Musician Archive

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Baciacca wrote:

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Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
I am testing the waters here before I move on and post to the entertainer forum as well. Simply because I know the posting style in here better, and would like the fatback.

If there were no buffing ability in our profession, there would be no buff bots. How many people would have an extra account just for BF and mind wound healing? Not many, as I am sure live entertainers could antiquity for fill that function.

So what about all the AFK "entertainers". Well I am sure many of them is training up to be buff bots, or just training up to be able to log in a buff thair friends. When all these wear gone the live entertainers would become more visible, the ones sticking to the profession or taking it up would be the ones who was interested interesting in actuarially playing the professions, and hence would be a live entertainer.

The average combatant would properly not get to like us any more, nor respect us any more. I do not thing butch can be done to help that, the "1337 k!7z" (or however it is spelled) will never respect anyone who are not just like them self.

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This thread might as well say delete the entertainer professions because this is exactly what you are asking for. The ability to give mind/focus/willpower buffs is the heart of the entertainer professions. Without it, they have no bread and butter to keep them above the water.

What is wrong with players training up to buff their friends? How is this any different from leveling a doctor for the same reasons, or for leveling a crafter for guild purposes? What about leveling a politician for the use of only your city and you and your friends live in? Your arguments are illogical.

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Wow ...I just replied to 5 (FIVE) posts you made in another thread justifying buffbots. Here you say that buffing is our "Bread and Butter". Well we're all staving because the buffbots don't let us have any. In this thread, some people are saying they'd rather be happy and starve than be miserable and POSSIBLY be able to eat a bit.

Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Guild Leader - Performer United Professional Society (PUPS)
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
Contact S'ita for bookings
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra

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Drygo wrote:

If I recall correctly, entertainer missions at launch were around 300-400 credits, and you got them from some entertainer mission giver person in the theaters. Then, the mission terminals came out, the person in the theaters stopped giving the missions, and they were reduced to around 100 credits.

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Never did the npc missions but I can confirm what you said about the terminal missions, they came after release and were always crappy pay, at the time I crafted instruments for money, but after there were more entertainers around they started to sell the instruments for less than resource costs (or maybe they just had better access to resources than me, I got mine from the bazaar heh)

Its been so long and I've played other rpgs since then, but I seem to remember the entertainer buffs starting to be used heavily approximately the same time holocrons came out so maybe the buffs were the source of the downfall afterall, since I played mostly late at night I didn't get asked for buffs that often, but I didn't need much money anyway, about all I spent my money on was outfits, which reminds me I'm going to have to get some bio-engineered entertainer clothes

Message Edited by Beery on 11-04-2004 09:32 PM

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InvincibleOverlord wrote:
First of all, I would NOT advocate removal of mind buffs from the advanced entertainer it is the #1 source of income for the professions.

However, if that sort of action were to be taken it would make more sense to remove only the indirect or group buff. It is a lot harder, and would require 3rd party macroware (read against acceptable use policy) to AFK macro directed buffs. If you further wanted to reduce the ability to AFK macro, you can require active only healing. That would be the inverse of what is done now. Right now, if you want to NOT heal somebody, you have to /deny them. If you reverse that, you would also be able to enforce payment for services (or not), just as the medic profession.

But then, I am pretty sure most of what I just said has been said many, many times before.

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sadly, that is not true, there is a way to target a specific person and /setpreform them while afk. taking away hte group buff would only slow them, not stop them.

When i stand in a cantina there seems to be plenty of masters who can give the buff but for various reason just don't want to or want to and no one wants it. The buff is not like a doc buff, you know reliable and easy to apply. You listener could do 1 of any number of things and it screws up, hell if you stop dancing/playing by accident it screws it up!

The buff is not a reliable source of income unless you buff bot, this way customers know where to get a reliable source of buffs from. I was in coronet after a reboot you should have seen the queue for this one buff bott. She must have had a queue of 20 people. The trade is out there but it would rather go to an NPC then deal with us.

Has anyone come up with a decent idea on how to improve the ents income? I see a lot of improve the missons on the terms stuff but how just upping the money is not going work! Do we need new misson types as well? Sorry if its out there i have not seen it yet.

I would be truly sad if they removed this class from the game.

Message Edited by Beery on 11-08-2004 09:17 AM

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Beery wrote:

Just upping terminal moneyWOULD work. It would giveentertainers freedom from slavery to the combat classes (which is what I strongly believecurrently causes all the bad feeling between those classes). If wedidn't need to rely on combat classes for our incomeour serviceswould become a positive aspect of the game, rather than the annoying necessitythey areright now. However, the developers can't see that this needis what causes entertainers to be hated. They are convinced that entertainers must bemade to interact with the community, and they don't see that a voluntary interaction is far more healthy than one which is forced.

