Musician Archive
Thread: Recursive macros are being removed!
velkrohd
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:04 pm
#40
Forgot to put this in.... Very good point Drygo... if recursive macros were never in the game to begin with, people wouldnt have anything to complain about in the first place but it was. And with change will always come grief but eventually people will come to accept it =)
ArthurP
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:13 pm
#41
I've been Master Entertainer and owner of my own cantina for many months - and I'm NOT happy about this nerf. I don't a buff-bot macro - but I DO run a flourish macro while I'm at my keyboard so I can run my city in /tells - welcome vistors to my cantina and entertain them at the same time. Now, this will kill my songs, and add to the things I have to jungle.
Sheesh... The whiners ruin the game again. Keep it up folks! Your arrogant superiority over other players will teach SOE all they have to do to make ppl happy is alternate NERFing professions instead of actually coding new content.
Drygo
Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:16 pm
#42
velkrohd wrote:
Forgot to put this in.... Very good point Drygo... if recursive macros were never in the game to begin with, people wouldnt have anything to complain about in the first place but it was. And with change will always come grief but eventually people will come to accept it =)
Yeah...I think most people who join the game, especially after JTL, which I expect will be quite significant will ponder in consternation over the fact that this was ever allowable in the first place. People just became dependent on it and they haven't yet figured out they're going to be able to do everything without it, and possibly even enjoy the game more. All these new people will counterbalance the angry people, who will soon forget we even had the recursive macro in the first place. heh.
As a side note, after having read and responded to a good portion of the main thread I became a bit discouraged and thought the devs might change their minds on this. But, I think part of my worry was the fact that the people who are against this...well, they're *really* against this. I mean, they flame, insult, what have you. But, then checking a couple of pages, weeding out posts made by the same people. I realized that the pro and the con posters seem to be equal. If I had the time I'd make a real count, lol. But, alas, that's a huge undertaking that I'm not about to get into. Then, I made a quick "survey" of the profession boards...leaving out all of the entertainer boards. I looked at a couple crafter, couple combat, and then some that don't fall into a specific category such as Ranger. In all of the professions I looked at it, it appears that the majority of people posting on their particular recursive macro profession threads are either neutral or positive about this change. Even the Jedi. And, we all know that if the Jedi are on your side, you've got a little extra nudge. LOL
I hope that the devs take a quick peek into the profession forums and hopefully that will factor into their decision and make them more firmly stick to this plan. The reality, I think, is that a lot of people are very much for this idea and think it will make gameplay better over all. Of course, with anything, the people that really hate this idea have come out of the woodworks, whereas most of the people who simply don't care remain silent.
I'll be going to sleep in a hesitantly positive mood tonight that things will all work out for the best. I know the devs don't like insults and flames and respond better to positivity. So, I'm hoping they'll also take *that* into consideration and weed out all the voices that have been treating them like sh!t over this game change.
happy thoughts...happy thoughts...
PS. Thanks to all who welcomed me back. I actually only quit last week because I couldn't deal with the bots anymore and I was tired of fighting. I never actually had the chance to stop playing but there was nothing but nothing that would have gotten me back except for this. Funny and ironic how that happened so quickly after I left. 
Message Edited by Drygo on 08-02-2004 08:17 PM
JohnMarble
Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:46 am
#43
MonsofoLexius wrote:
I wanted to add one thing, while we do have buff bots in our cantina, I know we would gladly welcome ATK entertainers for healing or buffs. At one time we even moved the "bots" to the back stage. Some entertainers would come to play for xp/fun/etc and we welcome that. But I am concerned with the off hours or our remote location of our city ending up with no entertainers and the few of us who have set up a community that we really enjoy forced to travel (in yet another time sink) to find an entertainer.
I used to love playing in cantinas close to launch, was some of the best times I had. I really feel that "cantina rp" has been ruined by the hologrinders not the afk bots. but that is just my 2 cents. And by eliminating the recursive macro the hologrinders will just find another way to proceed until the "no more profession grinding" patch goes live.
I hope my comments are taken as constructive as they were ment to be.
Next, we have to pester them to fix /register. It seems like that would help so much.
The problem with the player-citieswas that most folks who want to play the game for four hours or so would worry they just wouldn't make enough credits buffing in there, because of low foot traffic. Hopefully the planetwide chat channel may make ita little more feasible.
Kasteu
Tue Aug 03, 2004 2:51 am
#44
Jenden speaking personally I have my stats migrated so that I can flourish every 3 seconds without any burn out. So any unrepeating macro would be extremely long, especially one to last 20mins or so.
