Musician Archive

You're right, you can't back those numbers up. I know that on my server of the people I have spoken to, there have been more people who want them moved than there are people who want to keep them there and even more people who don't seem to care but wouldn't mind if the moved them.

What does anyone's signature have to do with their opinion on this issue? I had no idea about how it was in beta until just a few days ago, yet my opinion is still the same. Mando and song are in the wrong place. SOE really needs to give all the entertainer professions some incentive to make ME, not just musicians. You should really stop making assumptions about where people's opinions are coming from.

Astriom wrote...

You're right, you can't back those numbers up. I know that on my server of the people I have spoken to, there have been more people who want them moved than there are people who want to keep them there and even more people who don't seem to care but wouldn't mind if the moved them.

What does anyone's signature have to do with their opinion on this issue? I had no idea about how it was in beta until just a few days ago, yet my opinion is still the same. Mando and song are in the wrong place. SOE really needs to give all the entertainer professions some incentive to make ME, not just musicians. You should really stop making assumptions about where people's opinions are coming from.
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My reply to what you just wrote.....get all those people you spoke to, to come over here and post. We can create a new topic and just let the masses vote. Then end of story. if the majority of the Master Entertainer / Master Musicians want it changed, so be it.

As far as the signature is concerned, you could possibly not even have a novice entertainer title, and are here to just troll the boards. As far as I am concerned, if you are not at least a novice musician, you have no voice on this board. Want to make a difference. Go train, if not, go away.

Durney Kova - Master Entertainer / Master Musician - Lowca

Astroim, Community,

I appologize for my my posts, they have become nothing mroe than flaming replies, whos intent is not constructive criticism, or even feedback.

I hope you can forgive me for my words....

Durney Kova - Master Entertainer / Master Musician - Lowca

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C_SKYWALKER wrote:

I take the exact opposite stand and am a Master Musician and a Master Entertainer as well. The Musician side of me should be what dictates my ability to play a toned musical instrument. There is no special dance that I get that Master Dancers who did not choose the ME path dont. There is no special ID skill that I get that an ID who does not go with ME does not...

BEING a musician in RL, I know a lot of people who "think" they can play an instrument but are actually tone deaf and do not realize how bad they sound.

My opinion: If you want ME's to have an instrument unique to them, give then a tambourine. Let them slap that around...

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I'm a musician in RL and I know plenty of people who are tone deaf too, but their profession is usually Droid Engineer. I know master musicians IRL that don't know every instrument. I know instrument makers that can't play what they make. I know instrument players IRL who can't make the instruments they play.

I don't see anything wrong with giving ME a unique instrument and song.

If you read the article about player cities, down near the bottom in the Building Up the City section, they mention this:

All of the new structures for player cities will be craftable by players. Parks, hospitals, and even the city hall will all be available to the new Urban Planner profession. This is an 'elite-elite' profession only available to those few who have mastered the Architect profession. (More 'elite-elite' professions will become available in the future.)

I think (hope)this is a good sign for musicians, and I can only hope that itwould extend the musician profession with new songs and instruments for obtaining these new levels of skill.

Of course, I know people that have gotten over a million (literally)Musician skill points after they reached master musician, so I hope that they also include some other requisite for the skills whenever this comes in.

-Gheti

Basically, what I've heard is that the Master Musicians want mandoviol and ceremonial, and want to give Master Entertainer some worthless other skill. They don't want to give ME something useful, or else they'll complain that they want that, too. I would say the easiest solution would be to update the manuals to say "Master Musicians can play most of the insts" or something. Seeing how that wouldn't really satsify anyone, something real must be done. To me, if Ceremonial, Mandoviol, or both were taken, many master Ents (including myself) would abandon the skill. Nobody is going to keep it for footloose2 or Formal2 (pretty much), and whatever useless skill you throw in, be it a light effect or some band flourish, is not going to be worth the skill points. The only way I can see having MM use the song/inst, and ME still be worthwhile, would be for novice Musician to have a prereq of ME. That, of course, would be awkwards and weird. As it is now, I think the MMs should just go get ME for the things they want, and the devs should leave it alone. 0.02

Cudayn said: "P.S. Something that has also been bothing me, the folks hollering the loudest for a Mandovil change are the ones that also do not have a sig. Hidding something?"

How could you possibly make this ad hominem suggestion? So what if a person doesn't have a sig? All a person who doesn't have a sig is hidding [sic] is some lame quote that no one wants to waste three seconds reading.

He already apologized. There is no edit button or he probably would have removed that already. Let it lie, we all stick our foots in our mouths sometimes. Now back to the debate. =)

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Cudayn wrote:
Lord Tigris Wrote...

The real way to spread the misery was to have made ID, Dance, and Music require ME before advancing in the elite trees. I'm grateful they didn't.

As for late changes by devs, well this one was 1 week prior to release. The whole instrument certification was put in 1 week before release. When they did that, they also just haphazardly threw the instruments around the tree with no thought to whre they landed. Someone may have thought that moving mandoviol into the ME slot was a good idea, but that doesn't make them right.
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Why is Master Entertainer misery? I didn't find it a miserable experience. I could have done without the dancing, but I have been kicking around the idea of going master Dancer as well as my ME and MM, so in hind sight, if I do, it actually turns out to be a blessing. Why do you think its such misery? I think I can answer that, because either you, or someone you knew was in beta and the way it was in beta, is the way it should be now.

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Long story short, I was using the words of the post directly above my post. However, I do stand by my analysis of the music certification system. There is no way they had any real time to think about this so close to release when they had so many other problems that would be far above this one. Some of which still are not fixed. I truly believe that this was more a fix for the songs as xp problem that was cutting out every new musician from every band.

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I'm a musician in RL and I know plenty of people who are tone deaf too, but their profession is usually Droid Engineer. I know master musicians IRL that don't know every instrument. I know instrument makers that can't play what they make. I know instrument players IRL who can't make the instruments they play.

I don't see anything wrong with giving ME a unique instrument and song.

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All the people I know that I would consider a "Master" Musician, CAN play every instrument (to some degree) even the first time they pick it up. And, it states in the skills section that a MM can play all songs with all instruments. I also know that I would NEVER buy an instrument from someone who made it, if they could not play it (automated factories excluded). I am talking about crafting here and it takes a pure musician through and through. I do agree with you on your last statement though. Once again, our debate is pointless as SOE themselves state that we should have the abilities described under CTRL+S, MM

Bener,

If what you were saying was the case here, then WHY havent they taken it off the IN-GAME desc????

<sigh> Because they are working on the millions of other serious BUGS right now. They'll get to it, don't worry.

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All the people I know that I would consider a "Master" Musician, CAN play every instrument (to some degree) even the first time they pick it up. And, it states in the skills section that a MM can play all songs with all instruments. I also know that I would NEVER buy an instrument from someone who made it, if they could not play it (automated factories excluded). I am talking about crafting here and it takes a pure musician through and through. I do agree with you on your last statement though. Once again, our debate is pointless as SOE themselves state that we should have the abilities described under CTRL+S, MM

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I emboldened the key part there. And you're right, we could debate till the cows come home. meh, I'll let this one sit for a few and come back to it after a few patches, then we'll see how my opinion has changed.