Musician Archive

"So what are you planning on spending skill points on? You can't be everything. Straight Musicians are different from all around entertainers. If you want to be an entertainer, thats a different skill set than being a master musician.

To paint an example:

Yo-Yo Ma is an master musician. Nobody can disagree with that statement. He is not a master entertainer, like, say Wayne Newton. Wayne Newton is a heck of a good entertainer, but not a master musician. Wayne Newton plays the lowly guitar, but Yo-Yo Ma does not. Can Yo-Yo ma learn the guitar? Sure. I bet he would smoke Wayne in a battle of the bands. Guess what, Yo-Yo didn't spend the points to learn the skill. "


I've totally failed to see your point? You say you can't be everything -- THANK YOU, that's exactly what I'm saying. No you can't be everything. You especailly can't be EVERYTHING when you bypass Master Entertainer on your way to Master Musician. You can speculate all you want about "yo-yo ma" and his ability to play guitar if he wanted to. We'll never know. Personally I bet he would completely suck at playing the guitar. Just because you play one instrument well as a MUSICIAN doesn't mean you can succesfully do a little bit of everything like an entertainer. I play guitar well, I cannot under any circumstances, play the trumpet - I just can't do it, but I play a mean guitar.

I don't know why I wasted that much time writing that, because I totally didn't understnad how anything you posted supported your position or critiqed mine. It just seemed like a complete nonsequitor to me. I believe if you want to be able to play every single song and instrument in the game you should be FORCED to become a MASTER ENTERAINER. Fortunately SoE agrees.

Sel

Oh I forgot to answer... my points are going into Master Muscian, some Image Design and Master Pikemen with some Scouting skills. I'm the singing, dancing, fighting sorta lady.

Sel

Selwynn:
Because I believe not becoming a MASTER entertainer means there should be things in your chosen line that you don't... master.

But, if your chosen line is musician, and you MASTER musician, there are things in your chosen line that you don't... master. If mastering musician skills was MEANT to require mastering entertainment skills, the Musician profession should have had Master Entertainer as a prerequisite, not Musicianship IV and Entertainment Healing IV.

Bad enough we've got to go up two disciplines of healing to play different instruments, we also have to go up another two disciplines of non-musical skills as well!

And Hijo,
This thread is about image design and dance being a part of master entertainer... not about your desires to have mandoviol.

You didn't read the very first message in this thread. You seem not to read the entire thread yourself, in just about every post I've seen you make. This thread's SUBJECT is "Why you need ID&D for ME" but the first message raises the TOPIC of the wayward instrument in the opening sentence of its second paragraph, with the second sentence being "Ahh the real question."

Xphilos, your arguement is flawed.A Master Droid engineer can not make all of the droids unless he is also a Master Artisan.Some of the top model droids requires partsthat can only bemade by a Master Artisan. Granted, a droid engineer can find a Master Artisan and purchase those parts but that is the penalty a droid engineer suffers for not being aMaster Artisan. As a matter of fact, all of the unique crafting professions have schematics that they can not make without either being a Master Artisan or finding one willing to sell/give them the parts.

To be honest, everyone is suggesting taking the mand from master entertainers. Why suggest a nerf to a class when you can just ask the developers to add a similiar instrument to the musican knowledge line that isn't as good as the one a master entertainer can use.

oh yea forgot something

"Having said all that I would much rather see somethinglike a special lighting effect for the Master Entertainer that is always on, sort of like they always have a spot light on them so that they stick out in a crowded Cantina. this is something that will help them earn tips as they stick out from other musicans/dancers. Then you can move the song and instrament into the musican line."

oh yea great idea give people that work very hard an extremely annoying light that will piss people off

those stupid lightshows are already annoying enough without them being stuck permenetly on

how the hell would you make tips by blinding people?

"The trazz or another slitherhorn variation should be at master entertainer NOT the ONLY stringed instrument in the game. As master musician I feel cheated about having to spend another 20 points on something I'll never use such as dance or hair styling. Dancers have variations on dances they already have yet the devs screwed musicians over FORCING them to blow the points on worthless skills to get the instrument.This MUST be addressed"

sooooo as a reward for our hard work I get an instrument that I already have 3 of teh same sounding instrument before I even reach musician?

no that's not a reward it's stupid

it's like how they switched dancing ME used to have Exotic and one other really nice one now it's a vartaition of the worst dance footloose..... yea so all taht hard work is crap.

I put alot of hard extra workinto it and went teh extra mile,

if your to lazyorfrugal with your skill pointsto do it you don't deserve the instrument.

@ Sinloi :: Let me ask you this have you ever pressed "Ctrl + L" in the game while in a Cantina? If so you will see what your personal light source looks like, it isn't blinding (and rather usefull in the dark cantinas) and helps light up your character.

Now have you ever seen what a spot light looks like in real life? The way the main actor on stage is surroned by a nice light, not blinding, but something that makes them stand out from the rest of the set? That is what I'm talking about not some silly light show that no body really uses unless they are board or have hit master ( why doesn't the light show earn xp like a flourish?). Heck it sort of be cool if they allowed for always on variations of this such as a hologram that simulated balls floating around the character or some other interesting way to draw atention to the character.

