Musician Archive
Thread: Do you think it's fair to waste 400k xp out of 900k xp, when you could be spending it on FS xp?
MyT_Chicken
Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:11 pm
#27
Tralmek wrote:
MyT_Chicken wrote:
MSword
I just read that and couldn't understand why the heck you were talking about word processors in this thread. Three cheers for sleep depravation!
/cheer
I just realized it could be taken that way. Doh. But my point still remains.
To be a jedi you have to drop skills. And from what I can tell The only complaint is people would rather use XP on Force XFers.....which is not a winning fight.
I totally, 100% agree with this XP+ Reward = Crap....however, saying you would rather spend it on Force XP is....not going to get them to change it.
Warryyr
Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:16 pm
#28
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Having a wookie as a Master Entertainer / Dancer / Musician....I could honestly give a crap less about the village. So if thats your ONLY complaint....why bother?
That's well and good for you. But, you aren't every Entertainer/Dancer/Musician, and your feelings don't account for all Entertainers' attitudes towards the Village.
If your mad about the XP = Reward, I personally think it would be best NOT to use your "I could use my XP for Force XP instead" Because the Devs are just going to laugh at you.
The Devs gave us Force Sensitive xp conversions of 10-1 for our Music or Dance xp. They are not laughing at anyone who is pursuing Force Sensitivity. The reason they put it in was so that we could take part as well. You seem to have a negative viewpoint on how Entertainers fit into this game's community. It's probably the people you hang out with. Try jamming with some dedicated performers. They might raise your spirits a bit.
LeBob
Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:40 pm
#29
I like the xp requirement!
Although, it might be of relevance that I will not be pursuing a Jedi character......... since they do utterly and completely break continuity and all...
/shrug
NewJedi
Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:48 pm
#30
Some Musicians have no objection to this requirement, and a couple have even suggested to me that it's currently too easy to get the song. If there is a strong consensus one way or the other, I'll pass it on to the devs.
Me, I think the requirementmay be a bit steep, but I also think the devs are trying to provide us with the post-Master goals we keep saying we want. For entertainers, it makes sense that post-Master content include XP requirements.Not XPexclusively, but it makes sense to me that XP should be one of a number of post-Master hurdles. I really have no trouble with that concept in principle. Cash could be another hurdle, but that would generate objections too. The devs really can't win. If they don't impose goals, people say they're getting no new content; if they do impose goals, then people say they're making Musicians' lives more dififcult.
My main concern here is that 400K implies that one has to be above Novice Musician. Even on that point, though, I'm not sure I find this objectionable. I've always felt that there should've been a song in the empty box above Novice Musician, and this sort of fits the bill now. Sure, this means you have to blow the horn a bit longer to fill up those Jedi boxes, but what alternate cost would you impose on Musicians for the new song? Cash? No cost at all? The devs aren't likely to buy "no cost at all."
LeBob
Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:49 pm
#31
NewJedi wrote:
Some Musicians have no objection to this requirement, and a couple have even suggested to me that it's currently too easy to get the song. If there is a strong consensus one way or the other, I'll pass it on to the devs.
Me, I think the requirementmay be a bit steep, but I also think the devs are trying to provide us with the post-Master goals we keep saying we want. For entertainers, it makes sense that post-Master content include XP requirements.Not XPexclusively, but it makes sense to me that XP should be one of a number of post-Master hurdles. I really have no trouble with that concept in principle. Cash could be another hurdle, but that would generate objections too. The devs really can't win. If they don't impose goals, people say they're getting no new content; if they do impose goals, then people say they're making Musicians' lives more dififcult.
My main concern here is that 400K implies that one has to be above Novice Musician. Even on that point, though, I'm not sure I find this objectionable. I've always felt that there should've been a song in the empty box above Novice Musician, and this sort of fits the bill now. Sure, this means you have to blow the horn a bit longer to fill up those Jedi boxes, but what alternate cost would you impose on Musicians for the new song? Cash? No cost at all? The devs aren't likely to buy "no cost at all."
