Musician Archive
Thread: What is wrong with AFK Musicians?
vexingthought wrote:
Kilogram wrote:
The answer isn't to make people lose exp when they are AFK. The answer is to make it so that those who are ATK gain MORE experience.
Make it so there is a benefit to being ATK.
There's a great benefit to being ATK, and its greater then any point value of any kind. You meet new people, and gain a pretty large network of friends both inside and outside of the cantinas.
Having friends in this game is a far better position then having a skilled character. Having both of course is what I'd consider to be on the level of the endgame for entertainment.
GazimusPrime wrote:
if afk players were penalised, im sure it would drive MANY away from the profession, plus would mean there would be an increase of poeple with High mind wounds, high BF as there was no one there to heal it,
Those who will leave are those who didn't enjoy the profession to begin with. I don't think it will be nearly so many as you think though, especially when people rediscover how much fun being an entertainer can be. And people with high mind wounds and BF.. Are you arguing for or against it? To me that means more healing xp for the entertainers that are around. People will just have to learn to find them. There is never no entertainer around. Ever. And that won't change.
With the way it is, xp comes slowly, so you have to spend more time than any other proffession to get anywhere, being AFK helps this as you can do other things,
I theorize that AFK people actually hurt the amount of healing xp gained by your average entertainer, so it wouldn't be so slow with less AFK people.
Hell some poeple just shove AFK on so they can chat, or to avoid constant tells for Buffs,
Well that's not really being AFK, is it. People can be AFK without having AFK showing, and people can be there and have AFK up.
vexingthought wrote:
I agree on both counts. Make it so there is a benefit to being ATK.
I hear people suggest that a lot, but I disagree. Do away with AFK completely. You need to make it less desirable to AFK, not more desirable to be ATK. However, it's hard to get less desirable than no xp at all (logged out), so if you make ATK more desirable, people will just be ATK for a little bit, but AFK the rest of the time.
It destroys the two real strengths an Musician/Dancer has... the ability to be in a band and the social interaction we have.
Galaxies is a player driven game, with players providing healing services, weapons, items, etc. There aren't NPCs to do those sort of things. However, when a Musician or Dancer is AFK grinding, they are no better than an NPC.
They are not capable of interaction, and it's almost insulting for the players that come to see someone entertain, or talk to someone, or the players that take time to play.
No, it's not fun to just press the buttons over and over. That's why we have the power of social interaction. We can talk to people, have discussions, etc. That fills in the space nicely.
Beyond that, AFK grinders mess up bands every time. They either aren't playing at a level with everyone else, or they are just repetitve, or they take up spots from legit entertainers. Go to Coronet sometime, and go to the Cantina, and see if the leader of whatever group(s) are in there are AFK. Or not paying attention. You'd be amazed. I give a 1:1 chance.
I was a holo victim, but I stood there and played my character. And unlike most, I still have my Master Dancer, and I still participate. I have my nice cantina set up on Dantooine and I'm enjoying myself. I liked it enough to keep it. AFK grinders just ruin that for a lot of people
Kilogram wrote:
Tiaga wrote:I hear people suggest that a lot, but I disagree. Do away with AFK completely. You need to make it less desirable to AFK, not more desirable to be ATK. However, it's hard to get less desirable than no xp at all (logged out), so if you make ATK more desirable, people will just be ATK for a little bit, but AFK the rest of the time.
Logging out AFK people is not a viable solution for multiple reasons.
1) A lot of PAs need a heal bot for their cantina. Unless you want to volunteer to go and spend your time at the PA Cantina, where you will get healing experience twice a day for 20 minutes, of course.
2) Artisans who have made a name for themselves need that AFK flag so that they can occasionally do something outside of crafting.
AFK is a necessary evil. You might not like it, and I respect your opinion, but getting rid of people when they go AFK is not going to happen, ever.
On point two, the AFK flag has nothing to do with this. It is just a flag, like LFG.
As to point 1, do they really need it? Is it impossible to get healing elsewhere? And why are entertainers so special that they have to be everywhere? What about medics. Don't people need them? And slicers.. If someone just got a new set of composite that they can't wear, wouldn't they need a slicer around to slice it? Or when their pet gets big enough to mount, wouldn't they need a creature handler around to train it?
So I disagree with both your points and still say AFK needs to be done away with completely.
(Oh and on a different topic, point 1 is part of the problem with reduction in healing xp.. By spreading the healing out to a few places that only see a little healing, entertainers get less healing xp on the whole.)
1) A lot of PAs need a heal bot for their cantina. Unless you want to volunteer to go and spend your time at the PA Cantina, where you will get healing experience twice a day for 20 minutes, of course.
