Musician Archive
Thread: Whats so bad about afkers!?
I dont even wanna know what that means @_@
YES! ---- i agree
i dont really mind afk entertainer.....becasue honestly if every entertainer had ot be on...well there would be alot less (not so bad in big cantinas) but waht about those ones on dathomir or yavin with there lone, nice, person who deicided to jsu tplay there afk instead of signing off , incase some peopel cam ein and needed healin and no one was around.
not sayin a like t walk into acantina and see nothin but a horde of afkers (that sucks) they need to spread themselves out if they want to do it (like that will ever happen they want precious group xp)
BUT if i EVER see a afk musican asking formoney i become very angry and usaly end up slappin them ...alot and personly putting my nalorgan infront of them and play over top of em 
i dont think any afk macroer shoudl talk, i find it very annoying ...buti save my slaps for those who ask for money
Most characters who need healing need it because they got banged up hunting or fighting. That type of player rarely wants to spend time talking to entertainers in the cantina. They want to get healed up and move on back to the game.
I don't see why the roleplaying entertainers don't just go to the cantina and chat, if that's what they want.
No offense, but I think that the extreme majority of the non-entertainer community cares only about the fastest, most available mind heals and buffs.
NewJedi wrote:At launch, we actually *socialized* in public cantina. Yes, that's right, we were all at the keyboard, and we shmoozed with each other and with customers. It was fun.
AFK dancer buffbots, or even the new afk doctor buffbots, add the ability for any player to receive a timely and quick buff at any time. That need will be there long after the holos are gone.
Guilds will provide this service for their members. Player cities will provide it to entice people to move there.
This argument reminds me of the assembly line workers complaining in the 1980's about robots taking their jobs. They never said, "That robot does not do as good a job as I do", or "That robot is less efficient and more expensive than I am". They said "What am I supposed to do now?" "That robot took my job".
Legitimate concern for the lineworkers, but for their suffering the customers got the cars they wanted faster, and with better quality control.
The entertainer community is not going to stop human nature or high school economics. If you want to socialize, go to the cantina and do that with the others who want to, who seem to be mostly other entertainers.
If you want to make money, then you have to figure out, as a community, what specialized services you can provide that makes people want to use you over the bot. It seems you guys had that with the 60-second buff and you immediately fought to get rid of it because it wasn't "fun".
It doesn't work both ways. If you want money, run a business. If you want to socialize, go to the cantina and socialize.
You just plain aren't going to force the non-roleplaying majority away from the buffbots just because the "long way" is more fun for you. Adapt to the market or find new ways to make money.
I don't mean this as a flame, just the opinion of a regular user of entertainment services and a member of the leadership of a large guild that always tries to have entertainers available for our members, afk or not.
PoetDancer wrote:
Unattendedness does not really make the game more fun or adds anything constructive for anyone. It merely is a thing one can do for the time being to satisfy some prerequisite for something else.
That is ALL the majority want out of an entertainer, unless they are planning a special event or something. Not to say that people don't have fun entertaining, I'm just not one of them.
Tralmek wrote:This isyet another reasonwhy afk macroing the professions is bad for the community. You invested none of yourself into them so they are NOT satisfying for you when you level up because you did nothing to earn that position.
Vermicious_Knid wrote:
That is ALL the majority want out of an entertainer, unless they are planning a special event or something.
That statement is youropinion only. Kindly remember that.
It is my opinion, and I state it respectfully. I'm not here to troll, I'm going to make a musician/dancer for my guild and I'm trying to get a feel for the profession and learn how to serve my clientele as best I can.
I think that dancers could earn a fortune if they approached their profession (at least the money earning part) like a business, rather than a time for "fun". Unfortunately, you can rarely have both.
Examples from other professions:
1) Doctors can earn tremendous amounts of money by buffing the public, but it is a major hassle. We (I have a master doc too) don't get the sexual harassment so much like the entertainers do, but go on over to the doc forum and see rant after rant about the hassles of buffing for money.
2) Check out the smith forums. They make a ton of money but are besieged with tells, stupid questions, and demands for products that don't exist/critisism about their wares and prices.
