Musician Archive
Thread: Remove mind buffs from the entertainer professions.
abexy78 wrote:
There have always been AFKers, since launch.
Actually before the whole jedi nonsense afkers were much much rarer, I started playing when the tempest server came up, and I remember there were more non-afkers than afkers back then, now there are like 10x as many afkers as non-afkers... buffs aren't the problem, most people are just doing it for jedi, I just hope that getting rid of looping macros will help with the problem.
NewJedi wrote:
Speaking only for myself, I like having the ability to buff, and I would hate to lose that ability. I do think buffbots are a huge problem, but SOE is already committed to removing them via other means -- namely, removal of long-running recursive macros. I prefer that approach, personally.
Nonetheless, I'm glad you raised the issue, and I'll keep lurking here to see what others think.
Oh really? When is that?
Fact is we have no idea when and if they will actually address the issue or if they will actively work to solve the problem. From past experience I'd say that they will make a slight change but not address the problem at all.
Until it becomes POLICY and until the ingame tools to make buff bots possible are gone the problem will persist.... That is unless you take away the buffs entirely.
Beery wrote:"We all have had different experiences based on our servers."Well yeah, but the post I was responding to was talking about Tempest. I know darned well that Tempest had as many AFKers one month after release as it has now. The hologrind increased it a bit, but not much. Now it's back to normal. Other servers may vary, but Tempest definitely had a BIG AFK problem from the beginning.
Must have been playing in different cities then, I played exclusively in coronet, my tempest char was named Mori Oxitwi, I was one of the first Master Musician/Master Entertainers in that city.
Edit: Oddly enough I've been considering dropping doc and going back to master entertainer, because I don't like doc that much heh, then again I didn't like musician that much after the holocrons either, the choices were pretty well play in an area with 5+ afk players, or play in an area where nobody goes, either way isn't that good, maybe I should see if the guild I was in is still there, if it is I could play in the cantina and pray someone goes there once a day or so lol, maybe you can tell me if the guild is still around while I'm patching, it was called IOI, think they were going to have a name change, as you can tell I haven't played in a long time, its the western song, music droids, and possiblity of stopping looping macros that's making me come back.
Edit2: If you did play in coronet and don't recognize the name, I was a twilek female with purple markings that wore a white/purple grand ball gown and a white/purple grand twilek hat, I usually played at odd times of day too, so you might have never even met me heh.
Message Edited by ILoveSporksALot on 11-03-2004 08:37 PM
Beery wrote:
Well I was playing on Tempestamonth afterthe game was released, and my memory of it was that there was ALWAYS a majority of AFKers on Tempest all the way from then rightup until now. Even if it wasn't a majority, it was a very large minority. This idea that AFK play was a result of the hologrind is wishful thinking.
AFK macroing was first mentioned as a problem on 6-26-2003. That's the veryday the game was released!
On 8-5-2003 someone called MedelMAX wrote in
(http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=entertainer&message.id=2189&highlight=afk#M2189)
"It [AFK macroing]is NOT a bannable offense. If it is, over half (perhaps more) of all entertainers and artisans would be banned."
Which suggests that even five weeks after the game's release over 50% of entertainers routinely played while AFK.
On 8-23-2003 (that's 14 months ago,just a few weeks after the game's release, and well before the hologrind) someone calledLorileiwrote in
(http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dancer&message.id=4121#M4121):
"Right now, a relatively full cantinawill typically consist of anywhere between 25% and 75% of LAMErs [Long-term AFK Macro Entertainers]."
According to Lorilei that's an average of 50% of entertainers being AFK,eight weeksafter the game's release.
Message Edited by Beery on 11-03-2004 09:22 AM
We all have had different experiences based on our servers. I started on Lowca the day the server let us in, and I can count one one hand the number of people that were playing AFK in the cantinas I frequented (Bestine, which was the biggest draw for healing xp since we got all the rebs and imps fighting between Bestine and Anchorhead,then Theed and finally Coronet. You mostly found novices or combat types with limited entertainer skills in all the rest). And more importantly, those first AFKers had alot class and respect for their fellow entertainers and didn't try to ruin the earning ability of others as they merely wanted to level as fast as they could, so they tucked themselves into backrooms and such.
