Musician Archive
Thread: Why you need Image Design & Dance for master Entertainer.
yes, getting master entertainer for the mandoviol is a regular pain in the arse. I got master entertainer just for the mandoviol, I saw a musician friend playing it and immediately wanted one. What I would think needs to happen is not necessarily the removal of the mandoviol from the master entertainer, but the addition of more stringed instruments for musicians. Or a different stringed instrument for master entertainer and the mandoviol in the musician only line.
Personally, I'd love a stringed instrument that just sounded like guitar or electric guitar, period. It would make sense for something like that to be a master entertainer instrument, if you think in terms of rock bands, with the big hair and make-up (image design) wild and crazy on-stage moves (dancing) and then their wild electric guitar playing (musician). Perhaps the mandoviol, which most of the time sounds more like a violin then anything, would be more appropriate further up the musicianline..
Doing do rewards the musician/dancer for making master and rewards the master entertainer for going broader brush than specializing.
Look at the exp required to get to master entertainer, what is it = to 1 higher level skill box in dancer/musician?
You know, if I thought this really was In the Interest of Fairness (tm Vince McMahon) I would support the MM position that they should have access to the Mando.
However, I suspect the outrage would not be there if the ME's had a tamborine, or wind chimes, or some equally "lame" instrument.
We know what this is really about - and it's sad to see. Even if it's just a game.
Besides, major orchestras are full of Masters of their instruments - but outside of a very few Grand Masters, I don't see them swapping chairs for different performances.
Bulbous2 wrote:
I think you've *heard* it several times; it's just that the comprehension isn't there.
Right, because I just can't grasp your lofty concepts. Please. Your argument isn't convincing at all. An entertainer's instrument my foot. Ever notice the flourishes one performs whilst playing the bandfill, ommni or nal? Sorry, chief, but I think that if my MM can handle those he can also handle the strutting a player does whilst using the mando. Again, your argument is poor. Come up with something convincing or just say "I went through the trouble of training image design and dancing and you should be forced to as well" and be done with it. ME's deserve a reward but the only stringed instrument? Nope.
I'm a master entertainer, and my boyfriend is working towards master musician.
The thing that bugs him more than not being able to use the mandoviol is not being able to play the Ceremonial song. What he would like to see is being able to join in, using his instruments, with people playing the Ceremonial song. That is, me or another master entertainer would start playing Ceremonial, and with his music knowledge he would be able to type /startmusic and join in.
Personally, I feel that this is a great idea. A master musician should be able to improvise on the instruments that he has learned.
Well here is a thought about how to fix the problem, as we all know that in realitythe only reason ME has unique items is because the devs coudln't think of what to give as a good bonus at that skill.
Why not drop one of our MM healing lines and just merge it in with the one you keep. Then in the other three lines they work it like this. One line would be Stringed instraments, the 2nd would be Wind instraments, the 3rd would be Drums. This fixies a few problems at once. It will give people varity in there instraments in that as you progress up the MM line you can choose only the instraments you like. This also will help with song variaity as lets say you can play all the songs from the start, but you need to earn the ability to play it on certain instraments. So inother works lets say you are working on your Stringed instraments and you have learned to play StarWars 3 on the strings great you can play that, but you havne't tuched your percusion instraments so you can only play StarWars 2 on the drums. It should all keep the same type of XP and you just decicde where to spend the points as you earn them. Oh and move the ability to make the instrament in front of the ability to play the item, this is easier to justify as you need to make the instrament to train on it.
Now to make ME carry some weight saying the remove all unique content out of it, this is hard since for the most part the numbers we cain in our skill have no precived meaning to us as players. Everyone seems to hate my idea of special lighting that is always on ( I still think a cool particale effect would rock ) so that option is out. Well I was thinking of an XP bonus but that is only temparay and in the end not worth it. No one really feels they need to heal faster so that's no good. So the only thing I can think of is to reduce the cost of flurishes for master entertainers, and lower there Image Design cost since they have takin the extra time to master various aspects it seems to help Dancers, Image Designers, and Musicans.