3) Slicers deal with annoyance constantly. Like doctors, many do not wear their tag anymore.
4) I make my money as a merchant, for the most part. It's lucrative, but I spend literally hours and hours checking harvesters, stocking my vendors, advertising on the forums, and "working the crowds" in the big cities. Not spamming, but going around to see who needs something I can direct them to my vendor to buy and who's selling something cheaply enough that I can resell it for a profit. These are not my favorite in-game things to do but I have a combat character to support and I like to buy new/interesting things, keep myself in armor and weapons, and help my guild and my guildmates financially.
What's the common thread here? With any of the above professions, you have to do things which aren't necessaily the "fun" part of the profession for you if you want to maximize your cash. The less money you want, the more you can play forr yourself. The more money you want, the more you need to find and service your market.
Entertainers have a tremendously marketable product due to the fact that you can heal and buff the mind, which no other profession can do. Yes, things like brandy, canapes, muon, and blue milk exist. However, they are generally sold by the case and cost several hundred thousand credits. Many players can't afford it. Also, your entertainer buffs can be used IN ADDITION to all of those things. A serious PVP player will get a mind buff and then load up on the food/drugs and end up with 3000 or so mind for their raid. A bigtime hunter can make several hundred thousand credits during the duration of a buff. They will pay for that advantage. I know because I do, all the time, and so do all of the hunters and PVP players in my large guild, and so do the people I talk to everyday.
What I would do if I were a dancer or other entertainer and needed money is find out where the market is for buffs and service it, with the buffs being delivered as quickly as possible. If that means hooking up with a guild or being "on call", great. If that means going to an adventure planet and dancing/playing there, also great. You won't get paid for healing anytime in the near future, but docs don't either and they have thrived financially, even though they have to buy or harvest rare resources to make their buffs and you don't. And you can definitely get paid for buffing.
I see a lot of entertainers complain about dancers "hiding out in player cantinas". They are there because the guilds and player cities want their members to have access to your valuable services. They are also there because if they weren't, then much of the time the guildies/citizens would go without, and that's not acceptable. If you run a guild, which I help to do, you take care of your people.
I can assure you that most of the player cities would prefer a live dancer, a dancer who wants to be a dancer. Most of the player cities have dancers who are taking up half of a combat character's skill points or alt accounts that someone has to pay for, which they would not pay for if there were not this unserved need. They are an annoyance to those who have them. It's either $15 a month to leave them afk, or it's constant tells "are you buffing?", "where's dancer'snamehere?", "dude, I need a buff", etc. This interrupts the things that the owner of that toon actually wants to be doing, whether it's crafting, hunting, fighting, exploring, whatever. Manypeople maintaining these buffbots out of need would love to hear from you, I can assure you.
Imagine your guild or city needed a weaponsmith and you, as a leader, had to either use up some skill points or maintain a second account because no one else could or would be one. Every time you were in the middle of having fun as a dancer or entertainer, you got bombarded with tells pertaining to the second profession, about which you could care less, but they were persistent and you dealt with them every time you logged in. You'd probably be very happy to have someone else make the weapons, if you could find them.
Find the market and service it, and give the customer what they want. That's how anybody, anywhere makes money. You have the advantage over the buffbot. Even if there's a bot in the same cantina, you can stand closer to the door and use your social skills to get the customer to use you for the buff. Find out what they are charging and charge less, unless their price is ridiculously low. If it is, go somewhere else. The faster you can deliver a buff, the more you can focus on the individual customer and not have to make people wait for a group to form. If you can get 5-10k a buff, and the buff can be given in a minute or two, that's great money fast. If people don't tip, don't buff them. Just like any other profession.
Some cities like Wolve's Den, Dragon Flats, New Alderaan, and other cities owned by large guilds always have people in them. I'm not too familiar with the Imperial side, but I'm sure it's the same. Or, after the hologrind passes set yourselves up on Coronet or Theed and just /addignore any buffbots who are there.
Find the market and sell yoruself. It may not be the most "fun" way to play but if you're concerned with money, that's what I suggest.
Now you ask me to find a way to earn income. Quite frankly, I don't know. Maybe you can answer how a dancer can earn income dancing. Seriously, I'd like to know what kind of answer you'd give me.