While the macro is running I concenrate on keeping people entertained by chating and putting on a light show with the visual specials and holo emotes.
I also know quite a few dancers/musicans who have migrated their stats in this way, so they can use macros to come up with tracks or dance routines that are played solo or in a troupe/band. To play for any reasonable amount of time and still actually being sociable macros and them repeating are actually esscential.
This "fix" is a nerf, but the underlieing problem still needs to be fixed. Just please not by this means!!!
While the macro is running I concenrate on keeping people entertained by chating and putting on a light show with the visual specials and holo emotes.
I also know quite a few dancers/musicans who have migrated their stats in this way, so they can use macros to come up with tracks or dance routines that are played solo or in a troupe/band. To play for any reasonable amount of time and still actually being sociable macros and them repeating are actually esscential.
This "fix" is a nerf, but the underlieing problem still needs to be fixed. Just please not by this means!!!
Message Edited by Kasteu on 08-03-2004 02:52 AM
Vicotnik
Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:19 am
#45
Umm, Macros won't be removed, just the looping and recursive part. You will STILL be able to use macros for this, you'll just have to restart them yourself. Shouldn't take much away from your /tells and visitor-greeting.
ArthurP wrote:
I've been Master Entertainer and owner of my own cantina for many months - and I'm NOT happy about this nerf. I don't a buff-bot macro - but I DO run a flourish macro while I'm at my keyboard so I can run my city in /tells - welcome vistors to my cantina and entertain them at the same time. Now, this will kill my songs, and add to the things I have to jungle.
Beery
Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:09 am
#46
"While the macro is running I concenrate on keeping people entertained by chating and putting on a light show with the visual specials and holo emotes... To play for any reasonable amount of time and still actually being sociable macros and them repeating are actually esscential. "
Why? You'll still be able to run macros that last 3 or 5 minutes. Are you saying that chatting, combined with your visual effects and holoemotes means thatyou can't hit a button every 5 minutes?
If so, then you have issues. Or you're an AFKer trying desperately to save your preferred playstyle (or more accurately 'non-playstyle').
Kasteu
Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:32 am
#47
The issue I have is that its a lot of lines for five mins, 150 to be exact if your flourishes are linked (more if you are intregating different instruments on different flourishes at the same time). I have master macros that call modules (other macros). Segments of the tunes repeat, as they do in RL tracks, so they are called when needed. I don't just have one song either, in fact I have dance routines too.
As for AFK, please read my other posts. I don't want the issues remaining, I want them fixed but not by nerfing valid players. Maybe you should understand others don't play the game in the same way you do and just because they do doesn't have to mean they are abusing something. Sorry, but that statement really cheesed me off. As I love being an entertainer and really put my heart into it when I'm performing.
An easy solution, disable the turning off of the AFK flag. Sample keyboard and mouse activing, alone. After AFK is activated issue and /dump command. No nerf and the only people affected are the ones abusing the feature.
As for AFK, please read my other posts. I don't want the issues remaining, I want them fixed but not by nerfing valid players. Maybe you should understand others don't play the game in the same way you do and just because they do doesn't have to mean they are abusing something. Sorry, but that statement really cheesed me off. As I love being an entertainer and really put my heart into it when I'm performing.
An easy solution, disable the turning off of the AFK flag. Sample keyboard and mouse activing, alone. After AFK is activated issue and /dump command. No nerf and the only people affected are the ones abusing the feature.
Message Edited by Kasteu on 08-03-2004 08:38 AM
Jenden
Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:13 am
#48
So you have a long macro... whats the problem with that? You don't even have to type any of it out by hand, just copy and paste what you've got into the appropriate places. Will it make things more complicated? Sure. But this is something that needs to go. Its much easier to fool the system into thinking your mouse has moved an inch than it is to run a 3rd party macro to start up all your various macros. Changing the afk/timeout settings is just covering up the problem, not fixing it.
Beery
Tue Aug 03, 2004 3:24 pm
#49
"The issue I have is that its a lot of lines for five mins, 150 to be exact if your flourishes are linked.."
So what? 150 lines. Big deal. I have a performance of 300+ lines, with music, a back-up droid, emotes, and effects. When this change goes into effect I will have to hit a button every 2 1/2 minutesto do my gig, rather than just once as it is now. It's not that much work, and it's hardly likely to stop me interacting with my audience. I just don't see how this change will unacceptablyimpact our ability to play the game. On the other hand, if it's done right it will severely curtail the ability of buffbots to steal our money, and willall but stopAFK play. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages to such an extent that any criticism is (in my opinion)laughable.
