Musician Archive

Thread: So i got into the village and....

Chalame
Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:11 am
#53

I also believe that Squad leaders and also creature handlers are screwed as well, probabably bio engineers too. The main difference is most people with those classes have to get some form ofcombat skill to complete those classes. Unless someone knows a Squad Leader/ Creature Handler/ Bio engineer. which I don't.


However, I do knot lots of entertainer/dancer/musician people. These people want to experience the content of the game as well, so my question is, why shouldn't they be allowed to help out too?


If helping out means we have to change classes (which for those pure entertainers it means exactly this), then why are we even allowed to have an entertainer class at all? If they are going to treat us like we don't matter, then they should just take the whole entertainer class group away and make cantina's gradually heal mind wounds and bf like a med center. they could even stick in some npc entertainers like in Jabba's Palace.


-Cian Thurio

Master Musician (soon to be master medic unless something gets done) - Ahazi


"The Force finds you, you do not find the Force." - me
NewJedi
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:02 pm
#54

You only need Novice Medic for the FS line that benefits Ents. You do need Master for one of the other FS trees in the Senses tree.


As I mentioned earlier, I posted yet another thread about this on the Correspondent Forum. No feedback to report yet.


Anyone else foregoing the Village quests because there are no entertainer quests?
NewJedi
Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
#55

Further update: I don't think the devs have changed their thinking on this. I think we'll just have to live with it. That means entertainers will have to take Novice Medic for the Entertainer FS line in the Sense tree. I'm not happy about it either, but that's the news I have to report.


For those who wish to go further and pursue Jedi or unlock a second account, then a second line in Sense requires Master Medic. The third and fourth line in the Senses tree require surveying; no one is sure what skills will be required for that. (Some say no skills at all -- just own a generic crafting tool. Otherssay otherwise. I don't know.) And on top of that, you'll have to complete two crafting or combat lines in the Reflexes, Combat or Crafting trees to unlock. On top of all that, it's not clear whether doing those six lines itself unlocks your alt. It may be that you'll be required to do the Padawan trials, which may require combat, but here I'm completely in the dark and simply repeating what I hear in-game. On that final point, I need to do some more research, unless someone here knows for sure.
LyteFoot
Thu Sep 16, 2004 6:28 am
#56

I have master rifleman so if I want to unlock the trees I can without dropping anything but it means doing the combat quests and I don't know if they can be used to unlock the senses tree. I may want tounlock the senses tree eventually but to do it I will have to drop what little scouting I've held onto to take novice medic. This may not seem like a big deal but 98 percent of what credits I make in this game come from harvesting. I can't survey, I have zero crafting skills, and I can't make enough entertaining to keep my houses and factories in decent shape so the guild can use them.


This means that to unlock the senses tree I have to give up my primary source of ingame income. I also don't know if the next phase will require more than just novice medic and I don't have any points to surrender for another box. Even if I did they would slowly be consumed by the FS trees. So yes having no musician quests to unlock the senses treemeans I have no incentive toeven try finishing up the theme parks and getting "glowy".


I have every POI badge the game offers, I am just about to master my 6th skill with musician. I've been master scout, master marksman, master creature handler, and master rifleman. I don't grind I play the friggin game and change things for variety. However I'm now blocked from taking advantage of new content In the way I want to.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
fett3041
Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:02 pm
#57

One could also look at some of the combatant professions, if we wanted to make a 'standard'. Let's take TKM for example. The Melee Speed line does absolutely nothing for that profession, unlike our wound healing which does give us some sort of 'improvement' (I agree NJ, we already heal too fast).


However, they can also go up the Melee Defense line, which gives a NOTICABLE improvement. Many players I know with this line don't even wear their expensive armor anymore, and can solo enraged rancors WITHOUT doc buffs. It's not easy, but if you know how to play your profession, and with some food/drink, it is possible.


However, it doesn't end there. For the melee and all their 'risk', they can also go up the Ranged Defense and Melee Accuracy, which again, show a huge improvement.


Granted, they would also have to pick up novice medic for the same branch in Senses, however, I don't know too many combatants without at least a little medic for those emergency heals.


Now, as far as expense... While combatants are out grinding their FS experience, they're still out there in the solo groups, making 30k - 40k per mission, easily making 1 - 1.5 MILLION credits in the duration ofdoc buffs. Meanwhile, we entertainers continue to make measly tips (if we're lucky) while we play our profession, and still have to compete with the bots. If you look at the average income for a Performer vs that of your average solo group combatant, then figure the expenses of armor/clothing (one suit of armor compared to my two houses full of costume changes ), buffs (I'm always buying quickness buffs), and food, you'll see who continues to make the greater profit.


Just because we have less 'risk' involved, doesn't make us less worthy for benefits. If you want balance, then there must be equal benefits to ALL professions, not just the Uber Elite.


Besides, in the long run, all these added FS abilities will just widen the gap between combat and noncombat. Combatants will just eat content faster, then demand more because they're bored, spuring the Devs to come up with something else for them to do, resulting in noncombatants being pushed aside even further.


Very disappointed in the Devs' lack of interest in our concerns.


So, the next question: How do we MAKE them take us seriously?






Mo'Ste Elosk
Mo'Set Elosk
-----------------------------------------
May the Force grant us
the Wisdom to discover the Right,
the Will to choose it,
and the Strength to make it endure.
NewJedi
Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:56 am
#58


Elwyn: I'm sorry you have to take Novice Medic to do the FS Entertainer line. For what it's worth, you only need to do it for the short time it takes the quest. If the other village quests are any guide, that should just be a couple of days, maybe a week at most. Then you can re-learn Scout and go back to making money with Scout.


If you wish to unlock and fill 6 trees (24 FS skills), bear in mind that you'll have to spend 24 skill points (1 each), so again you will have to drop Scout anyway. Or something else.


