Musician Archive
Thread: A Master Entertainer / Master Musician speaks out...
Staburaz Wrote....
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Cudayn wrote:
I like the way the skill system is in place, and now I challenge you, to find in the current online manual, a description of where it says a Master Musician can play all instruments and play all songs.
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Ok I will accept your challenge. I will go to what has to be accepted as the most current document, the live product itself. Press ctl-s now select musican tree. Now place your mouse over the master musician box and read "The Master Musician knows all the songs and instruments available, and has all the tools to put on a professional performance." The key word there being "ALL".
Snorf
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I applaud you for tenacity, did you look at the "online manual"? I bet you did. Well with what you have shown me here, I have already noted in other posts and asked that it be changed. I was not ignorant of that fact, nor of the fact that you can view the rewards for each and every class inside the game before you even spend one skill point.
What the game says about the Master Musician, is what it was originally going to be. But they changed it before release. The game is in release now, and the DEVs are squashing bugs left and right and also trying to make the game as enjoyable for everyone as possible.
They will get around to minor changes once they have the bigger issues laid to rest. A bunch of musicians asking for a change is not going to sway them into action, at least not at the present time. We do not rank high on that to do list and I think you will all agree.
Why don't we all just go enjoy the game and let the boards take a break, you realize that since this morning we have almost 100 more posts in our boards? We are going to break them at this rate. It can't take the excitement
Durney Kova - Master Entertainer / Master Musician - Lowca
P.S. We all have the right to voice our opinions, and for the most part, this board in particular has been stellar in regards to civility, and I applaud everyone. Great job everyone!
OMG you are right! the out of date online manual doesnt even mention master musicians. So we shouldn't be a player class. Now I challenge you to look on page 3 of the sunday paper and prove that I am wrong.
Snorf
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/manual_detail.jsp?id=56895
Yeah that month old online guide is just pure trash, I think they should just dump it and rewrite it. But I am wrong none the less.
Durney Kova - Master Entertainer / master Musician - Lowca
In game when you hold your mouse over the Master Musician box in the skill window, the description it gives you is still "all instruments and songs."
Anyway, it has been said before and I'll say it again. The ME is a very unique profession, and is desired by many people. It is unique because it has a song and instrument that no one else can play. If you take those two things away, the ME is no longer unique. The image designers and dancers gain nothing that they don't already have by becoming a ME. Only the musicians have any incentive to make ME a priority.
And for those of you who already have ME and think it should remain the way it is, I would ask you if this is fair... Say thatIhad to jump off a 100 foot cliff in order to get this game.I jumped and got the game. Now, the opportunity arises to change the rules to get the game so that all you would have to do is walk down to the bottom. Is it fair to let the new guys walk downwhen I had to jump? If I argue that I had to jump so you should have to jump too, would you appreciate it or takeme seriously? Now if jumping off the cliff was the grind to get to ME and reaching the bottom to get the gamewas gaining the ability to play ceremonial and a mando, do you really think any of us are going to take your argument that you had to get ME so we should too, seriously?
Honestly, giving a dancer the ability to dance a variation of a dance they already have, when compared to a musician gaining a song and instrument they could not use or play, it really isn't fair or balanced. I suggest do one of two things that have already been mentioned in one or more posts by several people. Either give mando and ceremonial back to musicians and give ME something else to make them desireable and unique OR take away the exotic dance from dancers and the image desinger's ability to change a personsphysique (I'm not really surewhat an ID can do aside from hair, so I made something up)and give those abilities to ME.
SoonMotwrote:
Nope, master entertainer (thankfully) gives nothing to the Image Designer. Wookie's fur color is actually split between the hair and markings windows. =)
-Soon Mot
Master Image Designer
Lowca, Naboo, Theed
Just more proof that the only people who even have any intrest in ME are people who want to learn all the instraments !!! This was pulled from the ID forums...
The mandoviol is a great instrument, one of the best if not THE best in the musician class. So let's suppose there were no multiple variations of one of the most desired dances: exotic dancing. Suppose the ONLY way you could get the exotic dance was by being a ME. You'd have loads of dancers complaining "Why do I need to know music and hairstyling to dance??? It's not fair!! I wanna use those skill points in something else!"
