you want all the "cool" instruments suck it up and become a musician, that is what the profession is there for."
or Suck it up and become a master entertainer.
LordTigris wrote:
Just because I do not have a specific idea of what to give the ME, doesn't mean that I am not looking for ideas from people. Someone has a good idea that you might just jump and get excited at when you hear it.
Well, it does mean that youdon't propose your ideauntil you have thought it through halfway, and gotten some input. I also gave youa specific idea, one which you didn't even touch.
LordTigris wrote:
People think they work so hard for ME, but what is that work in comparison to an MM. Do you think it is fair that an MM spends 10x the work as an ME to be rewarded with the ME playing the only stringed instrument in the game.
I'd like to see your numbers that show that MM takes 10x the work as ME. If you're confused enough so as to be comparing the raw XP requirements only, then you have not considered that a Novice Musician earns about 50x the XP of a Novice Entertainer. Yes, I think it is entirely fair and proper that the Master Entertainer be rewarded with an Entertainment Device which is both unique and appropriate for that class and no other. Just because the Entertainment Device makes music does not make it an appropriate choice for the Musician; this is a fact which I believe has well been established.
Bulbous2 wrote:
LordTigris wrote:
Just because I do not have a specific idea of what to give the ME, doesn't mean that I am not looking for ideas from people. Someone has a good idea that you might just jump and get excited at when you hear it.
Well, it does mean that youdon't propose your ideauntil you have thought it through halfway, and gotten some input. I also gave youa specific idea, one which you didn't even touch.
I don't remember you idea, so my apologies to that, and someone sparked an idea that I'd like to propose here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=musician&message.id=1626
My not be a great idea, but then again people may like it. I am trying to be constructive.
LordTigris wrote:
People think they work so hard for ME, but what is that work in comparison to an MM. Do you think it is fair that an MM spends 10x the work as an ME to be rewarded with the ME playing the only stringed instrument in the game.
I'd like to see your numbers that show that MM takes 10x the work as ME. If you're confused enough so as to be comparing the raw XP requirements only, then you have not considered that a Novice Musician earns about 50x the XP of a Novice Entertainer. Yes, I think it is entirely fair and proper that the Master Entertainer be rewarded with an Entertainment Device which is both unique and appropriate for that class and no other. Just because the Entertainment Device makes music does not make it an appropriate choice for the Musician; this is a fact which I believe has well been established.
You fail to remember that a novice musician has already completed 2 of the 4 trees of entertainer and I was factored into the cost, it is probably more than 10x since ME's stake over MM is only ID4 and Dance4. It was a rough guess and I went conservative, but I do think it is a fair estimate, especially in time.
As for any instrument being defined as an entertainment device, that have never been well established by anyone but the keep mandoviol where it is camp. Looking over the flourishes, any instrument would be an entertainment device andnot a music device by your reasoning. The fact is that it is an instrument. Whether an instrument is used in an entertaining way or not, it is still an instrument. Lay it on the table, it is an instrument, it won't entertain you. A radio is an entertainment device. More importantly, an entertainer is an entertainment device and the ME skill should reflect that the person is the entertainer, not the instrument.
God these forums need edit buttons. /sigh
This got lost in the previous message, my apologies.
Bulbous2 wrote:
LordTigris wrote:
Just because I do not have a specific idea of what to give the ME, doesn't mean that I am not looking for ideas from people. Someone has a good idea that you might just jump and get excited at when you hear it.
Well, it does mean that youdon't propose your ideauntil you have thought it through halfway, and gotten some input. I also gave youa specific idea, one which you didn't even touch.
I don't remember your idea, so my apologies to that,but someone did sparked an idea that I'd like to propose here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=musician&message.id=1626
My not be a great idea, but then again people may like it. I am trying to be constructive.
The sad fact of the matter is that the Master Entertainer profession NEEDS some kind of perk to it to make Musicians or Dancers want to obtain this rank in addition to their other Master ranks. They have done a good job with this in terms of the Mando. Entertainers are happy with it, Musician/Entertainers are happy with it. The ones ones who are dissatisfied are those Musicians who are too lazy to round out their skills with Master Entertainer. This is functioning EXACTLY as it should.