Message Edited by Beery on 11-08-2004 09:17 AM

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BrandonIT wrote:

On mission payouts:

The fact of the matter is entertainers have no money-sinks. Therefore, the class will get no increased income from the missions. Period. This is a balance issue for the devs and has very little, if any, possibility of being changed most likely. The economy is a balance, whatever money goes in, must go out. Right now, on some servers, inflation is taking over because there is still too much money coming in, and not enough going out.

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Have you done them? I get offered 200 credits payout and it costs me 475 credits in shuttle fees or 800 credits in swoop degradiation or an hour of running each way. So explain how they are balanced when they pay far less than the cost of completing the mission? Now balance that to one 35k janta mission covers my buffs, my travel, my armor wear and I can complete it in 5 minutes?

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BrandonIT wrote:
On mission payouts:

The fact of the matter is entertainers have no money-sinks. Therefore, the class will get no increased income from the missions. Period. This is a balance issue for the devs and has very little, if any, possibility of being changed most likely. The economy is a balance, whatever money goes in, must go out. Right now, on some servers, inflation is taking over because there is still too much money coming in, and not enough going out.

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Ok I will pick on that one as well.
The ONLY credit sinks in the games are: Travel (Vehicles/shuttles), Death (Cloning/Insurance), NPC Skill Training, and Maintains. We are subject to these, just as much as any other profession. Who do you think die most often, the pure entertainer who can be killed by a nightspider, or the super buffed combatant who run solo group missions on dantooine? Not to mention that faction death do not cost decay on death or require re-insurance.
When a combatant pays a crafter for equipment that credit does not vanish, it goes to another player, which is just moving credit around. In addition, when equipment decay as part of combat, then it is not removing value from the game, and the combatant comes out with more wealth then they had when they entered it. If they did not they would end up with out any equipment. Moreover, most crafters sell at a profit. That means that can get the resources used back and then some. So the combatant/crafter cycle is something like this.

1) Then the combatant goes out and make 2,000,000+ cr (maintains and travel and the like have to be covered).
2) Combatant buys a 2,000,000 cr set or armour.
3) The Crafter use the 2,000,000 cr to buy/harvest the resources to make a new set of armour and the maintains on factories/storage houses.
4) The crafter is left over with say 100,000 cr (very low profit).
5) Repeat as necessary.
This cycle feeds inflation. It does not prevent it. Moreover, the developers will never stop it; it is simply human nature to wand a higher income then thair expenses. Only by interdicting a kind of "property" tax that increase you maintain and cuts you mission payout depending on current wealth, can this be stopped... and guess what, that will never happen.

As it is, a pure entertainer is the perfect credit sink. We only get credit from other players, thus when we pay maintains or travel we remove credit from the game. And who have ever heard of any entertainer who have become rich only on entertaining, with out being a bot?

As to why give away "content". Well I do not se buffing and healing as contend. It is abilities and skill. Our contend would be our songs and dances.
We were supposed to be a separate play style, along side crafting, fighting, and healing. Instead, we became a less useful healing class, because we cannot provide direct combat support as medics can.
We were going to be the play style for the people that did not enjoy combat, and we was made 100% dependable on it. Not only does our credit comes from combatants, but the ill effect we earn our credits from removing is generated as a result of it.

Battle faituige/mindwounds is the roadblock that keep combatants from fighting non stop, all else can be cured in the field. Guess what that makes the general combatant feel about our profession.

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Baciacca wrote:

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Beery wrote:

Just upping terminal money WOULD work. It would give entertainers freedom from slavery to the combat classes (which is what I strongly believe currently causes all the bad feeling between those classes). If we didn't need to rely on combat classes for our income our services would become a positive aspect of the game, rather than the annoying necessity they are right now. However, the developers can't see that this need is what causes entertainers to be hated. They are convinced that entertainers must be made to interact with the community, and they don't see that a voluntary interaction is far more healthy than one which is forced.

Message Edited by Beery on 11-08-2004 09:17 AM

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So basically you think that the entertainers shouldn't need other players to purchase their services in order to make credits? Fair enough I guess, but then we should also make an option for crafters to be able to make money in ways other than selling their goods to other players. Then we should also make a way for Squad Leaders and Rangers to run missions in which they have no dependence on other players. Same for Bio-Engineers, hell, even Shipwrights. There is no reason that any class should have a support role in which there is co-dependence between themselves and the other classes.

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Crafters can run sample missions which pay a lot more than entertainer missions.