Musician Archive

Thread: Do you think it's fair to waste 400k xp out of 900k xp, when you could be spending it on FS xp?

Warryyr
Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:28 am
#53




NewJedi wrote:

I agree with Fragpuppie. There is every indication that the 400K XP is intended for Live.


I have mentioned to the devs that some Musicians think400K istoo step, and I expect Panthu is doing the same for Dancers.






Well, as a Musician, my opinion is not that 400k xp is too steep.


My opinion is it should be removed.


No other profession is forced to spend xp on new content. There's no excuse given by a Dev in the Feedback Thread as to why it's there. So, I assume it's purposeless and baseless unless I hear otherwise. We voiced our feedback, it's the Devs turn to do their part and tell us why things are as they are. Why is there an xp requirement. Why is the new dance broken, though they've had nothing but time to fix it.


Were Droid Engineers forced to exchange 400,000 Droid Crafting xp for their new droid module schematics? No.


Were Doctors forced to exchange 400,000 Healing xp for their Poison/Disease resist buff schematics? Were they forced to exchange 400,000 Healing xp for their Poison/Disease Area Cure schematics? No.


Heck, they didn't even have to do any QUEST! They just GOT THEM! Login, and it's right there to use!


And, those things provided a BENEFIT to the game community! And they just GOT THEM!


The new song and dance offers NO benefit. It's eye candy. And, it's a very very very small addition to our game. I give it 1 week, maybe 2, before everyone's playing it and it gets boring to hear just like the other songs.


The xp requirement, in my opinion, is completely unjustified and without precedent. And it has to go. In my opinion.


NewJedi, would you also please tell the Devs I'm very disappointed that they haven't addressed any of the issues we've raised in the Feedback thread? They're causing the game to lose more live Entertainers by their indifference to us. Their policy (or whatever their problem is) of posting things regarding us, then abandoning them, has got to go.


The Jedi quests got replies by Devs regarding concerns. We deserve nothing less than the same treatment.


If this goes Live, in it's current state, and without any justification for the xp requirement or explanation for the broken dance in the Feedback thread, I'm not sure what action I'll take. I'm currently weighing my options.


I don't take kindly to blathering to myself in threads that Devs start. It's completely lame and a waste of my time. If we wanted to talk to ourselves or other Entertainers, we'd just do so in our profession forums.


fett3041
Thu Sep 23, 2004 7:36 pm
#54
I agree with Warryyr entirely.





Mo'Ste Elosk
Mo'Set Elosk
-----------------------------------------
May the Force grant us
the Wisdom to discover the Right,
the Will to choose it,
and the Strength to make it endure.
LyteFoot
Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:01 am
#55
I've been giving this a lot of thought and I'm going to retract support for the XP. I forgot about the fact that you had to wait 24 hours if you failed the quest. There is also the fact you have to go out and get a number of people to listen to you perform for one or more of the phases. There is enough effort in this quest without requiring us to gather XP.


I'm not opposed to things having an XP cost, if it is post master content. However that cost should not be combined with other costs. Its either use my XP or faction points to buy something or complete a quest to earn something. Mixing the two, especially for something that is a small reward in the scheme of the game, is over the top. I know there is a lot of work preparing new songs and dances but I doubt it was nearly as much work as the corvette, DWB, village, and other combat content.


NewJedi do they give the correspondents any indication of population mix? I'd be curious to see what percentage of players have what skill mixes. It seems every power gamer has a musician/dancer/doc alt to keep from having to depend on others. Surely the characters with entertainment in their skill set is fairly high, but I guess the devs could claim that active ents don't exist by my same reasoning :-/.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
MusicalDina
Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:11 am
#56

Thats just it New Jedi. I dont think we should need more development time. I think the quests are just fine as they are. I just hate, hate, the idea of having to BUY our rewards after we have earned them.


My point was saying that if the DEVS thought our quest wasnt enough to earn the rewards why bother with a quest then? What is the point of doing a quest when you will have to buy the reward afterwards?



what bothers me perhaps the most of all of this is that this is the first new song since live. Over a year. And we have to go above and beonf bending over backwards to get it. Our quest is good content. I like where they were going with it, even if you do have to repeat the same thing 3 times. I just dont understand why in the world the devs just GAVE UP on our quests.


This is how i see it, no matter how skewed, i cannot find another explanation to justify having to buy our rewards.


SOE DEV1 "Geez, i think we dont have enough time to finish these entertainer quests."

SOE DEV2 "Entertainer quests? What are those?"

SOE DEV3 "Eh? Just some side thing we were told to put ingame in our free time."

SOE DEV1 "Yeah. Still i wish i could finish them. Right now there is only three quests."

SOE DEV3 "That should be enough. Just make them repeat it three time"

SOE DEV1 "I still dont think thats hard enough."

SOE DEV2 "Ok, but we have no more time. Just make them spend XP for it."



I am really seeing this as more step-on-the-entertainers here NJ. Perhaps it is the year of being a rug that i have become pessimistic.