If you want the Mando in the Musician tree, it will have to be at the expense of something unique, which already exists in the Musician tree. Possibilities are Nalargon, Bandfill, ability to cure Battle Faitgue, ability to heal Mind Wounds.
As an aside, ME should also get an extra Dance not available to Master Dancers.
Bulbous2 wrote:Yea, and that's wrong. The Master Entertainer profession should appeal to someone who wants to be a master entertainer. Not to someone who wants to be a master musician. Not to someone who wants to be a master dancer.
The sad fact of the matter is that the Master Entertainer profession NEEDS some kind of perk to it to make Musicians or Dancers want to obtain this rank in addition to their other Master ranks.
What is the benefit of getting master entertainer if you want to be a master image designer? None. Not one bleeding thing.
The perks of getting a master level in a profession, ANY master level, should be worthwhile in their own right, and should apply to the profession as a whole. If the perks apply to another advanced profession, the perks should apply to all the advanced professions equally. In this case, something that helps with any entertainment related profession. If I got entertainer to go into Image Design, does it help me in any way to get Master Entertainer?
You want to go to the ID forum and ask how they would like to see an ID specific skill moved to Master Entertainer to make them "want to obtain this rank in addition to their other Master ranks"?
They have done a good job with this in terms of the Mando. Entertainers are happy with it, Musician/Entertainers are happy with it. The ones ones who are dissatisfied are those Musicians who are too lazy to round out their skills with Master Entertainer. This is functioning EXACTLY as it should.Um, I have Master Entertainer. I'm obviously not too lazy to get it, and I'm arguing against it because I think it's wrong. Not because I want the Devs to make life easy on poor widdle me.
Why? Yes, the Master Entertainer should get something for earning this rank. Why should that something come at the expense of another class? Why should Musician, or Dancer, or Image Designer, or any new advanced profession they invent based on Entertainer suffer to make Master Entertainer worth having?
If you want the Mando in the Musician tree, it will have to be at the expense of something unique, which already exists in the Musician tree. Possibilities are Nalargon, Bandfill, ability to cure Battle Faitgue, ability to heal Mind Wounds.
As an aside, ME should also get an extra Dance not available to Master Dancers.They do. Two dances in fact. Footloose 2 and Formal 2. Sure they are upgrades of existing dances, but a Master Dancer can't get them unless he gets Master Entertainer. I'm arguing against that as well. And yes, that means I (as Master Entertainer) loose those dances. That's fine.
Lord Amber
Looking for a few good sigs
Bulbous2 wrote:
The ones ones who are dissatisfied are those Musicians who are too lazy to round out their skills with Master Entertainer. This is functioning EXACTLY as it should.
A MM lazy?? Have you seen the time and xp requirement for MM?? The lazy way would be to just get ME. MM/ME's are the most devoted but unless they are planning on dancing or ID, they waste a lot of potential just by trying to be a master musician. You may think that it is functioning exactly as it should, but the empirical evidence supports otehrwise. I'm sure some people think the insurance system is working perfectly too.
[qoute]A MM lazy?? Have you seen the time and xp requirement for MM?? The lazy way would be to just get ME. [/quote]
How many MM here afk macroed to get to it? Oh yeah, you guys are real hard workers there. I'll be glad when I get MM because I can say I did it all without macros.
Bulbous2 wrote:
You cannot Macro Image Design. It is harder to obtain Master Entertainer than Master Musician. It takes more effort. Master Musician merely takes longer.
You may not be able to macro it, but you can sure spam it, which many people do. And since the requirements are low in ME, this again is a time issue. Many musicians do not macro, many do. Holding the "honor" of the professions participants against the profession is unfair to the merits of those that practice the profession is a more time honored fashion, slowly and with care.
Now Igive a lot of credit to those willing to master ID though, that is a feat. So kudos to them, as they are far more patient that I will ever be. /bow2