Adding in lower Action & Mind costs for flourishes and Image Design is great but alone doesn't give a compelling reason to get ME. So why not add in all of the things I suggested, They would Heal BF and Wounds faster, they had a cool lighting efect that only they get, and maybe they even could get 2 more flourishes that only MEs would have. Sure there is some unique content there but, nothing that takes away from the MM, MD, or MID.
I totally agree that ME should have some reward, but not for the sake of enticing people to master the profession. There is no reason for people to master marksman other than the fact that it is a requirement for some professions and some people want to. But it isn't required to bea master rifleman, nor do you lose any skill by opting out of it. The same should hold true for ME. The devs made a mistake by moving the instruments as they did so close to the release day. These professions needed a lot more work and still are going to have to be adjusted. This would not have been a problem if ME was a requirement of MM and MD, but it isn't and by putting unique rewards there, they stole from the MM profession what was theirs before the Mandoviol was moved. While Dancers are not as hurt by the lack of unique dances in ME, they are hurt by the fact that they are still being hit with the same requirement of mastering entertainer to master dancing.
Personally, the idea that every profession had to have exactly 4 trees with 4 tiers was a mistake. Variance could have solved a lot of problems while still making things far more interesting. Of course coding the skill costs and interface might have been a bit harder to accomodate, but my opinion is do it right even if it is harder.
LordTigris, you're mistaken. Each and every basic profession has some skill, ability or schematic that an elite profession can use or might want.
Master artisans can make electronic components that architects, droid engineers and other elite crafting professions need to make equipment with. Needless to say, they would be overjoyed about not having to go to a master artisan or train as one to get those components.
Master brawlers get access to beserk 2 and other combat manuevers that anyone who goes straight into an elite brawling profession can not get. These manuevers work a lot better than the beserk 1 and intimidate 1 that any brawler can get without mastering the brawling profession. (Couse beserk is getting a nerf so beserk 2 probably won't be work mastering the brawling profession).
Master marksman get extra weapon speed, accuracy, range defense and a overcharge II which doesn't get used much considering some of the manuevers the elite combat professions have access to. The only reason you see master marksman is because it is required for some elite combat professions.
Master Medics can make and use stimpack d's. This is something a bio-engineer can't do even though he had to master levels of organic chemistry. If you don't think there is a big difference between a stimpack C and a stimpack D then you are sadly mistaken.
I think the system makes sense. A more fair solution would be to give the musicians access to another stringed instrument in the musicians skill tree instead of taking the Mand away from master entertainers. Another solution would be to allow any musician to play any instrument but they can only flourish and gain exp with the instruments they are certified in.
First, seperate the crafting of items away from skills. They are not the same system because the crafting system was deliberatly built to be lower player dependent before they threw out that concept in beta. The skills(ie special abilities, not schematics)are not made to be dependent on lower players as your skill inanything does not affect someone elses skill.
That alone destroys both the medic and artisan's rewards. A master brawlers and master marksmans bonuses are completely irelevant once someone masters a specific elite profession branching out of that base profession. The Master marksman bonuses for a master pistoleer are not even a major haul, and the skill of overshot2 is worthless compared to things like stopping shot and bodyshot3. The only skill so far that even remotely be useful would be berserk2, but as you said, nerfs could change that. Besides, a TK master would laugh at you telling him that he needed Master brawler. MM's though do need ME to get any stringed instrument. Could you imaging telling a master pistoleer that he couldn't use a scoutblaster unless he mastered marksman?? He'd shoot you.
While I am advocating the removal of dances, instruments and songs from ME, I also am advocating that ME's get something uniquely entertainerish to be placed there. God knows we could use more variety already.
Yeah I can understand why people are all worried about losing all the time they invested to get ME just so they could have something unique, but no one is saying there shouldn't have some really cool reward.
Plus think of this, when was the last time you played Cermonial ina band?
LordTigris wrote:
While I am advocating the removal of dances, instruments and songs from ME, I also am advocating that ME's get something uniquely entertainerish to be placed there.