What if something popular to Image Designing was placed in ME-only status (i'm not sure what the mandoviol/exotic dance equivalent would be, so let's use hair-coloring just for an example)? You'd get the obligatory crowd of image designers complaining that "Dancing and music has NOTHING to do with styling or coloring hair! It's not fair!"
So as it stands right now, ME is -NOT- fair. Only the musician has to go without if they choose to pass ME by. And until the dancers and the image designers have to give up something valuable and unique to THEM if they skip ME, I will continue to remain unconvinced by the "leave the mandoviol alone...it's our ME binkie!!" crowd.
Allura WindSinger, mesmerizing novice fencer of Naboo, Intrepid
KieSharku wrote:
The problem is that ME penalizes the pure Musician whereas it does not penalize the pure Dancer or the pure Image Designer. And that is wrong. If the ME is supposed to have something "meaningful" to it, fine...so long as EACH of the three entertainer branches gives something up to make ME "unique".
The mandoviol is a great instrument, one of the best if not THE best in the musician class. So let's suppose there were no multiple variations of one of the most desired dances: exotic dancing. Suppose the ONLY way you could get the exotic dance was by being a ME. You'd have loads of dancers complaining "Why do I need to know music and hairstyling to dance??? It's not fair!! I wanna use those skill points in something else!"
What if something popular to Image Designing was placed in ME-only status (i'm not sure what the mandoviol/exotic dance equivalent would be, so let's use hair-coloring just for an example)? You'd get the obligatory crowd of image designers complaining that "Dancing and music has NOTHING to do with styling or coloring hair! It's not fair!"
So as it stands right now, ME is -NOT- fair. Only the musician has to go without if they choose to pass ME by. And until the dancers and the image designers have to give up something valuable and unique to THEM if they skip ME, I will continue to remain unconvinced by the "leave the mandoviol alone...it's our ME binkie!!" crowd.
Allura WindSinger, mesmerizing novice fencer of Naboo, Intrepid
Why is a musician being penalized? Again, everyone believes that a musician should be able to play every song and every instrument. That just isn't practical. The people who are really getting penalized are those dancers and image designers who don't get anything really extra if they decide to go to master entertainer.
11.4. Musicianship
To start a song, you can use the command /startmusic [song name ] ( ex: /startmusic rock ).
The following songs are available to skilled musicians:
Star Wars 1
Folk
Ballad
Waltz
Jazz
Ceremonial <<<<
Rock
Star Wars 2
Virtuoso
Star Wars 3
Thanks for owning up to that Durney Kova. The online manual and the live software just dont jive. But then they seldom do with any software release. I suspect that is one of the reasons they came up with the corospondents for boards. /bug is a fairly worthless feature at this point in time. last one I did the ticket number was >600,000 . There is no way that any human has reviewed that many reports since release and still had the brain cells left to submit a report to the software team. Hence the new and improved "you can only have 1 bug report" feature
Ok, how is this for an idea of a reward for Musicians that do ME. The ability to walk around the catina while playing. That is something I think many of us would like to have and I guess you could say the dancing ability would give us the grace to do it. I am not sure how you could tie ID in with it. I will leave what would be a valid reward for the dancers and ID's to those who have fun playing those roles.
Snorf
Half of the software ever released these days has discrepancies between the documentation and the game,because the manuals are usually written a significant time before the game release. This is an understood practice, and it means nothing other than that something was changed late in development, perhapsto make what the developers felt were improvements or becausethey could not technically accomplish one of the features described. The developers made a good choice in this case.
Mandoviol +ceremonial= 34 skill points
Howmuch do you really want it?
Bener
I mentioned this in another thread but thought I would put it here as well (make it so ME is wanted by more then just the MM's):
Concerning Master Entertainer... Spread the misery of mastering Entertainer to Dancers and Image Designers (not just us Master Musicians). As it stands, only Musicians get any benefit from ME. Dancers get some chump base dance change to what they already have and don't really have any need for it. Image Designers don't get any benefits from ME either. Well, here is my idea on how to make ME more interesting to the other entertainment classes.
Make a new ME skill called "Dance With" command. What this would do, is allow for a dancer to target someone and grab them into a dance (maybe have a pop-up box to the target that says "So-and-So wants to dance with you. Yes/No". This would be based on what dance, the dancer has chosen. I'm not a Dancer (just grinded it so I could get ME), but I wouldn't mind getting in close for a slow dance to some of my cute twi'lek troupe mates. Also, depending on the target's dance skill and complexity of the dance, would create a failure rate (target that has no dance skills causes a regular to semi-regular fall downs and toe stepping). Can anyone say ball-room dancing!!
