Musician Archive
Thread: So i got into the village and....
Echinacea wrote:
NewJedi wrote:
The only unfairness to me is to those Musicians who simply want to visit the Village to get the FS skills -- not Jedi. I haven't met any people in the Village who fall into this category, but I imagine there are a few.
/sigh Yeah, this would be me. I have minimal to no interest in actually being a Jedi, either with my main or an alt. I want the second character slot so I can have a pure Entertainer for fun and to help my friends with a non buffbot, and one on the same server so I can go out hunting/PvPing with the same friends without being a complete gimp anymore.
I've had lots of friends who had Jedi. It sounds awful and completely not worth the requisite investment of time.
mhmm..you can put me in this catagory, too. I've no interest in Jedi..while I've played a lot of combat games before, after playing non-combat MMOGs alike A Tale in the Desert and Second Life, I've found that combat just really isn't my style. I've no interest in another alt..I play 3 accounts regularly and have 3 more accessible to me if I was just Dying for more.
I see FS as an extension of the professions that we started with at launch (and Poli added later). I see Jedi (in the new version) as a combat based extension of FS. If my entertainer character wasn't the one glowing when pub 10 hit the ground running, I might have tried it with one of my crafting characters. But my entertainer is the one I like playing most and I would prefer to play her to her fullest potential.
I don't, however, see myself dropping any of my entertainer skills to train up medic. Considering that the FS option is available to crafters and there are many crafters with little or no interest in combat, all I can say is that it is too bad the devs have decided to leave us out of part of the non-combat game.
NewJedi wrote:
As I said earlier, Chalame, I agree that it would be better if there were entertainer missions at the village. The other Correspondents and I have all registered objections about this with the devs. They already know we're unhappy about it. The devs have replied to our complaints and given us no reason to believe they plan to change things.There is only so muchI can do. But one thing I can do is ask Musicians how important this is to them, and why, and that's why I'm glad to have this dialog here. I don't see the Village on the top-five lists of more than 3 or 4 players over in my top-five thread.
Personally, I'm not sure that a fifth NPC (or an existing NPC with new Ent-oriented missions) would make our lives as entertainers appreciably better. First, what would such missions look like? They'd require us to visit 150,000 waypoints and play Rock for 10 hours at each without stopping. I don't see entertaining as something to grind. I never did. I leveled up my Musician as a byproduct of playing music, not grinding for grinding's sake. I play, socialize, hang out. To me, that kind of "quest" would suck the fun out of entertaining. I'd rather heal or patrol waypoints. Sure, I'd enjoy doing complex, intellectually challenging missions that mix Musicianship with espionage. But if the devs didn't have the time or resources to develop those kind of quests for the existing types of missions at the Village, it's not reasonable to suppose they'd have done any better for us.
Moreover, insofar as Musicians are visiting the Village to become Jedi, I agree with the poster who says it's reasonable to ask such people to develop some combat or healing skills. In SWG, the Jedi is a combat profession. I played a "Defense" Jedi on TC2, one ofthe least combat-like of them, and it was still all about combat. I'm no expert on continuity, but I've read my share of EU books and seen all the movies twenty times, and Jedi are almost always presented as a combat profession. I have no problem with that conception of Jedi. Your Jedi won't be playing music; it will be wielding a light saber. To retain Music skills and refuse to take Jedi skills is to gimp yourself in PvP and PvE alike: Jedi need every skill point they can get. In any case, Jedi unlocks an alt; *that* person can be the Musician. (That's Aleyo's plan, I think he said.)
The only unfairness to me is to those Musicians who simply want to visit the Village to get the FS skills -- not Jedi. I haven't met any people in the Village who fall into this category, but I imagine there are a few. The trouble is, the FS skills currently grant only ent healing bonuses, right? That to me is the injustice here: why should you grind any kind of mission (ent or otherwise) to get a little more useless wound healing? (You might even argue thatcurrently we heal wounds and BFtoo *fast*, not too slow.) Now, if the skill in question were buffing, then I could understand why people might want to grind it. In that case, then the case for an entertainer-oriented mission would be even stronger.
Finally, I emphasize again the point I made earlier: unless I'm mistaken, the lion's share of time grinding the FS trees is not in doing the quests to unlock trees. It's in gathering the huge enormous piles of XP to fill up the trees once they're unlocked. And you can fill up four trees with entertaining XP. So the majority of your time is grinding away at entertaining, if that's what you want to do.
Ok, I would like to clarify some things.
First, I really hope none of you thought I was asking for a 5th NPC in the village for entertaienrs. All I want is for us to be treated like Medics. The medic quest for phase 1 is to heal a bunch of very wounded NPC villagers. Would it be so hard toallow entertaienrs to heal them as well? I mean, we do handle half of the "healing" in SWG...
Medics heal health and action wounds, but we heal mind and battle fatigue. By my count, that is two to two... why are we being treated like medics heal 4 to our zero?
I think a really cool espionage quest would be neat too, but that is not what I am asking for. I just want Entertainers to be treated as the healers they are! As I have said before, I have plenty of diversity in my char, I am a master musician, master pikeman. I will have no problems unlocking, but I am still outraged at the treatment of my favorite classes (entertaienrs).
As for the poster that NJ agrees with that jedi candidates should achieve combat/healing skills, WE HAVE HEALING SKILLS, please understand this. We should not have to "achieve healing skills" to participate in the village because we already heal half of the damage in game...
