Musician Archive
Thread: Dark times and A New Hope (The Jukebox)
Mariki
Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:57 pm
#27
After considerably more thought on this...
I said in my last post where is the hope. Thats the note I left on and headed out for work this morning.
I'm driving along and thinking about this and it dawns on me that this jukebox is just some canned music,
This thing isn't any more competition to live entertainers then the TV set or CD player in your room.
No one is going to go and spend the evening in a cantina to look and listen to a jukebox.
I guess what trips my trigger more then anything is the fact that they actually spent time creating this thing instead ofcreating something forreal entertainers. Oh well, I don't even have the game music turned on so this thing doesn't effect me in the least.
Perhaps this thing may have been useful if it was a module we could create and have built into a droid to play between sets...
NewJedi
Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:26 pm
#28
I'm basically with Warryyr on this one. Yeah, maybe these jukeboxes won't hurt us musicians much. But confound it, why pour dev time -- and music -- into canned boxes instead of live musicians? For months and months and months, we've been asking for new songs. Instead, they gave music to a machine. 
Panthu
Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:50 pm
#29
NewJedi wrote:
I'm basically with Warryyr on this one. Yeah, maybe these jukeboxes won't hurt us musicians much. But confound it, why pour dev time -- and music -- into canned boxes instead of live musicians? For months and months and months, we've been asking for new songs. Instead, they gave music to a machine.
Hey big guy, you need to PM GarVa, I think you got messed up in the great Corr/Glowie seperation... that was done to keep Glowies from some talks... where Corrs were needing to talk... including the Musician Corr... *cough* /whisper I don't like this thing either, but it looks like stuff is coming for Musicians.
Shaizann
Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:42 pm
#30
I'm tired...very tired...tired of being told to hang in there. Corr-Folk, I very much appreciate what you have done/are doing, and please make no mistake about my supporing your efforts.
However, what a bloody lukewarm answer Scipionus got. "We hear you but we're going to put a terminal in anyway...we may change it some time". It's the internet equivilent of urinating on me and telling me it's raining. I'm an adult and I know what such a non-commital politically concieved statement means...nothing. Just as Javier has pointed out, they've said this exact same thing before. They have not followed up on such claims.
My RL has been extraordinarily busy of late so I have had little time to play. However, if the Devs can't even take the time to think about what effect such an implimentation as the jukebox could do to us, then my faith that they have anything in mind that might help is limited. I think it may also be a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing on the Dev team.
Tyrant's comment about not being able to find a band ring to the very heart of catering to a powergame style of play. It's the same reasoning bot-lovers have been giving us for ages now..."I can't find an entertainer twenty-four hours a day, so a bot is necessary". Now you don't even have to ask a Musician for music in any capacity.
Warryr, you're right, this is not the end of the world. It certainly is a step toward DEFCON 1, though. If the devs genuinely cared about us they would have at least pulled the jukebox back til they could make us a part of it's process at the very least. Even less than that, they could have given Scipionus a more honest answer to post instead of a lukewarm paragraph of marketing doublespeak. However, the put it in as is, just like the broken dances, etc.
*sigh* I may need a fouum reading break...I really should be working right now anyway, and this just hacked me off instead of relaxed me.
However, what a bloody lukewarm answer Scipionus got. "We hear you but we're going to put a terminal in anyway...we may change it some time". It's the internet equivilent of urinating on me and telling me it's raining. I'm an adult and I know what such a non-commital politically concieved statement means...nothing. Just as Javier has pointed out, they've said this exact same thing before. They have not followed up on such claims.
My RL has been extraordinarily busy of late so I have had little time to play. However, if the Devs can't even take the time to think about what effect such an implimentation as the jukebox could do to us, then my faith that they have anything in mind that might help is limited. I think it may also be a case of the right hand not knowing what the left is doing on the Dev team.
Tyrant's comment about not being able to find a band ring to the very heart of catering to a powergame style of play. It's the same reasoning bot-lovers have been giving us for ages now..."I can't find an entertainer twenty-four hours a day, so a bot is necessary". Now you don't even have to ask a Musician for music in any capacity.
Warryr, you're right, this is not the end of the world. It certainly is a step toward DEFCON 1, though. If the devs genuinely cared about us they would have at least pulled the jukebox back til they could make us a part of it's process at the very least. Even less than that, they could have given Scipionus a more honest answer to post instead of a lukewarm paragraph of marketing doublespeak. However, the put it in as is, just like the broken dances, etc.
*sigh* I may need a fouum reading break...I really should be working right now anyway, and this just hacked me off instead of relaxed me.
Warryyr
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:32 am
#31
psikobunny wrote:
Warryyr I applaud your words in this thread, and the attitude you've taken.
We've disagreed somewhat vehemently before, but the bulk of my issues stemmed from when you did post before reflection, and when you did get snide about Devs. I am very glad to see you take a definite pause, think, then post, for this. I want you to know I am proud of you. It may not count for much, but I am. You're words here are a truer reflection of how I feel than any I can type at the moment. Because the anger and despair is still too strong.
