Musician Archive
Thread: Whats so bad about afkers!?
Niaseek: Yes, almost everyone uses macros, this does not mean we AFK macro--macros are a tool to use while playing the game. I have no problem with people using the macro system except when they use it in ways it was never meant to be used for.
Tackoi: I too once thought as you do, however this exploitation of AFK macroing with people shouting as well as the influx of profession-ruining macrotainers has caused me to become less forgiving in my position. The only way to prevent these people from continuing to stand in the front entrance of cantinas spamming is to make it impossible for them to AFK macro.
BHjedikiller: See my response to Tackoi. Also, in response to the thing about "what about the little outposts," please remember that it is not always possible to locate a doctor, and while this may be a minor annoyance, people can understand that most doctors haven't bothered with setting up afk macros in these places. Unfortunately people have been spoiled into believing that we the entertainers should be available 24/7 when it is humanly impossible to fill that role without exploiting the macro system. (in which case you're not doing something humanly impossible, your computer is doing it.)
Oh, and, I hope you enjoy your Musician character, personally I didn't enjoy BH when I had one, but hey, each to his own! Good luck and please feel free to come on by the boards anytime for help or advice. 
We're happy to have you here.
Mariki: Beautiful name, it reminds me of a name one ofmy cats had. I remember the days you describe, that was when I was dumb and didn't have an entertainer character but instead played an artisan exclusively *shudders* I never want to go back to those dark times.(of solely being an artisan)
I do, however want to return to the times when the cantinas were hopping with excited entertainers and patrons who interacted with one another constantly. Where else could you find a smuggler willing to slice your weapon or an entertainer to give you a hint on what ways people have been selling items successfully? I remember when chefs actually stood behind the NPC cantinas' bars and sold their drinks...this is what cantinas were like before AFK macrotainers. I too hope that one day we can return the cantinas to their former glory. But this is impossible so long as there are macrotainers around.
More replies when I return from my next few classes. Next reply will be to Vermicious_Knid!
Message Edited by Tralmek on 04-28-2004 10:05 AM
Ah, back again--nice short class.
Vermicious:Most players are also human, and one of the many great traits of humanity is that we like to talk about our adventures, we like to brag.Cantinas and entertainers allow for a great outlet in this creative energy--notonly that, some entertainers have been known to write ballads to sing or recite during their performances, wouldn't you like tohave your adventurespun before others? I believe the majority of the community, entertainer or not, is looking for human interaction, if one did not want tointeract with other people, they would go play Knights of the Old Republic or Jedi Academy. (hey, in those games, youget to bea Jedi without having to grind... )
Vermicious_Knid (in response to PoetDancer): "AFK dancer buffbots, or even the newAFK doctor buffbots, add the ability for any player to receive a timely and quick buff at any time. That need will be there long after the holos are gone." Certainly. I noticed that you do not refer to these characters in a respectful way which means you have stripped them of humanity (the first big step in realizing what these buffbots are). If you are indeed interested in having as little human contact as possible (go play KotOR or JA) then perhaps you should request that NPC buffers be available at all med centers and cantinas so instead of paying another avatar for the service, it provides another money sink to help deflate the economy?
You continue to bring up the idea of roleplaying (what a concept roleplaying in a Massively Multiplayer Online ROLEPLAYING Game). Please understand that not all entertainers are RP'ing, and some of the AFK macrotainers are RP'ing. This has nothing to do with our issues. Our cantinas are refuges for all people regardless of whether or not they're RP'ing. It is our job as entertainers to ensure that our customers leave feeling a little better about themselves and life in general. If you don't have fun playing an entertainer then not only are you missing the point of playing a game, but you are also creating a bad name for the entertainment community as a whole.
Ack, already time for another class. I'll return and reply some more ASAP. 8-)
Message Edited by Tralmek on 04-28-2004 10:54 AM
Back again.
PoetDancer: Love ya!
SinnAsyr: "AFK Buffbots screw real entertainers over" Yup!
Vermicious: /sigh Remember when Doctors and Medics used to get paid for wound healing? Probably not, but I do.The doc profession (yes, I am a Master Doctor on Starsider) was also run over by holodocs who would PO the wounded who came to them because they'd be busy AFK healing the Rancor someone set on fire. AFK'ers and holoers destroyed the doctor profession to a great degree, but since the doc services are harder to render while AFK, there is still a demand for live doctors. The music profession on the other hand is all to easy to AFK.