/agree 100%
Banthabutcher
Mon Sep 20, 2004 3:59 pm
#32
I think you have to have Musical Knowledge 4 or Musical Techniques 4 to have an XP cap high enough to get 400k XP.
And I'm for expenses like this (read my previous post), but 400k is a little too steep when taking into account the cost of other schematics.
Aleyo
Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:10 pm
#33
NewJedi wrote:Some Musicians have no objection to this requirement, and a couple have even suggested to me that it's currently too easy to get the song. If there is a strong consensus one way or the other, I'll pass it on to the devs.Me, I think the requirement may be a bit steep, but I also think the devs are trying to provide us with the post-Master goals we keep saying we want. For entertainers, it makes sense that post-Master content include XP requirements. Not XP exclusively, but it makes sense to me that XP should be one of a number of post-Master hurdles. I really have no trouble with that concept in principle. Cash could be another hurdle, but that would generate objections too. The devs really can't win. If they don't impose goals, people say they're getting no new content; if they do impose goals, then people say they're making Musicians' lives more dififcult.My main concern here is that 400K implies that one has to be above Novice Musician. Even on that point, though, I'm not sure I find this objectionable. I've always felt that there should've been a song in the empty box above Novice Musician, and this sort of fits the bill now. Sure, this means you have to blow the horn a bit longer to fill up those Jedi boxes, but what alternate cost would you impose on Musicians for the new song? Cash? No cost at all? The devs aren't likely to buy "no cost at all."
Here are my thoughts, NJ, some of which I posted in the Dancer forum when a specific topic about it was brought up.
My general thoughts are: I don't find an xp requirement *too* objectionable out of context. I do think 400k is too high (and I would hope that since it's on TC, this is something they'd be willing to look at changing). Particularly with the cap at Novice being lower than 400k. I'd find the high cap slightly less objectionable if you didn't have to have the 400k all at one time (i.e. you could turn in some of the requirement at one point and finish off the rest later). In context of the FS quests, then it all depends. If xp requirements are to become a general payment method for new content in various parts of the game, then ok, but it's poor timing to give it to entertainers first. Maybe everyone will have to decide where to spend their xp in the future between jedi and content, but they don't have to now, and most won't have to until who knows when, if this is even where they're going. If it's not what's going to generally happen, then I can see where it's easy to pick xp as a payment method for us, but they really should have come up with something else. And they really should realize that we need some conversation if we're to be appeased. You mention post-master content. For one thing, these quests aren't really presented as post-master content, but my concerns with that are already stated about the caps. But in terms of it being presented as content at all, it's not. Gaining xp is what we already do. We don't do anything different to get 400k xp than we've been doing so far. And in fact, since it's not post-master content, but can be done by lower level musicians, it can even be a hindrance toward mastering. Say someone really likes the new song, but also wants to help his friends and get up the tech line so he can help them out in their battles. Now he has to make a choice between a 'selfish' want for the new song and the 'selfless' chioce to help his friends.
Every time I talk to my friends who have more MMORPG experience, the talk is how to make the grind less of a grind, and the solution that comes up so often is to make fun content that helps you on your path to mastering. If instead of taking xp, the quest somehow granted extra xp, then this is something that would make non-master entertainment more appealing to those who are being saddened by grouping in Coronet with all the AFKtainers to get the most xp and reach master quickly. It'd be another path that was actually fun, and bring encouragement and reward. I'd rather they made the quest more involved, like after you get the scroll, you have to impress enough particular people who will then sign your scroll saying 'yes, I state that this person is worthy of this song/dance' and then you get to use it. There could be faction involved, by adding these particular NPCs in the themeparks.. Jabba would be a perfect tie in, with the second path to entering his palace which has been mentioned before for entertainers. It could have different methods of getting enough signatures.. for example, if you do the imperial route, it might be harder to get the emperor to sign, but his would be the only signature you need, or you could go the easier route with impressing colonels, but need 5 of them to sign. Anyways, that's just one particular idea of how to add extra cost to performing the new song/dance, but by adding content rather than stacking on top of what we already do.
BTW, the perspective of someone who would have to choose between the new song and being able to buff friends is very personal, as it's the situation I'm going to be in due to my self-inflicted penance. I'm not happy about the requirement.