There should be a bunch of new image design looks only available to the ME as well. It would force the ID-folks to get ME for completeness of their skills.
Yup, share the misery (while actually making ME more interesting and fun to this MM). At best, we get all this bonus fun stuff. At worst, the dancers and image designers get to whine about having to learn ME to get the really cool stuff (hehe... ok, maybe that's not the worst... misery loves company)
Caspearious Shalerock
Master Entertainer and Master Musician
Coronet, Corellia (Tarquinas)
The real way to spread the misery was to have made ID, Dance, and Music require ME before advancing in the elite trees. I'm grateful they didn't.
As for late changes by devs, well this one was 1 week prior to release. The whole instrument certification was put in 1 week before release. When they did that, they also just haphazardly threw the instruments around the tree with no thought to whre they landed. Someone may have thought that moving mandoviol into the ME slot was a good idea, but that doesn't make them right.
MEs get four things.
Ceremonial (Song)
Footloose2 (Dance)
Formal2 (Dance)
Mandoviol
That's two useless dance upgrades. A novice dancer gets poplock and popular ... two new dances. THey don't really need upgrades to two they already have. So that leaves Ceremonial and mandovial. The only unique items for a ME. That's just dumb. Evident by the big holes in the Musician trees, these were just ripped out and slapped onto ME to make folks want it.
A ME should get the following four things instead.
Mandovial
Poplock
Unique graphical display along lines of firejet
Bald (Or another unique ID feature)
Aye, but the fact that there are not unique dances is a problem *throughout* the dance line - it has nothing to do with ME specifically. Throughout, Music grants NEW songs and instruments, and dance grants bad repeats.. that's something very very broken in our world.
That being said, I think your solution would be a good compromise, but poplock is *probably* not thebest dance to place there, as it's one of the more divisive.. the idea is to make it something that makes it worthwhile for dancers, and there are a goodly number who wouldn't mind never having to dance that. <g>
The real way to spread the misery was to have made ID, Dance, and Music require ME before advancing in the elite trees. I'm grateful they didn't.
As for late changes by devs, well this one was 1 week prior to release. The whole instrument certification was put in 1 week before release. When they did that, they also just haphazardly threw the instruments around the tree with no thought to whre they landed. Someone may have thought that moving mandoviol into the ME slot was a good idea, but that doesn't make them right.
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Why is Master Entertainer misery? I didn't find it a miserable experience. I could have done without the dancing, but I have been kicking around the idea of going master Dancer as well as my ME and MM, so in hind sight, if I do, it actually turns out to be a blessing. Why do you think its such misery? I think I can answer that, because either you, or someone you knew was in beta and the way it was in beta, is the way it should be now.
We all know, or at least should know, that the devs got rushed at the end, SOE made them produce the game. Did they cut a few corners here and there? Of course they did, but its not at the detriment of the game, IMHO. If they had a broader vision for each specific class then we can expect to see some changes in the near future.
Everyone that reads these forums knows my position about the Mandovil. When I pull it out, its my Yep, I'm a Master Entertainer sign. And again, regardless of what happened in Beta, this is release now. We can complain until the moon turns blue, but as it is, there are only 3 or 4 very vocal proponants for the Mandovil change. There are more against a change, and a larger number of people that would go along with a change, but they do not wish a drastic change.
I can not back this number up at all, but I would be willing to bet 100k creds that 90% of the Musicians, did not play Beta, and are not aware of the changes that are being spoken about on this board. And as such, even if they do look at the discription of Master Musician, they only give it a cusory thought and then go on about thier business.
The only people that this is an issue with are people from beta or people who have knowledge of Beta. If we want things to be like in Beta, then I want all the hairstyles back. They only made that change like a week before live, so that there would be a reason to push up into the ID line. I also would like to have all the Tool Terms back, oh and the Clothing Terms as well, so I can buy everything in the game for 5 credits.
Speaking of the hairstyle, there actually was an uproar about it, but people got over it. And if Master Entertainer is left as is, then people will let this blow over as well.
Durney Kova - Master Entertainer / Master Musician - Lowca
P.S. Something that has also been bothing me, the folks hollering the loudest for a Mandovil change are the ones that also do not have a sig. Hidding something?