Additionally, most of us who you'll meet on this forum are entertainment professionals. We have these skills not only for our enjoyment, but also to make money. It is our job to make sure the people who come into our cantinas leave happier and less wounded/fatigued (in RL as well as in-game)than when they came in. If we fail this, we aren't doing our jobs. You tell us to use our skills as a business, I tell you, we already do. Unfortunately we do not have the tools to compete with macrotaining buffbots who senselessly give away free buffs. All we can do is hope to attract customers from the non-NPC/AFK cantinas to join us live. The simple fact of the matter is, the macrotainers have trained people to think that music and dance buffs are always readily available and free. If a macrobuffer had shown up in the Coronet Cantina 10 months ago, (s)he would have been ridiculed while everyone else enjoyed the live entertainment and buffs. Nowadays, people ridicule those of us who earned our positions as master entertainers, master dancers, and master musicians. They think we are stupid because we chose to work to get where we are...lack of respect. This is what AFK macrotainers have caused. People no longer respect the entertainment professionals, and if we are not respected, we are not going to be compensated for our services.
More to come after my next class...
Message Edited by Tralmek on 04-28-2004 12:10 PM
Ah, I didn't get the chance to see how close to the end of the replies I was...all I had to do was:
PoetDancer: It is like you say!
/smile Well, now that I've dragged this out over my entire day...I guess I'm off to actually play the game instead of browse the forums. I'm going to see about getting a droid with music modules today.
-Lilo
Message Edited by Tralmek on 04-28-2004 03:07 PM
Also, I do like to interact with other people. I meet people in game all the time. However, I do not like to be forced to go somewhere to interact with people when I'm trying to get out hunting or PVP'ing, and particularly not if I died in progress and wanted to get back.
I call them buffbots because everyone else calls them buffbots. I am actually quite respectful of the service they provide. I know they are played by people. Several of my in-game friends provide this service. I provide this service, just not automated (yet).
As to your suggestion that I go play other games. I play several other games, or at least I did before I got this one. I am blown away by this game and by the people I meet. I just don't care to socialize in cantinas, and judging by the crowds I (dont') see in there, neither do many other people.
I would have no problem with NPC buffers/healers, either. Actually, that would be a good idea if they were confined to the cantina/med center respectively. That way, people could always get healing (just like in "real life"), maybe make it take a bit longer or be a bit less powerful. Players could heal in the player cities or out in the field.
I am not missing the point of playing a game, I'm pointing out that the point of a game is different for many people. I have no problem with your style of play, in fact I couldn't care less how you play.
I do appreciate the back-and-forth though, it's always helpful to hear other people's opinions.
Tralmek wrote:Vermicious:Most players are also human, and one of the many great traits of humanity is that we like to talk about our adventures, we like to brag.Cantinas and entertainers allow for a great outlet in this creative energy--notonly that, some entertainers have been known to write ballads to sing or recite during their performances, wouldn't you like tohave your adventurespun before others? I believe the majority of the community, entertainer or not, is looking for human interaction, if one did not want tointeract with other people, they would go play Knights of the Old Republic or Jedi Academy. (hey, in those games, youget to bea Jedi without having to grind...
Vermicious_Knid (in response to PoetDancer): "AFK dancer buffbots, or even the newAFK doctor buffbots, add the ability for any player to receive a timely and quick buff at any time. That need will be there long after the holos are gone." Certainly. I noticed that you do not refer to these characters in a respectful way which means you have stripped them of humanity (the first big step in realizing what these buffbots are). If you are indeed interested in having as little human contact as possible (go play KotOR or JA) then perhaps you should request that NPC buffers be available at all med centers and cantinas so instead of paying another avatar for the service, it provides another money sink to help deflate the economy?
You continue to bring up the idea of roleplaying (what a concept roleplaying in a Massively Multiplayer Online ROLEPLAYING Game). Please understand that not all entertainers are RP'ing, and some of the AFK macrotainers are RP'ing. This has nothing to do with our issues. Our cantinas are refuges for all people regardless of whether or not they're RP'ing. It is our job as entertainers to ensure that our customers leave feeling a little better about themselves and life in general. If you don't have fun playing an entertainer then not only are you missing the point of playing a game, but you are also creating a bad name for the entertainment community as a whole.Ack, already time for another class.
