Musician Archive

You just gave me a great idea Hijo! How about we give master entertainers the ability to make a guitar case or some type of cool looking bucket for people to throw their tips in.

Honestly though, I don't have a problem with it being in master entertainer. Sure I had to rethink my char, but I can still get master entertainer, master musician and still have enough left to get master pistoleer. Whats so bad about that?

I'm more concerned with the fact that almost all the instruments sound exactly the same.

Trillian, what's so bad about that is that's MY character concept! Heh, at least you're a Mon Cal and on a different server, so I guess we can have the exact same skills!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with there bein a unique instrument and song under master entertainer. Many of you making complaints are just being spoiled little children. Nothing is free, you can't have everything without giving a little something. If you aren't willing to spend the extra skill points then you don't deserve the mandoviol; it's just that simple.

mom ... is that you?

i haven't seen anyone suggest that we should get the mandoviol for "free".thats a strange idea. not sure where you got it. some ppl do think that the mandoviol is too expensive though and they are asking that the cost, in skill points, be reduced. that's not whining. it's a discussion of game design.

now dad says to get off the computer, he wants to check his auctions on ebay.

Leave my mandoviol alone

Why do some skills and abilities have a higher skill point cost? Master Doctor and Master Combat Medic are certainly expensive since you have to master the whole Medic profession and then the whole elite profession to get them. How come?

I think the design idea is that the cost of a set of skills should correspond to the power the skills give you, and the foreseeable player demand for your services. The higher the power and demand, the higher the skill point cost. Since Master Doctor is the MOST powerful healer, whose services will foreseeably be VERY MUCH in demand, the skill point cost for attaining it is commensurately high (yeah baybee ... commensurate ... woota).

Well, the mandoviol doesn't make you more powerful. It doesn't let you heal at twice the rate or heal on the battlefield or anything like that (does it?).

But ... does it make you more in demand ...

I think maybe it does. If you are one of the few people who can play the mandiovol, then I suppose it would increase the demand for you somewhat.

But why would the demand for you increase? Because a musician that can play the mandiovol is relatively uncommon. And why is that?

Because of the high cost.

So the cost creates the rarity that increases the demand, and the increased demand is used as the reasoning for the high cost.

This seems ... circular ... tautological .. it's a fancy way of saying, "It's that way because I say so."

Which still leaves the design choice to put it on Master Entertainer puzzling.

the flaw in the logic is further compounded, yes compounded i say, by the underlying prrrrrrrresumption that mandoviol players will be in demand because they are uncommon, which is nearly the same thing as saying,

Master Musician? meh ... got lots of those.

But Master Entertainer! ooo, now THERE is something to be proud of.

that ... is messed up.

And yet again, the argument comes up. It's all a matter of perception.

LordTigris, your numbers are exactly what I'm talking about. You don't want to spend 34 skill points to get Mandoviol and Ceremonial (because those ID and Dance skills are a waste to you). I, on the other hand, don't want to spend 43 skill points (for two healing disciplines and one discipline of instrument schematics and useless visual effects) to get Nalargon and Virtuoso. It's the SAME THING. Each person has a different view of which skills are a "waste".
If skill points were all that mattered, you'd just take Music 1-4 and EntHeal 1-4, Novice in Entertainer and Musician, and Music Knowledge 1-4. For only 63 skill points, you'd only be missing two instruments and two songs. Of course, you'd be pretty much limited to horns, other than Ommni/Bandfill. No keyboard sounds, no guitar sounds.

To get Master in most skills, you have to take skills you personally don't really want, even though they ARE useful to some other people. I like the Image Design skills. I won't make them a career, but they're nice to have. I probably would have kept them even if they weren't a prerequisite for anything, which means for me Master Entertainer only really cost me 20 points (Dance 1-4 plus Master). Even that's debatable, since I don't mind the Dancing skills either. If I didn't intend to ever use those skills, then yes, I'd be more reluctant to get Master Entertainer, but the point is, that's a personal call. It's not an automatic "this skill box requires you to spend 34 skill points to get one instrument" thing.
But like I said, I'd be more inclined to look at the 43 "wasted" skill points it'd take me to get to the Nalargon. 28 on healing skills? Why do I need those, I heal too quickly as it is! Besides, it only benefits my customers, it doesn't make ME a better musician. 14 on instrument blueprints? I'm not an Artisan. Ooh, I can make a spotlight. Sure, it costs me lots of HAM and does nothing... sort of like Image Design. (Obviously I'm being facetious, but you get the point.)

Now, an anecdote. I play on Radiant, and last night in the Coronet cantina we had two Master Entertainers and one Master Musician (yes, someone made master already) playing along with all the newbies on SW1. We had a Nalargon, Bandfill, Mandoviol, and both horn sounds all going. It sounded GOOD. The point is, you can make a good group without Mandoviols or Nalargons, but it's even better if someone in the group was willing to spend points to get those rarer instruments. It's not something every musician should do, and it's not something you WANT everyone to do. An all-Nalargon band doesn't sound that good, any more than an all-Slitherhorn one does.

Which skills are useful and which are a waste is a matter of perception, and if it only cost 5 to get mandoviol you might not hear many people objecting, even if they thought the points were in a wasted area. 5 is pretty cheap.

The problem is not that people feel the points are wasted, it's that it takes so many points to truly master this profession.

Why. Why is it so expensive to truly master musicianship, meaning all the instruments and all the songs. Why does it cost 34 additional points for a musician to get aninstrument and a song.

~ Because it is the most unique and desirable instrument in the game, and the best song. ~

But that means the players with the most unique and desirable instrument and the best song are Master Entertainers ...

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Xphilos wrote:

the flaw in the logic is further compounded, yes compounded i say, by the underlying prrrrrrrresumption that mandoviol players will be in demand because they are uncommon, which is nearly the same thing as saying,

Master Musician? meh ... got lots of those.

But Master Entertainer! ooo, now THERE is something to be proud of.

that ... is messed up.

---

And? Master entertainer shouldn't be something to be proud of? Should it be watered down so that its rarity is due to its irrelevance instead of its cost? Why would it be unreasonable to presume that a master entertainer + master musician would be more in demand (once real performance troupes start forming) than someone who is only master musician? Seems very likely to me... they still need to get through master music to be of use to a performance group, but they would have the extra title of master entertainer as well.

Here's another thought for you mandovial-hungry folks that want to have your cake and eat it too: Give up the nalargon. You'll save crazy skill points if you just go master entertainer and then progress up the music knowledge line, ignoring the fatigue, wound and techniques branches. There will be no shortage of nalargon players either, so go for it!

No, I'm guessing you won't do that either because contrary to what you'd have us believe you simply want everything without having to 'waste' another skill point. Who cares that someone else did spend those skill points to get master entertainer, because I am a master musician and I want people to think I'm cool, but deep down inside I will always be jealous of the people that worked harder than me and got that extra instrument and song and it is SOE's responsibility to make up for my laziness, and and... me me me... wahhh.

Ok bye!

"Master entertainer shouldn't be something to be proud of?"

Yes ... I mean no ... huh? Let me rephrase it for you:

"Should Master Entertainer be something to be proud of?"

Yes.

"Should a Master Entertainer be a better Musician than a Master Musician?"

No.

< breathless lecturing edited ... was giving me flashbacks to high school *brrrr* : ) >

Musician is just a part of the Entertainer which you can specialize in and from what I noticed the mandoviol is masterly entertaining

nyuk nyuk!

i see you've mastered Stand-Up Comedy : )