Vermicious_Knid wrote:
I think that dancers could earn a fortune if they approached their profession (at least the money earning part) like a business, rather than a time for "fun".I do approach my occupation as a business. I don't talk in groupchat, I go to areas of high visibility, and I wear my tags.I'm in the hospitality business. Unfortunately, you can rarely have both. I'll buff 6 hours straight if I'm on.
Examples from other professions:
1) Doctors can earn tremendous amounts of money by buffing the public, but it is a major hassle. We (I have a master doc too) don't get the sexual harassment so much like the entertainers do, but go on over to the doc forum and see rant after rant about the hassles of buffing for money. I WISH they'd call me again. I get requests for buffs, and I do them as long as I can. Why? Its the only time when I feel useful.
2) Check out the smith forums. They make a ton of money but are besieged with tells, stupid questions, and demands for products that don't exist/critisism about their wares and prices. True, but they don't get /tells saying, "why don't you do a real occupation," or "why don't you shut up and set a macro." The culture on the servers today simply thinks I'm wierd for playing a dancer. Why? Its so easy and does the same basic thing as a mule.
3) Slicers deal with annoyance constantly. Like doctors, many do not wear their tag anymore. I can go to Dathomir outpost and have people literally run past me with their blue bar half black to go to Coronet to get their mind wounds healed.
4) I make my money as a merchant, for the most part. It's lucrative, but I spend literally hours and hours checking harvesters, stocking my vendors, advertising on the forums, and "working the crowds" in the big cities. Not spamming, but going around to see who needs something I can direct them to my vendor to buy and who's selling something cheaply enough that I can resell it for a profit. These are not my favorite in-game things to do but I have a combat character to support and I like to buy new/interesting things, keep myself in armor and weapons, and help my guild and my guildmates financially. At least you don't have a merchant vendor right next to you that gives out everything you work hard to do for 1 credit each.
What's the common thread here? With any of the above professions, you have to do things which aren't necessaily the "fun" part of the profession for you if you want to maximize your cash. The less money you want, the more you can play forr yourself. The more money you want, the more you need to find and service your market. Again, why pay for entertainment at all, when AFKers will do everything we can for free 24/7?
Entertainers have a tremendously marketable product due to the fact that you can heal and buff the mind, which no other profession can do. Yes, things like brandy, canapes, muon, and blue milk exist. However, they are generally sold by the case and cost several hundred thousand credits. Many players can't afford it. Also, your entertainer buffs can be used IN ADDITION to all of those things. A serious PVP player will get a mind buff and then load up on the food/drugs and end up with 3000 or so mind for their raid. A bigtime hunter can make several hundred thousand credits during the duration of a buff. They will pay for that advantage. I know because I do, all the time, and so do all of the hunters and PVP players in my large guild, and so do the people I talk to everyday. Yes, but you get these things from bots 24/7 for free, not players who want to do this thing as the developers intended.
What I would do if I were a dancer or other entertainer and needed money is find out where the market is for buffs and service it, with the buffs being delivered as quickly as possible. If that means hooking up with a guild or being "on call", great. If that means going to an adventure planet and dancing/playing there, also great. You won't get paid for healing anytime in the near future, but docs don't either and they have thrived financially, even though they have to buy or harvest rare resources to make their buffs and you don't. And you can definitely get paid for buffing. Yes, and let me tell you about docs. There can be a room full of them stimming tumblers instead of healing the injured. I can tip them 1000 credits, and they STILL won't heal the injured. And I think you don't understand my situation. Those who pay for buffs are getting rarer and rarer. Why? The bots can churn these things out for free. Whole PAs are not using my services, and when they do, they never tip. Because they know that even if I say no or get mad, I am powerless to stop it.
I see a lot of entertainers complain about dancers "hiding out in player cantinas". They are there because the guilds and player cities want their members to have access to your valuable services. They are also there because if they weren't, then much of the time the guildies/citizens would go without, and that's not acceptable. If you run a guild, which I help to do, you take care of your people. So why don't you pay someone to be there when you need it? Nobody will do it? Why is that? First of all, the people who actually play an entertainer may number about a dozen on each server. Never used to be this way. Maybe a hundered or so around September. But you don't want the live player. You want a bot. Why? Bots, like you said, do our job better because they defy the bounds of playability.