-Lilo
Message Edited by Tralmek on 04-28-2004 10:54 AM
There was a time when a buff was a nice thing to have but it certainly didn't stop you from playing if you didn't have one. Now people justify these buff bots and feel they can't even play without them. No need to drink down a 10k brandy over the course of a few hours when a buffbot is available thats free.
These buffbots are having devestating effects on our cantinas. Cities and fighting guilds see these things as a draw so they don't really care of their effects on the entertainers proffessions.Each buffbot is drawing aways hundreds of customers a day and that number is growing as more buffbots are put into service.
I suppose SOE is torn because each buffbot is also another account but at the same time, the draw for female players in SOE is also being syphoned away by these buffbots, at least the females into the more social RP aspects of SWG.
Its a double edged sword. As an entertainer I will not go into an establishment that has a buffbot running. At the same time, they would not run a buffbotif they had real entertainers. Of course they would want you to be there 24-7 and since that is impossible, the buffbot isn't going anywhere. So its become a buffbot or go elsewhere.
Iam an entertainer and the city in which I live has a buffbot in one of the city cantinas. It leaves me feeling that I am not even needed in this city, why even bother, they don't deserve me exerting any kind of creative energy, let them go to their stinking bot. These bots will put us out of business, what will be left for us?
Although I didn't like the speedbuff, it at least took a live entertainer and allowed us to compete with the buffs.With it removed I have now noticed less people again in the cantinas, they are being drawn back to the bots as we offer no advantage to peoplelike Vermicious who couldn't care less about us, he just wants his buff so he can go get back to his game. These are the same people who resented us because they accumulated battle fatigue and had to come to us, but now the stakes are much larger.
SOE gave us the ability to buff to enhance our profession, not to create buffbots. As it stands now we are better off if the buffs were removed from the game as it would remove the buffbots and drive people back to the cantinas at least for heals... When entertaining becomes purely an RP venture, it will be the end of our field as no one is going to expend all the skill points needed for a purely RP thing.
Either the buffbots go or it is the end of our profession as we know it. If it is not done soon, it will be too late as more and more buffbots are put into service.
Icoo wrote:
if you dont like afk entertainers in the CORONET cantina... then make your own town with your own cantina or join a town and play yourself to boredom there. talk to everyone that comes in an have a great time. we go to coronet and theed to get 15-20 person groups to get exp. dont like, dont go there.
Prime example of what I've talked about in other threads. AFK'ers complaining that ATK'ers tell them how to play, when the reality is that the AFK'ers are trying to tell the ATK'ers how to play. If we don't like it, go elsewhere. If we don't like having to listen to the big group playing 3 songs at once, turn off our music, turn on our real life radio, don't enjoy the ingame immersion that the devs have worked so hard for us to enjoy. Sorry, but that's just not acceptable. Until the AFK'ers face the cold hard fact of the hypocrisy of their accusations against the ATK'ers, we will get nowhere.
And, to address another point that was brought up about how most players don't like to socialize, I'd have to call you on that one too. Just because you're not seeing 50 million conversations at once in spatial that does not mean they're not happening. Tonight, I buffed 4 people (or groups of people)...4 different sets of buffs. In all four of these instances, I had very interesting and fulfilling conversations either through /tells with my client or through group chat when I was buffing a group. And, maybe I'm completely naive, but I dare say my customers actually enjoyed talking to me and telling me about what they were doing. In one particular instance there was some rebel "bonding" going on. There were contacts being made and plans for a possible future raid against an imperial city. Most of this goes on in private, not on spatial. I think that, just like there is a vocal minority of entertainers who claim that it's all about entertaining and nothing else, that there is an equally vocal minority of posters on this board who claim that people don't like socializing and that everyone and their mother just wants to get out as soon as possible. I would venture to say that there's a whole lot of middle ground here, and a whole lot of people who actually both enjoy the service I provide because I make it entertaining, and enjoy the conversations they have with me while I'm buffing them.
Alright, alright. I've done my best to stay out of the AFK debate for months now. Anyone who knows me in game knows my standpoint on this issue, and that's what matters to me. BUT, there's been some misconceptions floating around this thread, that I'd like to take a moment and clear up...
(1) Musician / Dancer / Entertainer is a boooooooring stupid class!