2) Artisans who have made a name for themselves need that AFK flag so that they can occasionally do something outside of crafting.
1) This is cheating plain and simple. If you can't find a player to do it online, you shouldn't do it. Right now it's not prosecuted because SOE is either incompetent or doesn't want to pay enough CSRs. But the fact remains that unattended gameplay is not a normal state of this game and you should not have a need for it. I have a need for 6 million credits. But I don't go and dupe them because of my need. If your cantina is only visited twice per day for 20 minutes, it shouldn't be to hard to find another cantina when you need one instead of circumventing one of the core values of any online game.
2) Agreed. But the AFK flag and being AFK are two different things even today.
"Why would you want to be a musican if all your going to do is afk macro to master?"
I just want the buff ability. I am not going to ruin your cantina experience .. I plan to do it in my house.
nvoigt wrote:
1) A lot of PAs need a heal bot for their cantina. Unless you want to volunteer to go and spend your time at the PA Cantina, where you will get healing experience twice a day for 20 minutes, of course.
2) Artisans who have made a name for themselves need that AFK flag so that they can occasionally do something outside of crafting.
1) This is cheating plain and simple. If you can't find a player to do it online, you shouldn't do it. Right now it's not prosecuted because SOE is either incompetent or doesn't want to pay enough CSRs. But the fact remains that unattended gameplay is not a normal state of this game and you should not have a need for it. I have a need for 6 million credits. But I don't go and dupe them because of my need. If your cantina is only visited twice per day for 20 minutes, it shouldn't be to hard to find another cantina when you need one instead of circumventing one of the core values of any online game.
2) Agreed. But the AFK flag and being AFK are two different things even today.
1) So then, your problem isn't with AFK entertainers, it's with lazy players who want everything instantly available to them. AFK entertainers are simply a symptom of a greater problem - demanding players who don't want to inconvenience themselves by waiting 10 minutes at a shuttle port, then possibly another 10 minutes at a star port, so that they can go to a cantina that has an entertainer working it at 3AM EST. Maybe what SOE should do, then, is to make it so that every player has a teleporter that can "beam" them to a busy cantina at the push of a button...
2) If not by using the AFK flag, then how would you suggest that SOE detect that players are AFK? If there's no AFK flag, maybe that guy standing next to you at the cantina just playing his instrument is roleplaying a mute and you're just not getting it.
dWhisper wrote:
It destroys the two real strengths an Musician/Dancer has... the ability to be in a band and the social interaction we have.
Galaxies is a player driven game, with players providing healing services, weapons, items, etc. There aren't NPCs to do those sort of things. However, when a Musician or Dancer is AFK grinding, they are no better than an NPC.
They are not capable of interaction, and it's almost insulting for the players that come to see someone entertain, or talk to someone, or the players that take time to play.
No, it's not fun to just press the buttons over and over. That's why we have the power of social interaction. We can talk to people, have discussions, etc. That fills in the space nicely.
Beyond that, AFK grinders mess up bands every time. They either aren't playing at a level with everyone else, or they are just repetitve, or they take up spots from legit entertainers. Go to Coronet sometime, and go to the Cantina, and see if the leader of whatever group(s) are in there are AFK. Or not paying attention. You'd be amazed. I give a 1:1 chance.
I was a holo victim, but I stood there and played my character. And unlike most, I still have my Master Dancer, and I still participate. I have my nice cantina set up on Dantooine and I'm enjoying myself. I liked it enough to keep it. AFK grinders just ruin that for a lot of people
I've been the bandleader at the cantina in Coronet. Did it for about 8 hours straight. I felt one of my responsibilities as bandleader was to kick the AFK players to make room for live entertainers.
I've also been to the cantina when the leader was AFK. After 5 minutes, I had stolen every single LIVE entertainer from that band and formed my own, leaving that afk leader and his afk bandmates on their own while those of us who wanted to rock out and entertain live got to enjoy doing just that.
I'm sorry, but an AFK grinder has never, not even one time, ruined my gameplay. That's like saying that the piece of furniture in your living room ruins your gameplay. Or the NPC standing behind me in the cantina who says the same stupid crap over and over again ruins my gameplay.
I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time understanding why so many people have this huge chip on their shoulders when it comes to AFK players. Why do you let it bother you? They are furniture.
You know what bothers me? Being the leader of a group and having to ask 20+ times in group chat (to LIVE entertainers) if someone would like to take over being the group leader so that I can leave, and being greeted by nothing but silence or grumbles that "I would, but I've got to log off soon" or "I'm watching my kids right now, I can't do it." Sadly, I'm guessing some of those people who refuse to run a group are the same ones complaining here, when it would be so easy for them to actually do something about it in game.
