Musician Archive
Thread: Whats so bad about afkers!?
PoetDancer
Sun Apr 18, 2004 4:30 pm
#14
Short term? Perhaps there is some financial incentive. Long term? A death knell. Because sooner or later, people are going to get sick and tired of a game that doesn't seem to make sense.in terms of being able to influence a world they are not actually drawing enjoyment from. Unattendedness does not really make the game more fun or adds anything constructive for anyone. It merely is a thing one can do for the time being to satisfy some prerequisite for something else. I mean, we are losing subscribers daily today, and unattendedness has a green light. Can you honestly say that Sony would prefer some subscriber and his alt over two genuine players? Yes its the same $30, but the actual effect breaks the game in ways that takes all the fun out of a MMOLRPG. People don't subscribe to something to interact with unattended characters. They do it to interact with people. But the more non-players seem to do the functions of players, the more customers say why play at all? Hence, /cancel.
FrostBrimstone wrote:
don't complain about the AFKers. complain of the DEVs who made it allowable to run the game on Macros. Blame the DEVs who instituted Holocrons on everyone. Without the holocrons, you would have hardly anyone doing this profession at all. I find the profession utterly boring. I find the fact that I am allowed to create a macro, type in AFK and then go on another account and play to me hearts content, or even do this while I am at work or asleep is what I want.
EQ/DAOC/UO and many others all hate unatended macroing and even ban folks from it, but ppl are still going to do it. When it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, unattended macroing is going to stay.
why?
$14.99 from 500000 subscripers each month is why. or roughly $7.5 mil dollars a month
you make it where they have to spend 4-8 mos to do a profession that is not going to get them a chance to be jedi, then you are going to lose ppl. No company is going to please a handful of whiners who play the game when a majority of the customers are the AFKers and still pay for their time to play and pay.
that is roughly about 6 mil dollars there. or 72 mil a year. I would be ticked too if I lost y customers cause of others and it cost me $72 mil a year
Goldshadow
Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:29 pm
#15
Rancor_Durni wrote:
. . . . . . the only difference is when i start playing i have more enjoyment because i have more skills and didn't work for them.
Is it just me or is this the most sad commentary on the state of SWG you've ever heard? Just read the red text and tell me how it sounds. The rest is all just superfluous.
Beloved of KirahFaye
Master Musician and Entertainer
Co-Owner of Bishops' Sanctuary
Veritas, Naboo
PoetDancer
Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 am
#16
Rancor_Durni wrote:
What your saying is absolute crap. Your saying its bad because the person who is macroing is there but isnt there and they are not playing the game. Thats ridiculous, they do play the game. your arguement assumes the person just goes in there and macros instead of playing. The person who is macroing is as good as you when they are there and remains a productive player when they are not there. Macroing is just a better way of playing, on top of you allready being as good and even better than everyone else, you can not be there and still perform averagly. There is nothing wrong with that, i macro all the time, i macrod to master armorsmith in a day. I macro'd to bounty hunter as my first proffession. I macro'd hunting with a group all night. I am a good player allready, the only difference is when i start playing i have more enjoyment because i have more skills and didn't work for them.
You cannot play if you are not at the tools you need to play, which includes the keyboard, mouse, and monitor. This should be self-evidently obvious. What you are describing is a variation of not playing. Its influencing the game world that mimics play. However, you are not a player, and you have the same status as somebody who has logged out. The only difference is that you are still able to manipulate the game world in a way that mimics play, yet is not constrained by the same limits as players are. That's cheating. Only difference is its a cheat that SOE has not seen fit to fix....yet. However, I can guarantee you this. The more people start taking advantage of the macro system and use it as asubstitute rather than an aid to genuine play, and be so blatantly obvious to justify it, it will get nerfed.
SinnAsyr
Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:36 am
#17
Rancor_Durni wrote:
Also in a proffession such as musician and entertainer, where it is not only easy beyond comprehension but mind numbingly boring, macroing can keep an interest in the game. There are very, VERY few people who can do a proffession which only has nine real moves and a selection of 8 or so different songs for more than five minutes without thinking its total un utter boring rubbish. I personally think musician is one of the more boring proffessions and i am sick off seeing Coronet cantina's walls at the moment.
I got two words for you, buddy.......SCREW YOU!
I am tired of all you AFKers saying, "It's boring", "I have other things to do", whine whine whine......
IF IT IS BORING, why the heck are you doing it???
IF YOU HAVE OTHER THINGS TO DO, then why the heck are you playing a VIDEO GAME?!?!
Go play a profession you LIKE. That is what WE are doing!
Yeah, thats right, people WANT to be entertainers. So stop ruining it for US by forgetting holocrons and Jedi.
And also, if you think going afk and spamming is gonna make you money, your pretty wrong..............