I can assure you that most of the player cities would prefer a live dancer, a dancer who wants to be a dancer. Most of the player cities have dancers who are taking up half of a combat character's skill points or alt accounts that someone has to pay for, which they would not pay for if there were not this unserved need. They are an annoyance to those who have them. It's either $15 a month to leave them afk, or it's constant tells "are you buffing?", "where's dancer'snamehere?", "dude, I need a buff", etc. This interrupts the things that the owner of that toon actually wants to be doing, whether it's crafting, hunting, fighting, exploring, whatever. Manypeople maintaining these buffbots out of need would love to hear from you, I can assure you. I doubt that's the case. They'd want me to become their bot, for sure, so they don't have to maintain the account, but they don't want the live thing. What's going to happen when I'm not on? They'll just go to the bot anyway.
Imagine your guild or city needed a weaponsmith and you, as a leader, had to either use up some skill points or maintain a second account because no one else could or would be one. Every time you were in the middle of having fun as a dancer or entertainer, you got bombarded with tells pertaining to the second profession, about which you could care less, but they were persistent and you dealt with them every time you logged in. You'd probably be very happy to have someone else make the weapons, if you could find them. But with entertainer, you can do both at the same time: get an entertainer with 10 lots attached, and a main playing at the same time.
Find the market and service it, and give the customer what they want. That's how anybody, anywhere makes money. You have the advantage over the buffbot. How? Even if there's a bot in the same cantina, you can stand closer to the door and use your social skills to get the customer to use you for the buff. Find out what they are charging and charge less, unless their price is ridiculously low. I call free rediculously low...after all, there is no way a bot can enforce payment, so its essentially free. If it is, go somewhere else. Out to Doaba Gurfeil or Vrenti Island? Problem is there are no customers there. The faster you can deliver a buff, the more you can focus on the individual customer and not have to make people wait for a group to form. I won't use expliots to buff quicker. If you can get 5-10k a buff, and the buff can be given in a minute or two, that's great money fast. Ah...the good old days. I long for them too. If people don't tip, don't buff them. They'll just get everything I have to give from an unattended dancer anyways. Just like any other profession. With every other profession, you have to be at the keys to do it. With these three, you can do everything in the game mecanics as a live player, but never be at the keys.
Some cities like Wolve's Den, Dragon Flats, New Alderaan, and other cities owned by large guilds always have people in them. I'm not too familiar with the Imperial side, but I'm sure it's the same. Or, after the hologrind passes set yourselves up on Coronet or Theed and just /addignore any buffbots who are there. /addignoring bots doesn't do me any good.
Find the market and sell yoruself. It may not be the most "fun" way to play but if you're concerned with money, that's what I suggest. Again, if this model worked, why do you own a bot? Because I have tried every trick in the book to get them to use my services and tip me, and I WORK for the tips. I greet at the door, I use every manner of wit and charm, I get appreciation for sure...but no tips. I go to the deathworlds, but its rare to get patrons there, and in many cases they bring their own bot (BYOB). I've been to the grind capitals, and we get the levelers giving out free service. I tried creating an entertainer channel where customers can log in, ask for services from the dozen or so on there, and have us come to you. Problem was, nobody used it. I run with my tags. I get /telled a lot from people, but nobody who actually wants to PAY for buffs. You see, nobody wants to wait, nobody wants to seek out someone like you do with docs and weaponsmiths and smugglers, because there is an assumption that what we do shouldn't be compensated because we do not use resources. This fact, plus the fact that one may completely automate the character, means that this is simply not a viable means to make an income. So maybe those who are currently playing the profession should just do something else like Bounty Hunter, drop our entertaining skills, and just get services off of the unattended ones and the buffbots. Like you said, we are obsolete. There are better ways to do what we do than to play entertainer. Non-players can do the job.
Now you ask me to find a way to earn income. Quite frankly, I don't know. Maybe you can answer how a dancer can earn income dancing. Seriously, I'd like to know what kind of answer you'd give me.