You all keep talking about this great "community" in SWG, but none of you seem to want to take any responsibility in that community. You know what - SOE isn't listening to you complain about AFK entertainers. So the next time you see a group full of afk entertainers, you can do 2 things:
1) You can come here and W, B, and M (whine, b**** and moan) about how they are ruining your immersive experience
or
2) You can be the dang group leader, boot them out, and ruin their unimmersive experience healing.
I chose the latter, but by all means, you folks continue to W, B, and M about it.
Come on folks it isn't the AFK entertainers fault.
Their little cubes told them to immerse themselves in an entertainment branch they have absolutely no desire to be in. If anyone is to blame for this fiasco it is the developers who decided that macro grinding multiple professions was the way to enlightenment and force powers.
But I for one wish they would close this professions macroability along the lines that they did for artisan or better yet just put in a non removable no keyboard or mouse input timer that boots the AFKers off the server so the rest of us don't have to put up with their tip spamming, non-flourishing, bandwith hogging actions.
"Their little cubes told them to immerse themselves in an entertainment branch they have absolutely no desire to be in."
AFK macrotaining has been an issue for entertainment professions well before the introduction of holocrons.
Kilogram wrote:
...you can do 2 things:
1) You can come here and W, B, and M (whine, b**** and moan) about how they are ruining your immersive experience
or
2) You can be the dang group leader, boot them out, and ruin their unimmersive experience healing.
I chose the latter, but by all means, you folks continue to W, B, and M about it.
I've done both of those things, neither have made a difference. Yet, making sure the information stays out there that AFK is frowned upon is good for me.
How many times have you been stuck as agroup of one? I am all the time alone with my music usually, seeing as there isn't anyone live enough to take me into a group of entertainers anymore.
I am a high quality act, and everyone tells me so that listens, yet for some reason I never get tips whenever there is an AFK band around. Hmm... I wonder why that is?
So now, instead of being stuck in playing for a bunch of free-loaders, I play for nothing in my own cantina that gets no traffic and get the same benefits of no tips. Does that seem like a great community? Of course not, but its been forced by those damned AFKers. So now my income is just from resource sales and random crap I craft from being master musician/master artisian/master entertainer/novice chef.
Amythen wrote:
I've done both of those things, neither have made a difference. Yet, making sure the information stays out there that AFK is frowned upon is good for me.
I frown on AFK players as well, as I said. I'm merciless about booting them. Maybe you should volunteer to be group leader so you can boot them, which was my complaint in the post you replied to.
How many times have you been stuck as agroup of one? I am all the time alone with my music usually, seeing as there isn't anyone live enough to take me into a group of entertainers anymore.
Stuck as a group of 1? Never. My experience, on the same server in the same cantinas, seems to be very different than yours. I rarely ran across groups where the leader was AFK. In fact, it only happened one time, and I promptly got everyone to jump ship and join my band, leaving the AFK leader and a few other macrotainers all alone.
I am a high quality act, and everyone tells me so that listens, yet for some reason I never get tips whenever there is an AFK band around. Hmm... I wonder why that is?
Why complain about tips? You will NEVER make money as an entertainer just playing in a cantina, so you may as well put that theory to rest right now. If you are a high quality act and everyone says so, then you should be able to steal those players away from the AFK entertainers and get them to watch you instead. If they won't, then they are as much at fault as the AFK entertainer, because their selfishness makes them prefer the AFKer over the "high quality act".
So now, instead of being stuck in playing for a bunch of free-loaders, I play for nothing in my own cantina that gets no traffic and get the same benefits of no tips. Does that seem like a great community? Of course not, but its been forced by those damned AFKers. So now my income is just from resource sales and random crap I craft from being master musician/master artisian/master entertainer/novice chef.
I'd say you need to move your cantina. Also - don't blame the actions of the entire community on solely the AFK entertainers. Sure, if they took away the ability to afk entertain the "community" would watch you, but from personal experience, I'd be surprised if that made much difference in the tips you get.
Don't get me wrong - I'm on your side here. I don't like the AFKers much either. But I don't dislike them because they are ruining my tips or stealing my customers. I dislike them because they may as well be NPCs. They are boring. They are furniture. But taking them away isn't suddenly going to "fix" the entertainer class. By making AFKers the biggest issue, I think we're selling ourselves short. Instead of ruining the class for those who go AFK, we should all be encouraging SOE to MAKE THE FRIGGIN' CLASS MORE ENTERTAINING FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE ATK!!! Do that, and the AFK situation will fix itself.