My bitterness has unleashed itself 
Korrack
Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:20 am
#18
Folks, the entire AFK macro thing will be moot when the Jedi hologrind disappears in a month or so. Until then, the best we can do is band together and not invite AFK macroers into our band groups, encourage people to listen to us by greeting them as they enter the cantina (I know this works cos without a group, I managed to get a few thousand musician healing xp in coronet by myself simply by greeting people. Didn't hurt I was wearing a tusken outfit either). We can do our profession despite the hologrinders.
But all in all, once they are gone, the cantinas will be left to those of us who want to be an entertainer. Macros themselves are not evil. I myself use a looping flourish macro and I am willing to be most masters do too. I use it so I don't have to type /flourish over and over and over. I don't use this when doing a gig for money, only for sitting in the cantina and chilling. I use the macro so I can do the other part of my profession...entertain. I sing, I rap, I chat with people. You'd be amazed how much of a tip you get from someone because you expressed an interest in why they came into the cantina. I only go afk when I am eating dinner (If I eat on the couch I can watch the screen and do minor typing) or when my baby needs a new diaper or is hungry.
How's it going?
Wow, something ate your brain!
Had a bad day huh?
/greet
/beckon
Offering a free buff if they tipped you well for the heal
The entertaining will soon again be done by entertainers and not hologrinders who don't really want to be there anyway.
By doing the above items, I have been making about 50k credits an hour for the past few days (altho I have only spend a few hours each day entertaining). Not bad for doing what I want to do in game.
nvoigt
Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:46 am
#19
What is honestly so bad about afk macroing? I do it every night and can cap out on boxes up to tier two. There is nothing wrong with it, if you come back every once in a while.
look.
Macro name=entertainme
/startmusic starwars3
/say Please invite me to the entertainer group!
/join
/flourish 1
/pause 2
/flourish 2
/pause 2
/flourish 3
/pause 3
/flourish 4
/macro starwars3
What is wrong with doing that for a few hours, it doesn't hurt anyone, unelss it has an annoying repetative speech in it.
Macro name=hunting
/follow
/equip pistol
/join
/pause 30
/say Invite me to your hunting group pls
/join
/maskscent
/heal self
Whats wrong about this macro ? It's nice right ? My AFK hunting macro. I bet you like it when I follow you for the next three hours spamming you... Don't you think that the /say line alone qualifies your macro as "annoying repetative speech" ? *sigh*
TuskKiller
Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:50 pm
#20
Anti-AFKers are whiners and want everybody to conform to the way they play.... they are pretty much powerless to prevent people from doing it, so this is the one place they can come and whine and blow off steam. Never make a pro-afk message is musician/dancer forums. Also, never mention holo-grinding in ANY profession forum.... the profession forums are dominated by the hard-cores. They hate tourists to their professions. Although this is Sony's fault, they will take it out on you (since Sony rarely listens or responds to them).
PoetDancer
Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:42 pm
#21
I see AFKers come in here all the time and say it is a legitimate playstyle. I also see live entertainers argue that unattended entertainment is an illegitimate playstyle. However, both are wrong. Theissue of whether unattended entertainment is legitimate or illegitimate is not a an issue at all because unattendedness is not a playstyle. Its an abandonment of play. Its a deliberate decision to influence the game world, while not being a part of it.
Unattended characters are not persons in the same way that players are, and operate under a different set of assumptions than players. Unattended characters can also do some things better than players, simply because they refuse to play. They have no feelings, they have no ambition, they derrive no enjoyment from the activities they do, and they feel no need to be better or worse than the next character...player or not. This allows unattended characters to stay in cantinas long before and after players are willing to be there, perform the actions they are programed to do, and not feel any need to leave if circumstances change or are not beneficial. They simply do what they are told to do, and left to influence the game world while the account subscriber does something else. But they do influence the game world, both individually and collectively, where players are trying to play. They offer up a new variable within the context of the environment that does not have the same constraints as players, and that has a profound effect.
Because if I am insulted, I leave the cantina. You can insult anunattended characterand have it still give you service. If I am not making credits, I leave the cantina. Anunattended characterdoes not leave if its not getting credits. If I get tired, I log off and go to sleep. An unattended entertainer does not need sleep. If I get bored, I go somewhere else. An unattended character does not get bored. It can do these superhuman acts because there is no human being behind the character anymore when it goes AFK. It simply does what it is programmed to do. These are ENORMOUS advantages for those who are willing to treat aserver character in a manner different than what server characters are designed to do: be a vehicle for interactive amusement.
So argue whether unattended entertainment is legitimate act all you want, but you will NEVER convince me that it is a legitimate playstyle. The more you try to argue that unattentiveness is a playstyle, the more foolish the arguments become. You cannot play if you are not at the tools you need to play. You cannot play if you log on for reasons other than the enjoyment of playing a character. Whether you can do it or not is to be determined by SOE, but I'll tell you this much, what you do can be many things, but its not playing a musician.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 04-21-2004 08:56 PM
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 04-21-2004 08:57 PM
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 04-21-2004 08:58 PM
Fragpuppie
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:20 pm
#23
TuskKiller wrote:
Anti-AFKers are whiners and want everybody to conform to the way they play.... they are pretty much powerless to prevent people from doing it, so this is the one place they can come and whine and blow off steam. Never make a pro-afk message is musician/dancer forums.