I'm off topic but I wanted you to know how proud I was of these posts, let his words speak for how I feel, until I can find some of my own.
/bow
Thanks for the kind words.
Nobody sees eye-to-eye all the time. I've actually enjoyed our arguments quite a bit, heh. I know I get all worked up over things, and very often just need to chill the **edit** out.
Today's a not-so-good day. Hopefully tomorrow will be better...
Warryyr
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:33 am
#32
Ok, I think this is the sentence, for real this time:
"This Publish has shaken a lot of Musicians to their core, more than I think the Devs have admitted to themselves."
LeBob
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:37 am
#33
FWIW, Aleyo just got a quoteable approved, and it is posted at the following location:
Aleyo
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:43 am
#34
Warryyr, those are some very mature thoughts, and a great outlook on life. 
Granted, I'm wondering what happened to bring you to this zen-like state, instead of tearing people's arms out, but I ain't complaining
.
Anyways, I got my message with a little more info approved by the devs and have posted it in the Feedback thread. We may not win all our battles, but you can sure as hell believe that I'm going to be fighting as hard as I can for us back there. And if the tide turns, I'll be so happy to share the good times with all of you.
/sap off
Granted, I'm wondering what happened to bring you to this zen-like state, instead of tearing people's arms out, but I ain't complaining
.Anyways, I got my message with a little more info approved by the devs and have posted it in the Feedback thread. We may not win all our battles, but you can sure as hell believe that I'm going to be fighting as hard as I can for us back there. And if the tide turns, I'll be so happy to share the good times with all of you.
/sap off
LeBob
Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:46 am
#35
Warryyr wrote:
Ok, I think this is the sentence, for real this time:
"This Publish has shaken a lot of Musicians to their core, more than I think the Devs have admitted to themselves."
The devs have been informed thouroughly of the extent to which we thought the community would be "shaken".
As we can see with other aspects of this publish and previous publishes, sometimes the schedule has a will of its own... however this is not the sentence I was thinking of. 
Also, the devs are still open to thoughts on this issue as Aleyo explains very well in his quote in the other thread... this is very important, I think.
MusicalDina
Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:44 am
#36
Here is a couple guesses (very cynical so beware)
1. The jukebox is going to replace all musicians. CONGRATULATIONS! you now have more skillpoints to put into combat professions!
2. Sometime next week a Dev will actually *gasp* post in our forum and this is what they will say:
"Hello musicians! We devs do realize you have long awaited more content. We have now finally put you on that list of professions to get revamped. Please feel free to come back in 2008 when we finally get around to it!"
or maybe:
"Hello Musicians! We will finally be posting an answer to your 5 questions back in july. Also i would like to point out that great things are coming to SWG (none of it will be musician content). We invite you to stick with us for the next few years until we finally get around to your worthless profession."
I can think of very many more things that would be 'good news' from the devs perspective, that doesnt mean good news to us.
As you can tell I am very cynical. I, too, tire of the wait just a little bit longer for musician love. it wont happen. Anything they give us will be a side effect of giving another profession something.
IMO the BEST thing we could ever get from a dev at this time is a dev vision on what they currently see our profession doing/being. Not just a canned response like 'i think being a cool new playstyle is intriguing and fun, and we would like to develop that more.' A three page vision, in where they would like us to be, what tools they would like us to have, and our interdependecy on other classes. Right now we have absolutely NO idea what the devs think of our profession, and based on the complete silence from devs on entertainers in general, and lack of solution to the profession ruining buffbots, we tend to get the idea the devs dont care about us.
Aleyo, I know it most likely isnt possible to get that for us. but for me I need something like that. i need to know whether to stick around or not, i need to be able to envision what my life in SWG will be like, and right now I dontsee it as a musician. I actually can see the devs getting rid of our professions.
What other profession could say that if all the at the keyboard players went away for a month nobody would notice except friends? i can say two. Dancer and Musician. We have buffbots to replace our functionality and now the jukebox to replace our social gathering purposes.
Esharra
Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:28 am
#37
MusicalDina wrote:
IMO the BEST thing we could ever get from a dev at this time is a dev vision on what they currently see our profession doing/being.
IMO we have been needing this since day one. Howthey can possibly work without design docs is beyond inconceivable to me. However, this seems to be what we've been told or has been implied in the past. How anyone could expect us to contribute cooperatively in a participatory design environment without specifications regarding the dev's expectations..well, it's just impossible! They want our feedback, ideas and vision of how we would like to play our professions? They Must give us guidelines..a framework within which we can define Our vision. Without such a framework..without knowledge of what they will find acceptable..we are only wasting time submitting one idea after another.We have been groping around in the dark for far too long.
Warryyr
Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:30 am
#38
My money's on the ability for Musicians to /setgodmode active.
Just a hunch.
Esharra
Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:41 am
#39
fixed it for ya
Warryyr wrote:
My money's on the ability for Musicians to /setgoddessmode active.
Just a hunch.