Do you really want to know what makes our proffesion so dull you? You're not gonna like the answer...it's you, and those like you. Yep. The AFKers make what is, for most people, a very enjoyable profession and make it one of the most painful and grueling proffesions around. I've been playing this game since early August, and pretty much all of that time has been spent as an entertainer, and I've never had so much fun in a game before. But, enter the Zombies. Where at one point, I could go to Coronet and level a little faster, meet new people, enjoy screwing around with the customers, and usually pull in about 50k in tips in an afternoon, now I go there and just pray that I can die. There's nothing there but mindless wastes of server space who say nothing, outside of their repeated spam, do nothing, outside of trying to make the music sound like a train wreck.
You know how I best equate this? AFKers are probably the same people on the interstate who cause traffic jams. You know the ones. There have been signs every 500ft for the last 5 miles that the lane they're in is closed due to construction. But they don't care, it's faster for them to rush ahead in the open lane, and then force their way in at the last second. This causes all the cars behind to slam on their breaks to avoid an accident because of this self-centered **edit**. Now, repeat this same looser about a 100 times, and you get a traffic jam. Then their egotistical friends get upset because they're now stuck in a traffic jam, and have to rush up to the front so they don't have to wait. It's a ridiculous vicious cycle, and as long as AFKers justify it, it'll never end.
I need to go to work, but I'll post more on this later...
nvoigt wrote:
What is honestly so bad about afk macroing? I do it every night and can cap out on boxes up to tier two. There is nothing wrong with it, if you come back every once in a while.
look.
Macro name=entertainme
/startmusic starwars3
/say Please invite me to the entertainer group!
/join
/flourish 1
/pause 2
/flourish 2
/pause 2
/flourish 3
/pause 3
/flourish 4
/macro starwars3
What is wrong with doing that for a few hours, it doesn't hurt anyone, unelss it has an annoying repetative speech in it.
Macro name=hunting
/follow
/equip pistol
/join
/pause 30
/say Invite me to your hunting group pls
/join
/maskscent
/heal self
Whats wrong about this macro ? It's nice right ? My AFK hunting macro. I bet you like it when I follow you for the next three hours spamming you... Don't you think that the /say line alone qualifies your macro as "annoying repetative speech" ? *sigh*
That was the funniest thing I've read in a while. Thank you for that!
For the person that started the thread, please go play a profession you enjoy and leave the entertaining to people (like myself!) who actually enjoy being at their keyboard and entertaining.
*reads the entire thread over very carefully and puts on a pot of coffee*
*... returns several minutes later and has a few gulps of coffee...*
There is so much I want to contribute to this post, but I think that Poet said it all... and various others. I'm not going to repeat what's already been said... but...
There is a simple reason why I loathe reading the forums.... well, alright, I usually get this feeling about 80% of the time...
I have been playing this game from the very start.. no, I wasn't part of Beta, but I did start at release. I know I am relatively unknown to the boards... I'm not a forum junkie and have never been because ... it's a waste of my time to try and justify my feelings to people who are usually very hard-headed when it comes to their own opinions. Unwavering you might say. Most of the people who play SWG want things done *their* way... usually RIGHT then and there. These discussion... heck, I love discussion... but to me all of these subjects are old hat... and thus we get back to the reason why I don't browse the forums other than to pick up on stray gossip from time to time *smiles*
Life is not fair... in the larger scope, not all things are equal.
I love to dance... to play music.. to express myself. I always have and I doubt I will ever change my feelings. I will always be ATK... doing what I love best about this game.
I hope that some day, there will no longer be a necessity for people to grind so much... or be AFK so much. If you're AFK half the time, why not just find something else to do entirely? Questions questions.... but they will always get the same answers, the same attitude, the same sass.
Like I said, I share a lot of opinions already stated in this post, so there is no need for me to sit down and calculate a perfect reply. Strike and counter-strike... but no one will ever fall.
I'll go back to my dancing now
You do what makes you happy.
Rancor_Durni wrote:
What is honestly so bad about afk macroing? I do it every night and can cap out on boxes up to tier two.
i macro all the time, i macrod to master armorsmith in a day. I macro'd to bounty hunter as my first proffession. I macro'd hunting with a group all night.
Hey, it's your party, butI'm curious: is there anything you actually do?
Thewt of Infinity