Musician Archive
Thread: how to kill a buffbot
Rubicon48BC wrote:I am currently powerleveling a Master Dancer/Musician for use in our own playercity. (With powerleveling I mean the toon is online 23 hours a day in weekends and about 19 hours a day during the week). Once he is done he will be in the cantina of our playercity, thus enabling the members of my PA to get mindbuffed in our own town.I understand the predicament with ATK entertainers, but the truth is that hologrinding and playercities have damaged your profession to a point where it will be hard to salvage. Hopefully the hologrind will come to an end soon enough and you will have the cantinas in major cities all to yourself again. If cantinas subsequently return to a more 'social' location, you might attract a lot of customers back to you, provided you are willling to provide the service they need.Unfortunately I too have found too many master dancers and musicians unwilling to buff or simply ignoring me alltogether even when ATK to rely on them. A problem that will remain is that with playercities, the characters are much more spread out, resulting in often empty player city cantinas. Which are in turn not very attractive for live entertainers, and thus good 'huntinggrounds' for an AFK buffbot. We have a large player city (120+ inhabitants) and I am afraid that even there an ATK entertainer would soon be bored to tears.You could conceivably kill AFK entertaining with a gamepatch, but all that means is that the difference between the 'haves' (big PA's such as mine) and the 'have-nots' (unguilded players without alts and such) will only get bigger. I hope that there will be enough ATK entertainers to remove the need for ATK buffers, but I am afraid it will not happen. One solution would be though to make musician/dancer buffs last 3 hours, just as doctor buffs now do. That way, people will have to get new buffs of both at the same time, increasing the chance they will go to a major city to get them.
No offense, but don't try to show sympathy to us when you're about to grief us (yes, we consider the creation of a buffbot griefing). Don't say "I hope your problems are eventually fixed" while then contributing directly to the problem.
That said, you made some good observations about the difficulty of salvaging our profession. Look on the musician board for my "which came first, the chicken or the egg" post to see some discussion about the fact that we, the atk players, cannot salvage it on our own.
Also, your suggestion about the 3 hour buffs would be helpful (but ultimately not enough to save us), and is a good idea, both for our sake and the sake of those using our buffs.
PoetDancer wrote:Its kind of like putting a special order on your public vendor. Sure you can label the backpack, but what is preventing anyone from buying it? One has no leg to stand on when they open themselves up to things like this without taking precautions. Similarly, if you place a character in the game world to manipulate the game without being there to monitor it, and assert no control over who can be invited, then you cannot blame the person who killed the unattended character. You can only blamethe buffbot'scode for inviting the character in the first place. After all, if a player were at the tools of play, a death by this means would never have to occur. So no. There is no griefing when a player kills an unattended character. Because the death would never have occurred if the unattended character did not have /invite or /join in its preprogrammed code, or was able to observe what was being done in order to stop it.
Just a question: How is any entertainer, even an atk one supposed to know that that squadleader that they just invited into his group for a buff is going to greif them?
Rubicon48BC wrote:
Touchy subject I see
But I still disagree. While I feel for you and would like to see an equitable solution to the problem, I am not willing to sacrifice my own gameplay because you have a problem. It's very simple. I am in need of musician/dancer buffs. I can hardly get them reliably and even semi-conveniently from any entertainer under the current circumstances. Therefore I use the system as it is written to provide myself and my friends with the needed buffs.
You may dislike that, but that is simply the way it works, and until it is fixed, I will continue to do so.
Right. And, similarly, we are not willing to sacrifice our gameplay because you have a problem. Until and unless the buffbot situation is taking care of, you will never, never, see entertainers backing down on this. It is the single biggest problem facing us and our viability. We will fight to the death...whether that means until we quit the game or the game goes out of business. There is absolutely no amount of justification for a buffbot. So, continue to use your buffbot while pretending you have sympathy for entertainers. But, I don't believe it, and neither do most people. If you were truly sympathetic to the plight of the entertainer you would show your support by not using methods to utterly destroy us. For that is what you are doing. But, that's fine, continue to use them while you can. Everyone else will continue to use them while they can as well. But, rest assured, we will be fighting about it until either they are removed or our buffs are made better than an afk buff. This is far too important to us to let it go.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Drygo wrote:
Rubicon48BC wrote:
Touchy subject I see
But I still disagree. While I feel for you and would like to see an equitable solution to the problem, I am not willing to sacrifice my own gameplay because you have a problem. It's very simple. I am in need of musician/dancer buffs. I can hardly get them reliably and even semi-conveniently from any entertainer under the current circumstances. Therefore I use the system as it is written to provide myself and my friends with the needed buffs.