Mandoviol and Ceremonial at master entertainer give the master musician something else to strive for. If you squandered your points and can't afford master entertainer then that was your decision. It's not like it's irreversible.

so a patheticly weak light? oh well taht's different

okay let me put it anotehr way I put hard work into getting my mando if you whining bastards get it taken away from me I'll quit... it'll be a good enough reason working that hard to get a traz or a ctrl l lightsource everyone can see is JACK

I have a problem with an inherent logical flaw in the mandoviol not being able to be played by a non-Master Entertainer Master Musician....as a Master Musician, I will be able to make a mandoviol. Heck, i don't even need to be a master to make one. And it seems logical to me that baing able to make an instrument requires knowledge on how to play one. How would you tune it? How would you test its sound?


How about this for an idea.....move bandfill playing ability into the Master Entertainer field. This would give a Master Entertainer one of the more crowd-pleasing instruments to play a lot earlier than a master musician would have a similar sounding instrument. Add the Mandoviol to Musical Knowledge II, where the bandfill had been.

And now the more interesting suggestion....

Allow ONLY a master Entertainer to be able to MAKE a mandoviol, but also allow them to play it as well. This would make the position very much in demand, yet would take nothing away from the abilities of a Master Musician. It would also answer the logical arguement of not being able to play what I create.

With this idea, a Master Entertainer becomes highly valuable to a Master Musician for he/she would be the only way the Master Musician coueld get a mandoviol. The added bandfill ability doesn't rob the master musician of that kind of instrument completely (just has to wait until the onmibox to be able to play that kind of instrumrnt), the Ceremonial Song would still remain unique to the Master Entertainer, and the Master Musician is no longer robbed of the ability to USE every kind of instrument in the game. On top of this, put in a few hairstyles unique to the master Entertainer, put at least one of the exotic dances in there as well, and you have a well-rounded option for an entertainer who wants a little bit of everything in theier master Entertainer. And the master Musicians are now happy because they can forego the need to waste skill points on dancing and image design should they so choose.

What do you think?

Allura WindSinger, who is really gonna miss that mandoviol when skill point needs become tight, Naboo, Intrepid

I gotta say that while it was indeed tiring and annoying to get to master enterainer for my musician. It was more then worth it. And I personally don't want to see the sweat and blood I put into to getting to master enterainer be added to the musician tree now. I worked and spent hours doing this, I'm not a afk enterainer and did all of it, every level in it, personally doing the florishes. Now if you don't want to spend the skill points on it, you can still be a master musician. But if you want to complain because a master enterainerAND master musician there can do things you can't, well, frankly that's just too bad. Enteraining is a artform, it's a passion, it's not about money or XP, if you don't want to devote time and skill ability to get one song and instrument then that's ok, it's just one song and instrument. But if you have a real passion for doing this then you should be willing to make a sacrifce for it.

@KieSharku :: Thank you I'm glad to see there are people out there that are able to see the problem and try and think of a creative solution to it.

@Most Everyone Else :: No one is sayint Master Entertainer shouldn't be unique or have some reallly cool benifits, we are saying that the benifits it has now makes little to no sense. If you have an improved version of something that already exist then that makes sense, but a wholly unique aspect such as a one of a kind instrament seems a tad over the top. A modified version of an existing instrament makes sens, some new hair styles makes sense, a new version of a dance makes sense. A one of a kind item, and song ?!?! That just takes away from MM! If ME got Cerimonial and MM got Cerimonial 2 works for me, if ME got Mandovil and MM got Celo works for me. to give ME something that has not counter part in the MM line is just silly. Heck look at what the ME gets for new dances, modified versions of other dances, what do they get for new ID capabilities? Expanded versions of stuff they can already do.

Look at it this way and maybe you will see why MM feel cheated. And I say this as someone who plans to get ME as I want the extra song, and ID capabilites. I don't feel cheated about having to spend time and points working on Dance, but I do see and feel that ME shouldn't have a one of kind instrament when they don't have a one of a kind dance or some unique ID abilities.

Mastery of any of the base professions is not a great feat. I'm sorry if people think that mastering entertainer is a big deal, but it isn't. The entire professions equals less xp and time than the a single 4th tier box from an elite profession. Base professions should not have any rewards that are unique and unattainable by the elite professions. No other profession exhibits this problem. (Comparing the crafting system to usable skills is not the same either.) As an example, this case would be identical to a bioengineer being required to master medic to get a Krayt dragon. This is easily viewed as wrong, but I cannot see why the correlation between this example and ME is passing over people's heads.

Someone who masters an elite profession is a master of that profession. Being a musician is not just about playing instruments, it is about playing them well. Mozart never needed to jump across the stage and do high kicks with any instrument to be considered a Virtuoso. Some of the best guitar based songs entail a singer sitting on a chair playing the guitar. No fancy dancing there either, so I hardly believe that the mandoviol is an entertainer's instrument. It is a music instrument. A master entertainer needs skills that show he is a master of entertainment, not skills that show he is a unique musician, a mediocre dancer and a make-up artist that needs a heck of a lot more training.

The instrument, song, and dances should be removed from ME and placed in the knowledge lines of dancer and musician. ME should have these replaced by entertainment related skills that enhance their dancing or music, but by no means should ME's have a large reward for a base profession. This is the only case where a person must take a complete profession that isn't a prereq in order to obtain the skills of his profession. No other elite profession requires you togain your skills from a lesser profession like music and dance. Once you seperate crafting, there is not a single base profession that gives a unigue ability in the master box. Second, the abilities granted in the master box are easily negated by the elite profession bonuses and abilities. This is true in all cases except one. Wanna guess which one that is??

Killian Red-Bria