Warryyr
Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:20 pm
#34
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
You seem to have a negative viewpoint on how Entertainers fit into this game's community. It's probably the people you hang out with. Try jamming with some dedicated performers. They might raise your spirits a bit.
You don't even know me, so before you open your mouth and say I have a negative viewpoint of entertainers maybe you should think before you speak. I am no buff bot, I'm at the Keys 99% of the time when I do play my entertainer, and I happen to enjoy jamming with other Performers that are not AFK. So don't insult me because you have absolutely no idea what your talking about.
Fair enough. Bad move by me. Let's not get too bent out of shape over it. My apologies for insulting you in anyway.Implying thatyou think the Devs would laugh at us for pursuing Force Sensitivity, and anything that hurts us in that respect, came across to me as pretty negative. Again, my apologies if this upset you so much.
The fact is your Master Whatever will grow into the Jedi you are persueing. You seem to be complaining about the fact it costs 400k XP that you could instead use for Forces XP.
The fact that it costs 400k XP PERIOD is reason enough to want that taken away. It has nothing to do with force XP. No other quest requires XP for the reward....so why start now. Entertainers that complete the quest should get the reward...its that simple. That should be your driving point; NOT "I could use XP for force instead", Because thats not the point.
The point is we (Currently) have to spend XP on a reward. WHY???? No other profession has ever done so, so why now...and why with this quest.
I agree. 100%.
Don't confuse yourself in thinking I have no love for Entertainers, I'm just simply saying your vocal additude needs to be redirected. Your focusing on the wrong thing.I have no intention of starting a flame war, because I support what your saying......just not HOW your saying it.
I'm just trying to get some dialogue going regarding this. Regardless of what I'm focusing on, the underlying point is that the xp requirement (in my opinion) seems unreasonable for many reasons. In my opinion, moreso given how precious profession xp is after the Jedi revamp.
I don't want to start a flame war, either. Sorry if I insuated that I wanted to instigate such a thing. Thanks for your patience with me, and for expressing your opinion on all of this.
Echinacea
Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:31 pm
#35
MyT_Chicken wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
You seem to have a negative viewpoint on how Entertainers fit into this game's community. It's probably the people you hang out with. Try jamming with some dedicated performers. They might raise your spirits a bit.
You don't even know me, so before you open your mouth and say I have a negative viewpoint of entertainers maybe you should think before you speak. I am no buff bot, I'm at the Keys 99% of the time when I do play my entertainer, and I happen to enjoy jamming with other Performers that are not AFK. So don't insult me because you have absolutely no idea what your talking about.
The fact is your Master Whatever will grow into the Jedi you are persueing. You seem to be complaining about the fact it costs 400k XP that you could instead use for Forces XP.
The fact that it costs 400k XP PERIOD is reason enough to want that taken away. It has nothing to do with force XP. No other quest requires XP for the reward....so why start now. Entertainers that complete the quest should get the reward...its that simple. That should be your driving point; NOT "I could use XP for force instead", Because thats not the point.
The point is we (Currently) have to spend XP on a reward. WHY???? No other profession has ever done so, so why now...and why with this quest.
Don't confuse yourself in thinking I have no love for Entertainers, I'm just simply saying your vocal additude needs to be redirected. Your focusing on the wrong thing.I have no intention of starting a flame war, because I support what your saying......just not HOW your saying it.
Warryyr, like me, has gotten bitter. That's what happens when hope, faith and expectations are left to rot in the dirt.GG Keldarin. As both the Entertainer and FS dev (reportedly), I can't see any other door at whichto lay that.
I don't play my Master Musician like most Entertainers. I flat out can't stand playing in a public cantina for hours, every day, not being able to move or do anything else, waiting for other players to have the decency and honor to share their gains with me because I provide a service for them when they can receive the same service from an NPC emulator. Human nature being what it is (and to the best of my knowledge, we're all human players behind our various human and alien characters), that's not going to work out to my advantage. I tried being a pure Entertainer; I lasted about 3 weeks.