You may dislike that, but that is simply the way it works, and until it is fixed, I will continue to do so.
Right. And, similarly, we are not willing to sacrifice our gameplay because you have a problem. Until and unless the buffbot situation is taking care of, you will never, never, see entertainers backing down on this. It is the single biggest problem facing us and our viability. We will fight to the death...whether that means until we quit the game or the game goes out of business. There is absolutely no amount of justification for a buffbot. So, continue to use your buffbot while pretending you have sympathy for entertainers. But, I don't believe it, and neither do most people. If you were truly sympathetic to the plight of the entertainer you would show your support by not using methods to utterly destroy us. For that is what you are doing. But, that's fine, continue to use them while you can. Everyone else will continue to use them while they can as well. But, rest assured, we will be fighting about it until either they are removed or our buffs are made better than an afk buff. This is far too important to us to let it go.
Drygo, I think we all want the server to be flooded with Entertainers and the need for buffbots to vanish. I agree the solution to this is making ATK buffs better then AFK buffs. Then people will use them, and AFK buffbots will dwindle.
With the current situation, what exactly should people do? He already said that it is very hard for him to find mind buffs. The only reason that he made it was cause mind buffs were un-reliable. Should every single person just go on strike from AFK bots? How will they fight, what will they do? If it's already hard to get mind buffs, what does he gain by staying that way?
He earns respect, the friendship of dancers and musicians who actually play if only he took the time to seek them out. The ability to get buffs practically on demand from live dancers and musicians that he considers friends (boy, I can't count the times I've planet hopped for my friends.) By putting forth a little effort into actually recruiting, respecting, and supporting some master dancers and musicians on your server into your guild, you will find that you aren't lacking. Back when I was guilded, I was on call quite often. But then, I ended up leaving due to other issues. Why do you think the RP guilds don't seem to need buffs that much? Well, quite frankly, RP guilds are generally very entertainer friendly, have a decent sized population of entertainers, and don't really have to go looking.
And, to answer your question...what would you do? Well, you know what, I wish I could buff myself. I can't. There have been many, many times I wish I had a musician and/or dancer buff but couldn't find one. You know what I did? I went out and I fought anyway, without them. Because I've been playing a year, amassed some wealth pre-buffbots, and have TK skills I've been lucky enough to amass a decent amount of money. I've killed a lot of things and been killed a lot. I've participated in PvE and PvP. I died. A lot. I have helped take out turrets and bases, I have had bases and turrets destroyed. Sometimes I have mindbuffs, sometimes I do not. Thems the breaks. Buffs are a service to be provided just like any other service. Sometimes you find you need, sometimes you don't. Sometimes, heaven forbid, I gotta travel all the way to Coronet and stand in line for a doctor buff. Then I'll go searching around for entertainer buffs. Sometimes I find them, sometimes I don't. When I don't, I go fight anyway. I got my brandy. I got my muon. And, I have my pride as a dancer and the knowledge that I will never do anything to hurt the viability of my dancing and music playing brothers and sisters.
tIme2DiE wrote:
PoetDancer wrote:
Its kind of like putting a special order on your public vendor. Sure you can label the backpack, but what is preventing anyone from buying it? One has no leg to stand on when they open themselves up to things like this without taking precautions. Similarly, if you place a character in the game world to manipulate the game without being there to monitor it, and assert no control over who can be invited, then you cannot blame the person who killed the unattended character. You can only blamethe buffbot'scode for inviting the character in the first place. After all, if a player were at the tools of play, a death by this means would never have to occur. So no. There is no griefing when a player kills an unattended character. Because the death would never have occurred if the unattended character did not have /invite or /join in its preprogrammed code, or was able to observe what was being done in order to stop it.
Just a question: How is any entertainer, even an atk one supposed to know that that squadleader that they just invited into his group for a buff is going to greif them?