I would have been more than satisfied with the quests, had there been no xp requirement. I would just like ONE reason why there is a price on our reward, besides the time we spend doing the quest. I have heard a lot of skirting around the issue, but no reason. There is no reason besides the devs just not thinking the quest was a big enough time sink, or not being hard enough. In that case why not finish them? Why just do it half assed like the rest of everything done to entertainers. Heck they have had a year to get this song in game, you are telling me they never thought about how to implement it?



DinaJa Erso
Master Doctor
Master Musician
NewJedi
Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:32 am
#57
It's not true that no other profession has to earn post-Master content. You get various craftable items as loot from various theme parks, but you can't use them right away. You have to find a Master crafter, and often you have to find an uncommon loot drop as well and give that to the crafter too. Then you may well have to pay the crafter a hefty chunk of cash to do the work for you. Besides, there is NO other post-Master content in the game nearly as important to any other profession as this song is to us. That's why it should be earned, not given away.


If things are just handed to me for doing a one- or two-hour quest, I feel like it's too easy. Yes, that should be the approach for every profession in the game. To some extent, it already is. But insofar as there is variance, the important thing to me is: is my own profession getting new content that involves some effort? This is a game, not a discrimination lawsuit; I care about whether my profession is fun, not whether some other profession is fun.


I have absolutely no problem with a post-Master XP requirement. Plenty of Musicians have told me the same in tells, PMs, and posts on these boards. Some of you disagree, and I've passed your views on to the devs. But I'll tell you again that it's extremely unlikely they're going to remove the XP requirement altogether.


And 400K is a drop in the Jedi bucket.



LyteFoot
Fri Sep 24, 2004 8:39 am
#58
Often the loot is handed to a guild mate crafter. There is very little effort getting these other loot items, heck I see AV-21 for sale. The special items needed are often found in excess like heavy clasps for aprons. My guild had a pile of those before our teammate got to the master level to make the thing. The XP cost was in mastering the profession not in building more XP after mastering.


I agree the cost isn't huge, I've almost got it just from playing my normal game after hitting master. The problem is that it isn't master content because a novice musician in the right spot on the skill tree can buy it. If it is all about experience then make it so only a master can understand the music and use it. Then it becomes true post-master content and requires us to spend skill points and XP to use the song. It isn't like there are a lot of songs you can build with virtuoso so it would be nice to have a master only song that is enjoyable.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
Aleyo
Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:11 am
#59
NewJedi wrote:
I have absolutely no problem with a post-Master XP requirement. Plenty of Musicians have told me the same in tells, PMs, and posts on these boards. Some of you disagree, and I've passed your views on to the devs. But I'll tell you again that it's extremely unlikely they're going to remove the XP requirement altogether.
And 400K is a drop in the Jedi bucket.



This is starting to get on my nerves...
IT'S NOT POST-MASTER CONTENT!
If they want to make it a requirement to be master to take the quests and leave the xp requirement, then yeah, I'll still think it's lazy to make it xp instead of some other player-skill related requirement, but I won't do more than grumble.
But as it is now, being able to take the quests as a NOVICE, the xp requirement is a) not fitting to the quest-requirement, since you can't get that much as a novice, and b) not supportive of the up and coming musician.
People, please stop rationalizing away our concerns with the words "post-master" unless they change something.

Message Edited by Aleyo on 09-24-2004 12:48 PM



Scipionus Mentus
Master Musician, Master Entertainer, Master Dancer - Tempest
-I support ATK people and playstyles.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."

Warryyr
Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:18 am
#60




NewJedi wrote:

It's not true that no other profession has to earn post-Master content. You get various craftable items as loot from various theme parks, but you can't use them right away. You have to find a Master crafter, and often you have to find an uncommon loot drop as well and give that to the crafter too. Then you may well have to pay the crafter a hefty chunk of cash to do the work for you. Besides, there is NO other post-Master content in the game nearly as important to any other profession as this song is to us. That's why it should be earned, not given away.


If things are just handed to me for doing a one- or two-hour quest, I feel like it's too easy. Yes, that should be the approach for every profession in the game. To some extent, it already is. But insofar as there is variance, the important thing to me is: is my own profession getting new content that involves some effort? This is a game, not a discrimination lawsuit; I care about whether my profession is fun, not whether some other profession is fun.


I have absolutely no problem with a post-Master XP requirement. Plenty of Musicians have told me the same in tells, PMs, and posts on these boards. Some of you disagree, and I've passed your views on to the devs. But I'll tell you again that it's extremely unlikely they're going to remove the XP requirement altogether.


And 400K is a drop in the Jedi bucket.




This quest is playable and can be completed by Novice Musicians and Novice Dancers. It's not post-Master content.


As to whether 400k is a drop in the Jedi bucket:


That's 40k of FS xp. I don't care it if it's 100 FS xp.


What other profession, in the game right now, is forced to choose between new content and FS xp. Who else has to impede their FS process for the sake of gaining new content in their profession.


As I've said, it's not our fault the Devs didn't make the Entertainer Quest challenging or immersive enough. i certainly don't want to just get anything FREE. But it's not FREE. We do the QUEST.


If the QUEST is so MEANINGLESS why have it put in the game at all.


