Musician Archive
Thread: Why you need Image Design & Dance for master Entertainer.
Lynisx wrote:
[qoute]A MM lazy?? Have you seen the time and xp requirement for MM?? The lazy way would be to just get ME. [/quote]
How many MM here afk macroed to get to it? Oh yeah, you guys are real hard workers there. I'll be glad when I get MM because I can say I did it all without macros.
You prove the point, calling you lazy would be wrong, agreed?? Besides, anything that you apply to MM's is appliable to ME as well. You can macro dance and music in ME so fast it is ridiculous. Taht being said, I'm not sure what the point of your post was.
Some of these arguments are just ridiculous. You should hear yourselves and what you have to say.
First of all a Master Musician should be just that. He should be a Master of Music. Right now, according to some of you you, being a master of music means you are not and should not truly be a true master.
Take the artisan example. A master artisan is the only person that can make the items needed by the elite professions. Well, the elite proffessions can still create things, without becoming a master artisan, that require that a master artisan make him products that he cannot make. I belive that to be fair. In order to make that example comparable to the issue between a master entertainer and a master musician, youwould have to make it so that only the master artisan can make certain finished products that none of the elite proffessions can make. For example a probe droid could only be created by a master artisan not a droid engineer instead of only the master artisan being able to make the parts that a droid engineer needs to make the probe droid. (I dont know what either of those professions are actually capable of, neither do I care to research it at this time, so please just follow the logic, not the specifics.)
If you want to give something unique to the master entertainers, give them ALL the flashy lights I get through Music Techniques instead of giving them to me. Give them the ability to perform flourishes that cost fewer action points. Give them an addedbonus to healing. They are after all supposed to be masters of entertainment, not of music or dancing or image design. I am frustrated that the ME's get the ONLY stringed instrument in the game and I dont think its right to keep it from the master musician.
If you think about how much it costs you to perform a flourish on any higer level instrument or song, ME would still look extremely beneficial to a lot of musicians. If you notice, you run out of action pool points faster the higher you go. Decrease that by 20% and you can play or dance20% longer witout having to stop and rest. (for me thats an extra 2-3 minutes) That means faster exp, and fewer customers complaining about how ling it takes you to rest up.
Master Entertainer is a very basic profession that should remain basic. That means you should know a little bit about several methods of entertainment. Master Musician or Dancer is an elite profession that forces you to know an awful lot about one method of entertainment. Saying that a mando is a tool of entertainment and not a musical instrument to a musician is like telling a surgeon that his scalpal is not a surgical device but a medical device that even non-surgeons can use properly and appropriately.
"First of all a Master Musician should be just that. He should be a Master of Music. Right now, according to some of you you, being a master of music means you are not and should not truly be a true master."
Um ok, I'm really really tired of hearing this argument. Argue with me that any of the following people are NOT master musicians: Yo-yo Ma, Itzhak Perlman, John Eliot Gardiner. For those of you who don't recognize the names, Yo-yo Ma makes his living by playing-the cello. Perlman plays the violin. John Eliot Gardiner doesn't actually make his living playing ANYTHING, he 'just' conducts. So in actuality, a novice musician should be given a choice in ONE instrument to play so he can truly master it. Or he can choose to be a bandleader and get special commands, or maybe he could choose to be a composer. Neither of *those* professions rely on playing an instrument at all. There are VERY few people in real life that play more than one instrument with the level of proficiency and artistry to make a living with either. Being a master musician doesn't mean that you play every instrument in the universe.
I can tell you that the mandolin is not accorded the same amount of respect as say, any type of horn. Is the mandolin a regular part of an orchestra? Nope. It was only respected in certain cultures. It's entirely possible that, in the Star Wars universe, the mandoviol has a similar stigma-only the 'low' entertainer would bother to learn that instrument, NOT a serious musician. If you think all instruments are created equal, you are sadly mistaken.
Now, ceremonial song, same thing. Way back when, there was a dance song that was considered obscene and lewd. To our modern ears, these dances sound like 'classical' music, however, in their own time they were something that 'proper' musicians didn't play (unless the noble who hired them to provide music for his dancing actually WANTED that). It was kind of scandalous to dance a sarabande. For all we know, Ceremonial might be considered 'low' or 'common' by musicians and thus, the domain of the lowly entertainer.
I have no explanation for the dances, but the dancers haven't been trying to get formal2 and footloose2 removed from Master Entertainer by using any comparison to real life-and if they have, they aren't starting several threads about it on their board.
The bottom line is, you *can* be a master musician without knowing how to play every instrument and every song in existence. The devs really haven't reached all that far and I could give a lot more real life examples but this post is long enough as it is, somewhat oversimplified, and it's not going to change anyone's mind anyway.
Velvet-dancer wrote:
"First of all a Master Musician should be just that. He should be a Master of Music. Right now, according to some of you you, being a master of music means you are not and should not truly be a true master."
Um ok, I'm really really tired of hearing this argument. Argue with me that any of the following people are NOT master musicians: Yo-yo Ma, Itzhak Perlman, John Eliot Gardiner. For those of you who don't recognize the names, Yo-yo Ma makes his living by playing-the cello. Perlman plays the violin. John Eliot Gardiner doesn't actually make his living playing ANYTHING, he 'just' conducts. So in actuality, a novice musician should be given a choice in ONE instrument to play so he can truly master it. Or he can choose to be a bandleader and get special commands, or maybe he could choose to be a composer. Neither of *those* professions rely on playing an instrument at all. There are VERY few people in real life that play more than one instrument with the level of proficiency and artistry to make a living with either. Being a master musician doesn't mean that you play every instrument in the universe.
But there are people that can play many instruments and make a living doing so. They wouldn't be Master Musicians by any chance would they??