Rubicon48BC wrote:
Sorry, fighting without mindbuffs is not an option in PvP at the moment, unless you really like cloning centers a lot. Even if I don't use a buffbot, my enemies will andI will certainly lose. So I will get my mindbuff whatever way I have to.
And with this kind of arrogant attitude, which I unfortunately see in a lot of online entetainers as well, I might just have to keep my buffbot for buffing my PA when I'm online to do it. I have 2 computers, which I can both dual or triple box, so that is not a problem.
What kind of arrogant attitude are you seeing? The will to protect my profession?
It's quite obvious from me that you, my friend, are the arrogant and petty person who is now considering leaving up your buffbot 23/7 out of sheer spite, hate, and disrespect. You wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last. But, at least now I know that you aren't someone that I need to respect.
Drygo wrote:
Rubicon48BC wrote:
Sorry, fighting without mindbuffs is not an option in PvP at the moment, unless you really like cloning centers a lot. Even if I don't use a buffbot, my enemies will andI will certainly lose. So I will get my mindbuff whatever way I have to.
And with this kind of arrogant attitude, which I unfortunately see in a lot of online entetainers as well, I might just have to keep my buffbot for buffing my PA when I'm online to do it. I have 2 computers, which I can both dual or triple box, so that is not a problem.
What kind of arrogant attitude are you seeing? The will to protect my profession?
It's quite obvious from me that you, my friend, are the arrogant and petty person who is now considering leaving up your buffbot 23/7 out of sheer spite, hate, and disrespect. You wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last. But, at least now I know that you aren't someone that I need to respect.
The arrogant attitude that I am seeing is that entertainers are too busy entertaining themselves and their closest friends who hang out at cantinas a lot. Too busy to take a few minutes of their time to respond to a question at all, and now get all defensive when people seek a work-around to their arrogance. I admit, I am not someone who hangs out in cantinas a lot, therefore I know few musicians/dancers, and maybe that is the reason I find it difficult to get buffs.
I have no spite, hate or disrespect towards you or anyone. All I want is to get a service I need when it is convenient. If live players are unable or unwilling to provide that service, for which I am more than willing to pay, then I will find another way.
The issue is perhaps that the clash between entertainers and the users of buffbots is that the first is looking for an RP environment, while many of the second want to go out and kill things. These things rarely mix. As a result, priorities are different. An entertainer wants company in the cantina to enjoy his gameplay and will seek out other entertainers. Thus Theed and Coronet are full. Combat characters want entertainers to be in their player city cantina when preparing for a raid, in a camp near the DWB when raiding or in a cantina on Dathomir when hunting.
Both are valid desires, but not really compatible, and the fact that a lot of people have left and others have spread out due to player cities only aggravates the problem. So, you enjoy your game in the cantina of Theed and I will enjoy mine wherever I choose to hunt, raid or whatever. Until I feel comfortable that entertainers will be available when and where I need them, I will continue to use my buffbot. So sue me.
Rubicon48BC wrote:
The arrogant attitude that I am seeing is that entertainers are too busy entertaining themselves and their closest friends who hang out at cantinas a lot. Too busy to take a few minutes of their time to respond to a question at all, and now get all defensive when people seek a work-around to their arrogance. I admit, I am not someone who hangs out in cantinas a lot, therefore I know few musicians/dancers, and maybe that is the reason I find it difficult to get buffs.
Well, I apologize for other people's behavior. I dunno those people I guess. I just have a different observation. If you see me in a Cantina, except on the very very rare occasion I might actually be doing a "performance" with a group, and you ask me for a mind buff you will get one. And, when there is another master dancer or musician in a Cantina, I very rarely find that they don't give buffs.
I have no spite, hate or disrespect towards you or anyone. All I want is to get a service I need when it is convenient. If live players are unable or unwilling to provide that service, for which I am more than willing to pay, then I will find another way.
The issue is perhaps that the clash between entertainers and the users of buffbots is that the first is looking for an RP environment, while many of the second want to go out and kill things. These things rarely mix. As a result, priorities are different. An entertainer wants company in the cantina to enjoy his gameplay and will seek out other entertainers. Thus Theed and Coronet are full. Combat characters want entertainers to be in their player city cantina when preparing for a raid, in a camp near the DWB when raiding or in a cantina on Dathomir when hunting.