It was not until about the time of the holocron (was actually a little before, once people knew all you had to do to get a jedi was to grind all the professions) that the mass of AFKers arrived on Lowca, and then it was mostly the combat types that tried to emulate, in their shout macros, phrases and lines they had picked up listening to the real entertainers. Worst of all was that they dominated the center, or "prime spots" in the cantinas. No respect at all for the people who played an entertainer as their profession of choice.
All the mind numbing rubbish that was being shouted in spatial, the rude treatment by the new breed of AFKer, as well as the loss of respect for our profession because it was laughably easy to master, if you AFKed it, ruined my days in the cantina. I left, as did most of the others.
I had a long list of clients at one time. I knew who was Rebel, who was Imperial. I knew what professions they were (Before the badge system), what they liked to hunt, what weapons they used and I was treated, mostly, with the utmost respect.
When I left the cantina scene in Bestine ( which was my main haunt ) I tried to work some of the advanced planet "cantinas", but I was for the most part ignored because those places were the prime spots for AFKers, and many of the people I met while doing my advanced planet "tour of duty"didn't want to socialize anyhow, just kill, heal, kill, anything that would get them a jedi faster.
The game became "The Grind" and not a place conductive to socialization, where the grind was fueled by the desire to get a jedi, which the holocron system validated for most people and actually enabled the behavior. I admit there are still a great many people who still respect and like to, or used to like to, hit the cantinas and blow off some steam before going back into "the field", but they are rarely around anymore.
These are my observations of what was the turning point and failure of the entertainer professions, IMO.
Durney
I'll say for Tempest that rudeness (from AFKtainers, buffbots, and those who use them) has probably not spread quite as far as on other servers. For example, there is no buffbot in Theed, where I frequent. One showed up for a day or two, but my friends and I ran it out.
I'm certainly not saying it's not a problem on Tempest, and I would never go to Coronet *shudder* to play, but I think we're at least more even tempered about things.
Granted, Mo'ste recently was angered enough by buffbot problems that he's taking a break from the game (it better just be a break
).. his experiences were mostly on Dantooine, I believe.Anyways, IOI still exists, though I don't see as much of a presence as I used to. Feel free to hit me up in game though
. Like I said, I frequent Theed, and I have a few completely non-afk ent friends and some non-evilly-afking friends (i.e. they afk but they don't spam or what not), as well as a good number of ent-supporter friends .Scipionus Mentus is my in-game-name.
Message Edited by Beery on 11-04-2004 06:56 AM
But even the if missions was left as is, and the payout was just increased, then it would have a beneficial effect. How many entertainers have to spend some of thair skills points on something that can get them a income, how many people choose not to become entertainers and go with the profession that can earn credit, and then just hang out with entertainers to have fun?""
By Tarnak
Yes i am suggesting that people need to be more locked into cantina's. Maybe this is from a mis guided view that we are just healing and buffing machines (which i don't think we are). At least everyone knows where to find an ent atm in a cantina. My dream has always been to give street perfomances to crowds with a tipping hat or droid out front barking the crowd for tips etc
I have been thinking about this and the comments everyone has made. Removing the buff might not be such a bad idea after all as long as the ents could generate a resonable income in some manner.
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
I am testing the waters here before I move on and post to the entertainer forum as well. Simply because I know the posting style in here better, and would like the fatback.
If there were no buffing ability in our profession, there would be no buff bots. How many people would have an extra account just for BF and mind wound healing? Not many, as I am sure live entertainers could antiquity for fill that function.
So what about all the AFK "entertainers". Well I am sure many of them is training up to be buff bots, or just training up to be able to log in a buff thair friends. When all these wear gone the live entertainers would become more visible, the ones sticking to the profession or taking it up would be the ones who was interested interesting in actuarially playing the professions, and hence would be a live entertainer.
The average combatant would properly not get to like us any more, nor respect us any more. I do not thing butch can be done to help that, the "1337 k!7z" (or however it is spelled) will never respect anyone who are not just like them self.
This thread might as well say delete the entertainer professions because this is exactly what you are asking for. The ability to give mind/focus/willpower buffs is the heart of the entertainer professions. Without it, they have no bread and butter to keep them above the water.
What is wrong with players training up to buff their friends? How is this any different from leveling a doctor for the same reasons, or for leveling a crafter for guild purposes? What about leveling a politician for the use of only your city and you and your friends live in? Your arguments are illogical.