I can tell you that the mandolin is not accorded the same amount of respect as say, any type of horn. Is the mandolin a regular part of an orchestra? Nope. It was only respected in certain cultures. It's entirely possible that, in the Star Wars universe, the mandoviol has a similar stigma-only the 'low' entertainer would bother to learn that instrument, NOT a serious musician. If you think all instruments are created equal, you are sadly mistaken.
I could argue that Yo-yo Ma is not a Master Musician. Master Celloist, sure. Gardiner is a Master Conducter, but not a musician unless he can play. However, in SWG a MM plays all but one instrument(should be all), knows all but one song(also should be all), and builds EVERY instrument. They can also dang near spit in your direction to heal mind and fatigue.
Now, ceremonial song, same thing. Way back when, there was a dance song that was considered obscene and lewd. To our modern ears, these dances sound like 'classical' music, however, in their own time they were something that 'proper' musicians didn't play (unless the noble who hired them to provide music for his dancing actually WANTED that). It was kind of scandalous to dance a sarabande. For all we know, Ceremonial might be considered 'low' or 'common' by musicians and thus, the domain of the lowly entertainer.
Isn't this making a real-life comparison?? (see below)
I have no explanation for the dances, but the dancers haven't been trying to get formal2 and footloose2 removed from Master Entertainer by using any comparison to real life-and if they have, they aren't starting several threads about it on their board.
Actually, the dancers have start threads about it. However, since their dances are not unique, they are concentrating on more important issues to them, such as only 3 unique flourishes on a dance and falling all the time. This is an issue here, but noone is throttling the correspondent for not taking this issue to number 1 because there are important issues for musicians that are still more important than this, but this is important to be fixed at some point.
The bottom line is, you *can* be a master musician without knowing how to play every instrument and every song in existence. The devs really haven't reached all that far and I could give a lot more real life examples but this post is long enough as it is, somewhat oversimplified, and it's not going to change anyone's mind anyway.
However, the point you missed is that the game clearly describes the MM as KNOWING EVERY SONG AND INSTRUMENT. This is clearly stated by just moving a cursor over the MM box. This description is wrong because someone meesed up and put the mandoviol and cerimonial into ME. And yes, the same applies to Master Dancer.
Regards,
Bener
A few of you by now, know who I am, for those who don't,
I am a Master Entertainer and Master Musician. I was number two and five, respectfully, on my server. I have not been plying my trade much of late because it is impossible, to make the kind of money I want, to support myself in a lifestyle that I want. So of late I have been developing my Scout and Pistol skills. And lets just say that I do not suck now.
I choose to become a Master Entertainer first, and then went up the tree to become a Master Musician. I enjoy the atmosphere, and excitement of the crowds, and when I am on, I can useually brighten anyone day. Again, if it were not for the money, i would be a total non combatant. We have other servers if I had wanted a total combat character.
I worked hard to attain my Mandovil, I could care less about the Ceremonial song, however it is a good song. As this topic over the Mandovil /Stringed instruments just won't die. I am weighing in for perhaps the last time. ( I will make a post about this in NewJedis thread in the next Issues for the Devs, if this is still a topic.
To me the number one complaint is actually two fold. One, in the description of the Master Musician it says that he is a Master of all instruments. Ok, this needs to be addressed. Second is the fact, that as things stand, people want to play the Mandovil, or another stringed instrument without having to become a Master Entertainer.
This game is about choices and how you develop your character. It seems to me that it basicly boils down to, people want the Mandovil, but are not willing to "sacrifice" from thier spec path to take it, because it would mean losing some skills that they really want.
Well I say, tough. I worked my path, I earned it, and most people want it given to them(The Mandovil that is). If the Mandovil or even another stringed instrument is given to the Master Musician line, then I am cashing my Master Entertainer and Master Musician skills back in.
This is my opinion, and the opinion of many others as well. If you want it, work for it, if not, let it go. Please.
Durney Kova - Master Entertainer - Master Musician - Lowca
Well said. I think we should close the thread on that note. That should also be the final word in the discussion. Let it rest with that.
Devs, take note.
Cudayn wrote:...
To me the number one complaint is actually two fold. One, in the description of the Master Musician it says that he is a Master of all instruments. Ok, this needs to be addressed. Second is the fact, that as things stand, people want to play the Mandovil, or another stringed instrument without having to become a Master Entertainer.
Okay the problem is really this, people don't think there should be no reward for all the work it takes to get ME. By got there should be!!! I'm working towards it my self. But even as someone who plans to get ME and MM I still don't think the Mandovil (something I don't even want to play)belongs only in the ME slot (same for the dances). ME should have something really unique, something that enhances the Musican, Dancer, and Image designer! By God I say again there should be something special at ME, it should just besomething better than a Mandovil, Cerimonal ( A song that makes more sense in MM as SW2 is more entertaning), and some Dances.
Honest to goodness the fact that MEs don't feel cheated is beyond me. Rather than come up with something that really sets you apart as a Master Entertainer all they did was give you a few things that other people can do anyway. "Ohh look I'm a ME and I play an instrament and dance." the ME might say.
So rather than look at it as all the MM compaining that they don't have the mandovil look at it the right way and say. "Dang it DEVs we are Master Entertainers we want some prof of that other than a violin and a song I can't paly with my Master Musican friends!"
I applaud whomever was in charge of making this change in beta to spice up the Master Entertainer. I for one, like the fact that you have to sacrifice to earn it. it makes you a more complete entertainer and not some combat hybrid.
We will have to continue to disagree on this issue, because I am not budging.
Durney Kova - MASTER ENTERTAINER - Master Musician - Lowca
If I could, to make this more constructive, plese go to this thread and comment please.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=musician&message.id=1626
Thanks