Musician Archive

Thread: We're getting Inspiration Buffs

Jeren_Sehn
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:01 pm
#27
So would Musician and Dancer inspiration buffs at least stack? Or will Musicians and Dancers be competing for attention? I didn't see it answered so I'm sure no one knows, but it's something to think about.




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DarkY0da
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:49 pm
#28
Sure it will stack... in that you'll get 10% for 3 hours max... So if you go in and you only have 2 hours left on your buff from a musician you can then get a dancer to buff you for the other hour...



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Warryyr
Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:12 am
#29




Gknee wrote:

You're right..I mis read that...but it doesn't mean they won't still come for that. Yes...there is LOTS of things that need to be worked out...


*sigh*


I'm just going to go back to lurking and shaking my head at the negativity of this board.




It's not really negativity. It's just that our #1 concern has been AFK for quite a long time.


Of course there will be staunch opposition to any changes to our professions which seems to make AFK buffing easier.


They've simplified the AFK buffbot basically, if they make the buff process totally passive.


The buffs are a good concept (how useful they are has yet to be seen), however people raising opposition to making buffbotting easier isn't negativity. It's wanting to save our professions from further destruction.


I maintain that if the buff system is changed to being completely passive, AND allowing the same benefits provided through a Novice Entertainer, you will see a sea of AFK zombies in cantinas and our professions will wither further. It's not the most pleasant of things to think about, but this seems to be what the Devs are proposing.


We've seen time and time again how Combat people hate, despise, LOATHE "all the time it takes to get a buff" and what a horrible, tragic, nightmarish effort it is for them to get to a cantina and talk to someone.


I guarantee you if a 100% passive process goes Live, with Novice Entertainers providing the same buffs as Masters (though slower), you will see no less than an ARMY of Novice Entertainers filling every conceivable cantina with AFK buffbots. And it'll be just oh-so-amazing how much combat people CAN tolerate "all the time it takes to get a buff" when it's absolutely free and easy to get from a player NPC.


Also, in regards to any crafting bonuses, a Novice Entertainer wouldprobably provide morethan adequate duration for crafting bonuses. Few folks craft for hours straight, more than likely the crafting bonus would be used for higher end stuff to make it that much better, and thus a simple visit to the local player NPC Novice Entertainer would be more than enough to crank out that DE-10 or the Krayt T21.


I seriously hope they make this process an active, interactive exchange to some degree. If they don't, this is a SERIOUS flaw in their design. It makes macro'ing Entertainers easier, and that seems totally unhealthy for this game.


Bronski113
Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:23 am
#30
I completely agree with Warryyr.

As things stand I can see myself canceling my second account and taking my entertainer character and changing him back into a smuggler/pistoleer.

My future playing this game has become very clouded now. Hopefully it clears near the end of the beta. I hope the devs listen.

Right now I am hoping to get into the beta (when it goes into beta) for a mmorpg called Fallen Earth. If that game is all I hope its going to be I can see myself leaving SWG behind if I still feel the same way as I do now.



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Staveeno
Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:42 am
#31
if these buffs increase XP nicely and give a nice bonus to crafting, as in better chance of amazing success then entertainers will be in high demand, but I don't see how PVP/PVE people will need them any more. which was the only business for entertainers before.




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StarWorker
Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:09 am
#32


here is a copy of what I just posted in the In concept thread:





To chime in on this proposed change:


I like the idea of inspiration buffs. They should become more diverse though to also cater for those that do not need more xp, or faction points. It would be nice if different types of inspirations could be tied to different songs/dances, as this would open up for more requests. These three suggested inspirations could form the core of the inspirations, that all will get, but additional buffs/modifiers could be tied to each song and dance.


This will create an incentive to master dancer and musician, as they can now offer more services.


It is very important that this cannot be afk-macroed, so I share the suggestions that there needs to be an activation mechanism, started by the patron, and answered by the entertainer. I also share the view that the strength of the buff at novice entertainer should be less than the strenght of the buff at novice musician/dancer/master entertainer.


I have not completely thought through all the consequences of my proposal, and there might be difficulties in implementing it. But I guess my fellowmusicians and dancers will spot those right away.






I have not thought much about what type of modifiers that would be natural to include at each song, but the most highly sought after by elite professions should be at master level. Novice entertainers should give modifers that is primarily useful to novice professions, but maybe at less strength. Any thoughts?


By all means, I think we should accept the current proposal, although we should try to get it implemented in a way that will reduce the buffbot problem. The system I am proposing is a way to expand this inspiration idea.





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lobber
Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:14 am
#33

While I like the idea of inspiration buffs, as long as AFK playing is in the game then this idea will just make the existing situation worse. You will find all the current bots will drop to Novice Ent, take up master Doc, and some combat skills. You now have a good all round buffing character.


They need to remove the ability to AFK, or make sure the existing /setp works but cannot be macroed and also to enforce /setp in group as well so no passive buffs there.


I think giving novice entertainer the ability to buff is good, however, this really needs to be scaled in such a way that a Master buff is far superior. Otherwise what is the point in my spending all these skill points to be a master musician and master ent? The instruments and songs? Those are hardly good reasons.


The worse thing of all.........as more people take up novice ent just to buff their friends, become a buff bot etc, no matter where you go.....no matter who you listen to.....all you will hear is SW1. God the thought of every cantina, every ent you listen to playing that song. I think my ears hurt already. Especially as most put no thought in to the flow of the flourishes or the timings etc. SW1 can actually sound good when played well, but most will just do Flo 1 to 8 repeatedly.