The developer who added the entertainment healing skills very obviously put about 30 seconds of thought into what we gain, as performers, into the Force Sensitive line. And that only after much tantrum-throwing on our part. But dammit...it's there. I want to pursue it...because it's there. That's why I bother. That's how I want to play. If you don't "give a crap less" about Force Sensitivity...yippee. I do. And since you don't, you ass-u-me I want it for reasons that are inaccurate. I don't want to be a Jedi. Not with Tarot, anyway. As others have pointed out, I have a reputation as a performer (scant though mine may be, since I don't frequent the Cantinas much anymore). I do want to pursue the Force Sensitive path, most pointedly so I can unlock a second character on the server I've called home for over a year now and do the things I can't do as an Entertainer gimp with my friends on Starsider. I want to do so maintaining as much of my Music as possible. I'm liklier to sacrifice Master Swordsman than I am Master Musician. I can do more of what I want (in PvE anyway) with part of Swordsman than I can with only a part of Musician.
Having the rewards for these quests cut into me spending my post-Master accrued experience on Force Sensitive skills I want is yet another unsurprising slap in the face from people who have less than no clue about how to do something with this really interesting, uniqueset of professions that were included in the game and have consistently been left out of the game since about 90 minutes after the idea was first conceived. On top of the insult of telling us, in effect, that we have to work double-time to get both Force Sensitivity and quest rewards once we've completed the quest missions, there is also the astounding (but still unsurprising) lack of mathematical ability on the part of the developers to realize that even when characters are able to complete the mission, it is simply impossible for them to acheive the rewards given for having done so due to experience caps.
So I disagree that "I could use XP for force instead" isn't the point. It's not the only point, but yes...there are those for whom it is a point. While I wouldn't say that you have a negative viewpoint...you do appear to have a single-faceted one, intentionally or not.
But then, apparently I'm a freak among weirdos.
LeBob
Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:32 pm
#36
I have been bitter for months now.... I am not losing my temper though.
JohnMarble
Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:19 pm
#37
Well, I've cancelled my account over this.
I think it's sick. They introduce this stupid village, with godawful, mind numbingly redundantquests.
Then they slip in our quests, and add, AT THE LAST MINUTE, O yeah, you need to invest your exp points here too! RIGHT after I invested my experience in their junk skilltrees. Bite me, all I gotta say. BITE ME.
As far as I see it, these stupid quests encourage people to become buffbots, that's why I quit. I think they believe we ALL ARE buffbots, stupid devs. Nothing else makes sense. The professions are at an all time low with buffbots in every cantina, and they add this crap. They need to remove the recursive macros. Then it hit me. They never will! Not because it's impossible, which it is, but because we want that.
So it'll never happen.
I'm just not enough of a masochist for this crap anymore.
*tips hat*
SpaceCrazy
Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:56 pm
#38
MyT_Chicken wrote:
The fact is your Master Whatever will grow into the Jedi you are persueing.
Why is it that most people assume that just because someone is doing the Village quests that a person wants a Jedi? Not everyone going the FS route wants a Jedi. Not everyone going the FS route wants their MAIN to be a Jedi. My Master Musician will NEVER be a Jedi. I am doing the FS quests to get a 2nd character and maybe a few FS bonuses. I may not even have my 2nd char, whenever I get it, be a Jedi.
The fact remains that if the xp requirement stays, the Devs are telling us we have to wait longer to open up that 2nd slot and/or become a Jedi. To get 1 single piece of new content in a profession that hasn't gotten ANY new content since Day 1. They want to make us give up our xp for the reward? Fine, make the reward worth it - 2 or 3 new dances/songs/instruments.
Message Edited by SpaceCrazy on 09-20-2004 11:57 PM
Bronski113
Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:54 pm
#39
I have the 400k xp for the new song right now. I am going to spend it on the new song when it comes out. I have no problem doing that. Personally I am glad they have set a cost for the new content. It will actually make getting it worth it. Something given has no value.
Basically, post your opinion and move on. It doesn't help by dwelling on it. It just gives more for the devs to sift through. Just give your opinion and deal with what is going on. I know it sucks but thinking about 24/7 is only going to make you pissed off and then you'll quit the game.