I am not trying to be a whiner or a pain here, but if you are going to support the devs decision to disclude us from participating and evolving with the game, then please try to think about their reasons for disclusion before you support them.
-Cian Thurio
Master Musician-Ahazi
"The Force finds you, you do not find the Force." - me
Message Edited by NewJedi on 09-13-2004 01:41 PM
NewJedi wrote:
And we've arguably got it easier than any other profession when it comes to filling up FS boxes.Four out of six Jedi trees can be filled by AFK entertainers. No combat or craftingprofession can say that. Do we really want to complain so loudly about that situation?
And I do think there's a difference between our healing and medic healing. Ours is passive, theirs is active. Theirs requires more input from the player. For our healing, we don't even have to flourish. Indeed, I wonder whether whether the devs were worried that an entertainer-oriented quest (or a version of the medic quest for entertainers) would be accomplished by people AFK. I haven't done the novice-medic quest, but it sounds to me like it can't easily be AFK-macro'd. For an ent version to be at all worthwhile, I would think it would have to be a separate, freestanding fifth quest, like the audition quest or my espionage quest. If it were tacked onto the medic quest, it would just encourage the very problem we're trying to tamp down -- AFKers.
Already I read posts on this board about how the entertainers rule the Village because we can fill four of six Jedi trees while AFK. Crafters have to grind out millions of credits' worth of items to fill their boxes. Combatants have to kill thousands and thousands of enemies. But entertainers can currently turn on buffbots and earn four of six FS trees while AFK, once the initial quests are unlocked. Sure, the real underlying problem is the AFK-macro. That is unquestionably a game-breaking problem for us Live entertainers. I'm glad the devs are moving to fix it. I wish they'd fixed it before Jedi and JTL, but imagine the rage against us if they'd held up those two extremely popular additions to SWG in order to nerf macros.
While I would trulyLove to be able to take the other Heightened Senses branches, especially the Persuasion branch, I will Not be dropping my entertainer skills for master medic. I will be foregoing the Village quests because there are none for the skills my character has.
NewJedi wrote:
In the meantime, it would help me to know who is foregoing the Village quests because of this. If you've decided that you aren't going to do the quests because of the absence of Entertainer quests, please please PM me or post here. Thanks.
That too, was my intention. It appears from your post that your experience with converting musician xp to fs was not as we understand the devs' intention to be. Please describe the details of this? Thanks!
IndySWG wrote:
I guess my big issue is.. I dont want to be a Jedi. I want to be a Force Sensative normal profession. And I wanted to have musician in that template...but now that's not going to be an option.
NewJedi wrote:
Chalame, I don't "support" the devs' decision to exclude entertainer-oriented quests. As I've said repeatedly, I disagree with it. I've told the devs so repeatedly. What I haven't told them (but am telling you) is that I just don't think it's the end of the world for us, because we can still use our skills to fill up four out of six trees to unlock a Jedi. Filling up the boxes and treesis far more significant than doing the quests that unlock the trees in the first place. And we've arguably got it easier than any other profession when it comes to filling up FS boxes.Four out of six Jedi trees can be filled by AFK entertainers. No combat or craftingprofession can say that. Do we really want to complain so loudly about that situation?
*Snip*
Ok, I know you are not saying that you support the decision NJ, I never said or alluded to the idea that you did. My problem is you keep saying things like, "I disagree, but I don't think it's the end of the world." Well, some of us are obviously ticked about the situation, or this week-old thread would be on page 4 by now. I feel likeyour attitude towards a problem that is affecting alot of us musicians and entertainers is very lazy. You have a responsibility to help us organize our arguments and bring them in a civil and organized fashion to the developers. I feel like you are trying to calm us down and put out a fire. Don't be a firefighter, represent the musician side. I feel like you are trying to be the great mitigator, the one in the middle telling everyone to "calm down, ya it stinks, but it isn't a big deal." Please represent us in this, and all musician issues. Like a good defense attorney, it is your job to represent musicians before the developers.
The argument we have is not that we don't get to use or xp. Sure, I can go and swap out as much musician xp as I want. However, how am i supposed to use the xp for anything if I can't open any of the branches that take it... It's like trading in all of your real money for carnival money. I think you can understand how we would be upset if we traded in all of our money only to find we can't use it for anything.
I am sorry I have not posted this problem on your "top 5" list, but please keep in mind that you are allowed to talk about issues that are brought up repeatedly and fervently on other threads.
Oh, and Congratulations to FamousFATWOOKIE for getting his glow on. Welcome to the conundrum buddy.
Cian Thurio
Master Musician (soon to be master medic instead)-Ahazi
"The Force finds you, you do not find the Force." - me
LyteFoot wrote:
I believe what Indy is saying is that finish the quests to unlock the skill tree they will have to take on skills they don't have. To get the skill points for those new skills they will have to drop existing skills.
I did see someone say that the crafting mission didn't require any artisan just a generic crafting station. For the sense tree it does require novice medic and if Indy doesn't have 15 skill points then something has to be dropped.
Its worse than that ... you have to be a MASTER medic (according to what the NPC says) ... so I'll have to drop all of Musician. Which means I'll have to drop a profession I love, grind one I dont, then drop the one I dont, and re-grind one I love ...
The DEVs said we wouldnt have to do that....but we do.
They need to let us complete this quest if grouped with a Doc who is on the same quest (or something ... this is my prefered solution because smugglers are in the same boat so just adding a musician quest wont help them ... the system encourages profession grinding still.)