LeBob
Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:43 pm
#61




MusicalDina wrote:

Adding one more thing.



If you think that the xp requirement makes it sufficiently hard so the reward is worth it. Why doesnt SOE just make the quest harder than?





You get an apple and ask for a grove of them?


SOE is not making it harder because they don't know how to and would not have the resources (willingness) to do so even if they did. Maybe you do not know about the Corellian Corvette........ SBDs... yeah... content.. right!

I think we should be more realistic here... If we are to not have the xp requirement then the quest will be even more lame and stupid like the SBDs and other combat theme parks.


The way it is currently, we can "quest" on our on time and at our leisure as we please... by gaining xp.


imho




SWGEntertainer.com
Emperor Palpatine (from "Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith"):
"Every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic. Do what must be done. Do not hesitate. Show no mercy."
-I support ATK people and playstyles.
Account cancelled as of June 23, 2005

NewJedi
Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:31 pm
#62
Nicely said, LeBob.


OK, it's not strictly speaking "post Master content." I suspect some Musicians are going to at least get to 4040 before they do this quest, and by the time you're at 4040, you're well on the way to 4444. But even if it's not post Master content, it's new content all the same. This content gives us a class-defining ability. This isn't just a nice leotard or a carbine with slightly different stats or a nice new land vehicle. It's a new song. In fact, it's avery cool new song. It deserves the same respect as our other songs, and those were earned with XP.
sweatyclimber
Fri Sep 24, 2004 5:07 pm
#63




NewJedi wrote:

Nicely said, LeBob.


OK, it's not strictly speaking "post Master content." I suspect some Musicians are going to at least get to 4040 before they do this quest, and by the time you're at 4040, you're well on the way to 4444. But even if it's not post Master content, it's new content all the same. This content gives us a class-defining ability. This isn't just a nice leotard or a carbine with slightly different stats or a nice new land vehicle. It's a new song. In fact, it's avery cool new song. It deserves the same respect as our other songs, and those were earned with XP.





i don't think anyone is trying to slight the new song, it is a cool new song but its not like we should all bow down and kiss the dirt either... this song (any new one) was prommised eons ago and then we were ignored... adding this new song adds content to all classes not just our own. Further there was suposed to be a new instrament but aparently it has disapeared.... now if we need to loot it somehow or find peices and assemble it so few would have it... THAT would be class defining... especially if it moded something like buffs.... not playing a new song... that just adds color to us and the game for all players.



Cheers,

famousFATWOOKIE
Master musician, Master entertainer of Mos Oasis
-I support ATK people and playstyles.
Find FFWB Here!A SWG History
MusicalDina
Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:40 pm
#64
no if the quest is lame the quest is lame, no xp requirement is going to make it a cool quest.


making us use our xp for the song has nothing to do with our quest. If that were the case, they would make you play for umpteen hours before letting you do the next quest.



This xp requirement is too much like buying our reward, and it is a LARGE cost. Sure most master musicians have that laying around, i do. i dont plan on using the xp for anything either.


I dont understand why people would support this in any way. Have yet to hear a reason behind it. The only thing i keep hearing is that it makes it worthwhile. How does it make it worthwhile? I still dont see it other than a failure at making the quest what SOE thinks it should be. Personally i think it SHOULD be easy to get. I would go as far as saying it should be given to us.


We dont have that many songs as it is. this make 10 with master ent. Why should it be hard to get songs? So we have something to do? To make us feel special, like we have accomplished something? what has 400k xp have to do with accomplishing something? Any AFKBOT can get it easier than a non afk person.


The 400k xp doesnt help anybody. Doesnt make the quest worthwhile, or hard. It only hurts those who want to do FS, and feels way too much like a lack of thought. 400k xp = 15+ hours playing, any weapon you have made for you costs 15k-300k about 60-120 minutes of work?



If SOE wants us to spend time doing the quest, make the quest long, dont just say ok now give me all your xps.



Just off the top of my head how much xp does the ring of hero cost?



To clear it up to what im disgruntled about:


1. the xp requirement looks horribly like a lack of thought on SOE. Like they couldnt think of anything else for us to do so they just said fine just make them spend xp.


2. the xp requirement helps nobody, adds nothing to the accomplishment, and penalizes players. It does, however, make it take longer to get the song.


3. there is NO other quest in game that requires you to pay xp.





DinaJa Erso
Master Doctor
Master Musician
JohnMarble
Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:25 pm
#65
Grindingexperience should be left to the achiever types. They love that, actually. Leave it in the jedi village where it belongs. Socializers or Explorers are already stressedwith the enticement of an extra slot as it is. When I'm out truely entertaining, in a real band, we are not concerned with experience at all.We types of players, those using bandflos, are punished.


What the developers are doing, in essence, is placing an Achiever style goal in a Socializer's professionquest.Right--as they introducean Achiever themepark, whichdoes attract Explorers, Killers and Socializers. It is almost a paradigm shift in the game philosophy. The Socializers are under attack from all sides, obsolete,now they are being squeezed to become achievers.


Do the developers truely understand what it is they are doing?


Anyway, I scored lowest as achiever on that bartle test. Why I'm not really here.
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