That's a completely grabastic and asinine statement. You're saying "We want everything that an Entertainer has (music related), but they should still get something... I don't know what, but something".
How about you confine the ability to heal Battle Fatigue to Entertainers only?
Tovalt wrote, and I am replying to...
LordTigris, you're mistaken. Each and every basic profession has some skill, ability or schematic that an elite profession can use or might want.
Might want? Sure. Is functionally part of? No.
Yeah, but you *can* get the items. This is deliberate to create more interdependence between professions and players. As an armorsmith, I cannot make every component that goes *into* armor (optional and required) myself, unless I've picked up tailor as well. But I can make every armor. To make this comparable to the musician/dancer situation, it would be the same as saying "I can make any armor, except composite armor gloves. You need to be a master artisan for that."
Master artisans can make electronic components that architects, droid engineers and other elite crafting professions need to make equipment with. Needless to say, they would be overjoyed about not having to go to a master artisan or train as one to get those components.
Yes, this is what we are saying is the problem. That one thing that is distinctive to your profession is *not* available to you at all, unless you get completely unrelated skills.
Yes, and berserk 1 and 2 are brawler skills. So what? They will make any advanced profession based on brawler better (in theory, at least). They are common to all the advanced professions based on brawler. To compare this to the situation that musicians/dancers have, lets take an unarmed attack from the TKA profession and put it in master brawler. It's useable to brawlers, because they have unarmed combat skills, but for a TKA (advanced unarmed combat profession) to have this unarmed attack ability, they are going to have to learn how to fight with one-handed weapons, two-handed weapons, and polearms. *TWITCH*
Master brawlers get access to beserk 2 and other combat manuevers that anyone who goes straight into an elite brawling profession can not get. These manuevers work a lot better than the beserk 1 and intimidate 1 that any brawler can get without mastering the brawling profession. (Couse beserk is getting a nerf so beserk 2 probably won't be work mastering the brawling profession).
See above. This is exactly the same argument as for master brawlers. Yes, you get bonuses if you master marksman. However, there are no rifles that you cannot use as a rifleman that are only available to master marksmen. That's the problem we have with master musicians. There are songs and instruments that are only available to master entertainers.
Master marksman get extra weapon speed, accuracy, range defense and a overcharge II which doesn't get used much considering some of the manuevers the elite combat professions have access to. The only reason you see master marksman is because it is required for some elite combat professions.
What does making stimpacks have to do with bio-engineer? Bio-engineer deals with sampling DNA from critters and making better critters from it. Better stim-packs would be nice, but it's not a core feature of the profession. Now if the ability to make a bearded jax was only available to master medic, I'd say it was a similar situation. And I'd also say that it should be fixed.
Master Medics can make and use stimpack d's. This is something a bio-engineer can't do even though he had to master levels of organic chemistry. If you don't think there is a big difference between a stimpack C and a stimpack D then you are sadly mistaken.
I think the system makes sense. A more fair solution would be to give the musicians access to another stringed instrument in the musicians skill tree instead of taking the Mand away from master entertainers. Another solution would be to allow any musician to play any instrument but they can only flourish and gain exp with the instruments they are certified in.
Obviously, I don't think the system makes sense. This is the only place that this structure occurs. If the mandoviol could only be made by master entertainers, but was used by musicians, I'd say "that's odd", but it would be similar to the way things work for the crafters, and I'd just chalk it up to being the same. But having a song and instrument that you have to learn to be a hairstylist for? What exactly does being able to change someone's eye color have to do with being able to learn a song? Sorry, I don't get it.
Lord Amber
Looking for a few good sigs
LiquidMonkey wrote:Well here is a thought about how to fix the problem, as we all know that in realitythe only reason ME has unique items is because the devs coudln't think of what to give as a good bonus at that skill.
Why not drop one of our MM healing lines and just merge it in with the one you keep. Then in the other three lines they work it like this. One line would be Stringed instraments, the 2nd would be Wind instraments, the 3rd would be Drums.
I love this idea. I don't think it will fly, because we are no longer carbon copies of dancer
, but I'd really like this.Lord Amber
Looking for a few good sigs