It's not even that so much, really. I mean, while I enjoy RP, I'm not hardcore about it. But, you're right in that we want company. I'm sure you will easily admit how boring it would be to be in a Cantina all by yourself for a greater portion of the day waiting for a random fighter to come in and out. I don't think anybody should be expected to put themselves through that. I have a feeling that you don't either. So the problem is, how do we fulfill your needs while not having to go through torturous amounts of boring alone time.
Both are valid desires, but not really compatible, and the fact that a lot of people have left and others have spread out due to player cities only aggravates the problem. So, you enjoy your game in the cantina of Theed and I will enjoy mine wherever I choose to hunt, raid or whatever. Until I feel comfortable that entertainers will be available when and where I need them, I will continue to use my buffbot. So sue me.
In my mind this is not justification for a buffbot. The fact of the matter is, and I must have said this a thousand times already, that if there is not a doctor around, or a weaponsmith around, or whatever it is, that you need around, what do you do? You have to go find one. It should be no different for entertainers. Just because you can't find someone who is willing, and rightfully so, to stand bored out of their skull in your Cantina for hours on end, alone, and doing nothing else, is not a justification to help ruin the professions of dancer and musician. Do you have any idea how many less people I mind buff now than I did 6 months ago? People like to pretend that their buffbot is this innocuous thing because it's relegated to a player Cantina. Whereas, the reality is, there are so many of them these "hidden" buffbots around that people no longer come to Theed or Coronet for buffs. I used to be able to give non stop buffs and make a good deal of money. Now, I can't even go to Coronet, Theed, or even the Mining Outpost on Dantooine, and get more than 5 customers an hour because people are using the resident and PA buffbots. And, if you insist on contributing this problem, then you need to face the reality. And, that reality is that you are joining the cause and the people who helped contribute to the exact same situation that you are upset about in the first place. For every buffbot that is created, that is another live dancer or musician that is going to get fed up at the lack of business and not go to the Cantinas for you. Making more buffbots is not the solution. The solution is getting rid of them, and then we will return.
Drygo wrote:
Rubicon48BC wrote:
The arrogant attitude that I am seeing is that entertainers are too busy entertaining themselves and their closest friends who hang out at cantinas a lot. Too busy to take a few minutes of their time to respond to a question at all, and now get all defensive when people seek a work-around to their arrogance. I admit, I am not someone who hangs out in cantinas a lot, therefore I know few musicians/dancers, and maybe that is the reason I find it difficult to get buffs.
Well, I apologize for other people's behavior.
.......
It's not even that so much, really. I mean, while I enjoy RP, I'm not hardcore about it. But, you're right in that we want company. I'm sure you will easily admit how boring it would be to be in a Cantina all by yourself for a greater portion of the day waiting for a random fighter to come in and out. I don't think anybody should be expected to put themselves through that. I have a feeling that you don't either. So the problem is, how do we fulfill your needs while not having to go through torturous amounts of boring alone time.
........
In my mind this is not justification for a buffbot. The fact of the matter is, and I must have said this a thousand times already, that if there is not a doctor around, or a weaponsmith around, or whatever it is, that you need around, what do you do? You have to go find one. It should be no different for entertainers. Just because you can't find someone who is willing, and rightfully so, to stand bored out of their skull in your Cantina for hours on end, alone, and doing nothing else, is not a justification to help ruin the professions of dancer and musician. Do you have any idea how many less people I mind buff now than I did 6 months ago? People like to pretend that their buffbot is this innocuous thing because it's relegated to a player Cantina. Whereas, the reality is, there are so many of them these "hidden" buffbots around that people no longer come to Theed or Coronet for buffs. I used to be able to give non stop buffs and make a good deal of money. Now, I can't even go to Coronet, Theed, or even the Mining Outpost on Dantooine, and get more than 5 customers an hour because people are using the resident and PA buffbots. And, if you insist on contributing this problem, then you need to face the reality. And, that reality is that you are joining the cause and the people who helped contribute to the exact same situation that you are upset about in the first place. For every buffbot that is created, that is another live dancer or musician that is going to get fed up at the lack of business and not go to the Cantinas for you. Making more buffbots is not the solution. The solution is getting rid of them, and then we will return.