Message Edited by Beery on 08-03-2004 06:27 PM
Beery
Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:51 am
#50
"Oh isnt there a million other bugs they could be fixing?"
If they fixed any one of them, people could say the same thing. This has been a major pain to three professions since the game shipped.
Personally, I wish they'd just let us make our money independently, like the combat types do, rather than forcing us to get those combat types to pay us. Combat types - especially the 'leets' - desperatelywant the service we providebutthey don'tseem to want to pay for it - heck, someprefer topay more REAL money to set up a buffbot rather than pay us game money. That's pretty lame - I think it falls in the 'more money than sense' category. Perhapsif our job was more independentwe wouldn't have to suffer such whining fromplayers about how there are a million other more important things that could be fixed - maybe then we could just get on with playing the game the way we like to.
Apparently, although they need us desperately for the service we provide, the leets don't consider that we pay an equal amount to play the game the way we want to. If only we got equal respect, players wouldn't say such things as "Oh isnt there a million other bugs they could be fixing?" No one's whining about the recent BH fix. Why is it that whenever a combat profession gets a fix, everyone just accepts it, but if the entertainment professions get a little love, people start whining. I smell bigotry. Are we second class citizens to you folks? Surely we pay the same monthly fee, so don't we deserve equal respect? You should be happy when we get some attention, just as you would be when BHs got their share, or when pistoleers get theirs.
All I'm asking for is equal respect. Surely that's not too much to ask.
Message Edited by Beery on 08-04-2004 08:08 AM
NippyBooBoo
Wed Aug 04, 2004 5:41 am
#51
I've already posted my comments in several of the other threeds but I'd like to pout my 2 cents in on this one.
I do use recursive macros for performing, BUT like other posters have said you can just write a longer macro for performance . I would rather not. I personally don't mind afk grinders, it's there spam that drives me insane. I do think BUFFBOTS are an issue. Removing /join from the macro language solves that issue.
I would rather they left the recursive macro in for entertainers and crafters. Crafters definetly need it too master there professions. (I got some serious carpal tunnel from grinding 5 crafting professions on 2 characters even WITH a recursive macro.
I can't imagine doing it with out it. ) It does make performing and buffing easier, especially when you are juggling 10 tells and 3 buffies at once.
Combat types have ZERO need for recursive macros. PERIOD.
Now will removing this REALLY solve the afk problem? What is to stop them from writing a 10000 line macro to perform for hours? Is there a character limit for macros? Will they add one? Could we make sure /join is removed from the maco system. There is ZERO need for anyone to use it.
I do use recursive macros for performing, BUT like other posters have said you can just write a longer macro for performance . I would rather not. I personally don't mind afk grinders, it's there spam that drives me insane. I do think BUFFBOTS are an issue. Removing /join from the macro language solves that issue.
I would rather they left the recursive macro in for entertainers and crafters. Crafters definetly need it too master there professions. (I got some serious carpal tunnel from grinding 5 crafting professions on 2 characters even WITH a recursive macro.
I can't imagine doing it with out it. ) It does make performing and buffing easier, especially when you are juggling 10 tells and 3 buffies at once.Combat types have ZERO need for recursive macros. PERIOD.
Now will removing this REALLY solve the afk problem? What is to stop them from writing a 10000 line macro to perform for hours? Is there a character limit for macros? Will they add one? Could we make sure /join is removed from the maco system. There is ZERO need for anyone to use it.
Message Edited by NippyBooBoo on 08-04-2004 08:42 AM
Tarnak_Archvold
Wed Aug 04, 2004 6:49 am
#52
I will just throw a suggestion for a solution in Here.
Make 2 types of macros, "Active" and "Passive"
A passive macro not use aliases, other macros or the /ui commands.
Aliases should work like passive macros.
A active macro could call passive macros, Aliases and use the /ui command.
Only one active macro could be run at the time.
That way the ones using sequences, countdowns and other stuff could still do so, and looping would still not be posible.
Make 2 types of macros, "Active" and "Passive"
A passive macro not use aliases, other macros or the /ui commands.
Aliases should work like passive macros.
A active macro could call passive macros, Aliases and use the /ui command.
Only one active macro could be run at the time.
That way the ones using sequences, countdowns and other stuff could still do so, and looping would still not be posible.