JohnMarble: The devs have no intention of removing Entertainers from the game.


As for their thinking on the village,I can't anddon't speak for the devs, but the line of argument might run like this.I ask you to try to understand it -- not to agree with it. There's no point in shouting about it because it doesn't look like it will change.


First,entertainers can fill theentertainer-FS line with entertainer XP exclusively, which is the easiest, cheapest, and least risky way to do so,even if it can't be done AFK (which currently it can). Crafters will spend millions of credits doing the crafting quests. (Yes, millions of credits to do the crafting FS quests.) Combatants will spend money on buffs, ammo, cloning, insurance, healing BF and wounds, and they run the risk of death and degradation of items. Entertainers can earn their XP costlessly (unlike crafters) and without risk (unlike combatants).


The chief grounds for complaint is that the FS line requiresentertainers to getNovice Medic, which is a temporaryinconvenience, one that can be reversed after the day or so it takes to do the quest. The alternative, creating full-blown entertainer quests, has proven challenging because the devs can't easily create a computer system that measures how "well" one performs, since performance is subjective. The same is true of a Politician, why is why Politicians get no FS quests. By contrast, computer-generated and -monitored quests can easily assess how "well" a crafter, combatant, or medic performs. Along these lines, the devs might argue that the months of time they've put into the new audition quests have been met with at best a lukewarm response by players. Why expend all these dev resources on quests people will grumble about anyway, they might say. Playing medic for two days might well be more fun for everyone.


Second, entertainers can fill four of six boxes toward unlocking a second slot or becoming a Jedi or both. The basic complaint here is that one of those quests requires Master Medic, in addition to the one that requires Novice Medic. (It's not clear whether the other two "survey" quests require any Artisanskills at all, and if so which.) Again, the devs would say filling these boxes is cheaper and less risky for entertainers than for anyone else. Moreover,the devs might add: well, if you want to unlock and fill 24 boxes, you've got to spend 24 skill points to do so. That alone means you're going to have to respec your character to some extent. Moreover, they'd add, to unlock that second slots, you've got to get through the exit quest from the village, which is a very tough fight, again implying that you need to respec. On top of that, the Padawan trials also imply that you need to respec, sinceat least five or six of them involve combat. So even if your only goal is to unlock an alt, you must use combat at the exit and Padawan stages to do so, so it's not unreasonable to ask you to respect toward combat as you do the village quests. If your goal is not just to unlock an alt but also to become a Jedi, then you've got no grounds for complaint, since Jedi is a combat profession. If you're going to be a Jedi, you'll be surrendering most if not all your entertaining skills.


That's the core of the argument. If you just want the one FS skill, then you just need to take Novice Medic, which the devs would say is at most a minor temporary inconvenience. If you want to do the whole monte and unlock an alt, then you've got to respec anyway because that costs 24 skill points and requires combat (exit quest plus Padawan trials). If you want instead to make Jedi, then you have no cause for complaint because Jedi are combatants who need to surrender Ent skills to survive. Whichever route you choose, filling your boxes is cheaper and less risky (and possibly quicker, and possibly AFK) for you than for any other profession. That's the argument they'd make.
LyteFoot
Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:47 am
#59

NewJedi don't take me wrong, personally I have zero interest in the quests or the force trees today. If I did I also realize that I would have to reconfigure my character some. I'm just disappointed that there isn't a way for every playstyle to participate.


Your comments about crafting measurable goals for the various skill types is reasonable. I'm a software engineer and I know how challenging some coding can be. It isn't impossible but the AI to accomplish a valid measurement of some skills would be tough or would be so black and white that it would be easily figured out. The fact that people have already figured out the entertainer quests that are on TC in such a cut and dry manner points to the fact that the measurements are pretty simple.


I'm still in that new musician glow stage where its all fun stuff. With time I may reconfigure again, who knows. It is a game and as such can't be taken too seriously. It would be nice if the devs did look at the content and income disparity so they made it possible for an entertainer to get the same rewards from the game though. The risk for an entertainer may be lower but so is the amount of actual content a pure entertainer can even attempt.


The artisans are in the same boat, plus they often have to go out to risky areas to gather resources while still missing much of the game content. Howevera chef guild mate went from broke and living off my credits to tripling my current worth in a week of hitting master and putting good food in a vendor. I thought I was pretty rich till I saw how fast artisan specializations make money. So while they give up certain content they get other benefits and rewards that entertainers can't get. There isn't a lot we can do with our play money but what ever we can do an artisan specialization can afford while a pureentertainer can't.


Its the overall game rewards that are imbalanced in my opinion. Every play style needs rewarding or SOE needs to realize it can't support every play style and adjust accordingly.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
elaan
Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:52 am
#60

Hey there, NJ.


As you know, I have been a ME MM and MTKA for quite some time. MTKA for the reason of being able to earn credits, I am sure that you have a vague understanding of this.


Having made my way into the village, the only skill trees I can progress through at this time are for combat or the musicians healing line. Like Esh, I too would like the persuasion line along with the luck line.


I do have novice medic, but as many others have stated before, I do not feel justified making my way up the musician's healing line for a few points towards wound healing, not too certain that I would even take the time if were for BF healing.


Regardless, I am in complete agreement that I should not have to master medic and drop my current skills (because I want them, I never touched a holo) to be able to drop a jedi mind trick on a hapless NPC.


Furiae


P.S. Hugs for Frag, Ska, Esh, Ricky, Til and sometimes Elo because well, he eats poo.
NewJedi
Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:24 pm
#61

Hey Furiae (Elaan); nice to see you in here. Thanks to you and everyone else for your comments. I've done my best to convey your strong feelings about this to the devs.
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