AFK...don't afk...I don't care. However, if you don't care about the professions why should the professionals care about you.
Also, never mention holo-grinding in ANY profession forum.... the profession forums are dominated by the hard-cores. They hate tourists to their professions. Although this is Sony's fault, they will take it out on you (since Sony rarely listens or responds to them).
The profession forums are dominated by people who persue the professions because they want to do the profession, not to be, in your word, a tourist. Yes Sony implemented the holo system, and it is their fault. They are also changing it as they see that the way they envisioned the system and how the system is working inpractice are completely different from each other.
I think Sony wanted people to experiment with many different professions, trying a variety, and being rewarded for their embracing many aspects of the game and playing a variety of different styles. I don't think they intended it to be "who can race through 32 professions fastest". Who would want that as a goal? Even worse, who do you think would have fun with that?
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Guild Leader - Performer United Professional Society (PUPS)
Band Leader and Booking Agent - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Guild Leader - Performer United Professional Society (PUPS)
Band Leader and Booking Agent - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
TuskKiller
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:41 pm
#24
"AFK...don't afk...I don't care. However, if you don't care about the professions why should the professionals care about you."
Well, a general rule, I tend to care more about people that virtual concepts, but that's just me.
Also, never mention holo-grinding in ANY profession forum.... the profession forums are dominated by the hard-cores. They hate tourists to their professions. Although this is Sony's fault, they will take it out on you (since Sony rarely listens or responds to them).
"The profession forums are dominated by people who persue the professions because they want to do the profession, not to be, in your word, a tourist."
That's exactly what I said...... "tourists" are the hologrinders that "visit" a profession temporarily and leave. There just needs to be a "hologrinders profession" forum since their "profession" is respected by nobody (I would think musicians could besympathetic tothat) and they are unwelcome in any profession forum...... a place to have all those grinding guides and macros and keep them away from the people that would be offended by them.
"Yes Sony implemented the holo system, and it is their fault. They are also changing it as they see that the way they envisioned the system and how the system is working inpractice are completely different from each other.
I think Sony wanted people to experiment with many different professions, trying a variety, and being rewarded for their embracing many aspects of the game and playing a variety of different styles. I don't think they intended it to be "who can race through 32 professions fastest". Who would want that as a goal? Even worse, who do you think would have fun with that?"
Nobody wants that.... Sony messed up. That's why I say, "HATE THE GAME, NOT THE PLAYER" but you guys are just "player haters" my snizzle foshizzle.
PoetDancer
Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:17 pm
#25
How can we be "player haters" when unattended entertainers aren't players?
BothanPilot
Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:32 pm
#26
PoetDancer wrote:I see AFKers come in here all the time and say it is a legitimate playstyle. I also see live entertainers argue that unattended entertainment is an illegitimate playstyle. However, both are wrong. Theissue of whether unattended entertainment is legitimate or illegitimate is not a an issue at all because unattendedness is not a playstyle. Its an abandonment of play. Its a deliberate decision to influence the game world, while not being a part of it.Unattended characters are not persons in the same way that players are, and operate under a different set of assumptions than players. Unattended characters can also do some things better than players, simply because they refuse to play. They have no feelings, they have no ambition, they derrive no enjoyment from the activities they do, and they feel no need to be better or worse than the next character...player or not. This allows unattended characters to stay in cantinas long before and after players are willing to be there, perform the actions they are programed to do, and not feel any need to leave if circumstances change or are not beneficial. They simply do what they are told to do, and left to influence the game world while the account subscriber does something else. But they do influence the game world, both individually and collectively, where players are trying to play. They offer up a new variable within the context of the environment that does not have the same constraints as players, and that has a profound effect.Because if I am insulted, I leave the cantina. You can insult anunattended characterand have it still give you service. If I am not making credits, I leave the cantina. Anunattended characterdoes not leave if its not getting credits. If I get tired, I log off and go to sleep. An unattended entertainer does not need sleep. If I get bored, I go somewhere else. An unattended character does not get bored. It can do these superhuman acts because there is no human being behind the character anymore when it goes AFK. It simply does what it is programmed to do. These are ENORMOUS advantages for those who are willing to treat aserver character in a manner different than what server characters are designed to do: be a vehicle for interactive amusement.So argue whether unattended entertainment is legitimate act all you want, but you will NEVER convince me that it is a legitimate playstyle. The more you try to argue that unattentiveness is a playstyle, the more foolish the arguments become. You cannot play if you are not at the tools you need to play. You cannot play if you log on for reasons other than the enjoyment of playing a character. Whether you can do it or not is to be determined by SOE, but I'll tell you this much, what you do can be many things, but its not playing a musician.Message Edited by PoetDancer on 04-21-2004 08:56 PM
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 04-21-2004 08:57 PM
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 04-21-2004 08:58 PM
/clap
/appluad
/cheer