Here is a copy of the post and my suggestion for a solution:



Here are some of my suggestions for making it better:


1. Remove group passive buffing. (Wait for it! Read on to see why!)

2. Keep the /setp command, but no longer make it macroable.

3. When a player comes in to the cantina and asks for a buff, the entertainer targets the player and types/setp.

4. This then adds the player to a separate 'buff group' for that musician.There should be no limit to the number of people the entertainer can add to this 'buff group'. The buff group is basically like a private chat channel that only the entertainer can add people to. It could display a separate little window listing all the people currently in this buff group.

5. Once the buff is complete to the maximum time, the players name turns green in the window, and the entertainer informs the player it has complete, and clicks 'remove' to remove them from the buff group.


The 'Buff group' should be a separate 'virtual' group to the normal entertainer band groups. This allows individuals in the entertainer group to buff whole groups of people, without leaving the band group and the ability to play with lots of instruments, and therfore sound better.


The /setp command allows the entertainer to agree a fee before issuing it to the player if necessary. Perhaps the /setp command could be modifed to allow the entertainer to issue a /setp 5000 which would prompt the player 'A charge of 5000 credits is required for this buff. Do you agree?'. The player could then accept and the money is transferred to the entertainer, and the player added to the buff group. The amount could be an optional parameter which could be set andremembered so that all future /setp issued will have a charge of 5000cr.


It also prevents AFK play as it requires the entertainer to issue a non-macroable /setp command to invite them to the buff group. The higher the entertainer, the longer the buff should last. I have no qualms with a novice ent buffing for 30 mins, but a master should give a far superior buff of say 3hrs.


Overall, a system such as this would be far more preferable to the entertainers as it encourages our profession while giving us the means to keep earning credits.


Message Edited by lobber on 04-05-2005 11:09 AM



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psikobunny
Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:03 am
#34
There's my .02 on the Inspiration idea. I still prefer a /setp too I think. Something needs to kill the bots.


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_concept&message.id=25213#M25213



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Raees
Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:08 am
#35

I like it!! I think it means more people will come for a buff (even crafters)and that the grumpy, non-social, already at their master template wont need to visit their nightmare cantina. Since there always will be the FS grind there will always be people who want a xp boost. Most in my guild think it's even better than before.



* The /setperform only works on one person, make it work on several so they all can buff at the same time without a group needed. Now that it doesn't matter if you're a dancer or a musician and dont have to do both I can just keep on dancing and buff people as they come along. There should/has to be something needed for the entertainer to chose what people to buff. As a rebell I might not want to buff a whole impclan so they can go and faction harvest on our bases, and I might to do this without doing a /deny of services. Also this makes it a lot easier to get payed for our work since people actualy has to ask us and not sneak in and out without even talking to us.

* There should be a bigger gap between a novice entertainer buff and a master dancer/musician. The masters have after all worked for their master title and it should give them something more than just a few more moves or songs. I agree that it's good that novice entertainers can help out to and get payed but to some extent.

Also I want to add that removing the recursive macro wont help a bit, but adding some sort of feature like the ID window will mean you have to be atk to buff people.
I do not want to sit and push flourishes all day long, I did that the first week as a entertainer and it made me lose focus on the one thing I want to do; talk to people. This would make the cantina music a lot less fun to listen to since most entertainers would only loop the song without any flourishes and the poor newbies would have to sit and push flourishes until their fingers fall off and they would have no time at all to converse with others since they would want to get xp.



Also I'd like to ask you guys what you think of the fact that we no longer have to beboth Musician and Dancer to give a complete buff ?

Message Edited by Raees on 04-05-2005 05:10 AM

psikobunny
Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:43 am
#36




Raees wrote:

Also I'd like to ask you guys what you think of the fact that we no longer have to beboth Musician and Dancer to give a complete buff ?




I want the differences between the two to be more than cosmetic




Gilack Mehoipou [Bloodfin]


Quintuple Master- Marksman/Squad Leader/Rifleman/Vortex Pilot/Politician


Made it before all hell broke loose.



RSQViper
Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:26 am
#37

Ok, I really like the idea of what the buffs can do to a point.


First, once you hit master or finish your template the XP bonuses mean nothing so they will be avoided. Even with the Faction bonuses and crafting success. I'd like to see a nice bonus for faction. At least 30%. It will encourage masters to use entertainers.


Another problem I have, actually the huge problem I have, is the fact this is going to be done passively.


I can't tell you how much of a slap in the face this is. Entertainers are underpaid as it is and now buffs, useful buffs, are going to be something people can "steal" just like they already can BF.


I would like to see a small user interface that acts like the ID window. A customer would come in and ask for a buff and the entertainer would initiate the window. In it, would be the length their buff will last per minute (basically the skill of the entertainer) as well as a place for a tip and accept/cancel buttons for each side.


This window doesn't even have to be open the whole time, just be how inspire is initiated.


Also, make the default button NO, not yes. **MAKE THIS AN ATK ABILITY ONLY**


Third problem: Novice Entertainer can apply these buffs? This is not acceptable. Not acceptable by a long shot I don't care if it does last less time. It only encourages people to drop their master entertainers, dancers, musicians and become buff bots. Can we please not have this happen?


Do not allow Regular Entertainers to buff at all. Only allow them to buff at Master Entertainer and at that point they should be able to inspire as well as a Novice Dancer or Musician. No less than Master Entertainer. Any less and then that is allbuff botswill be and they would be ineven greater numbers than they are now.


Entertainers should aspire to inspire. Their goal should to become a good enough of an entertainer to be able to inspire people. That means working up to a high level of entertainer and earning, yes earning, the right and ability to inspire.


Forth problem: Musician and Dancers buff the same stats? What differentiates the two professions now? They each heal BF and buff the same.


If anything, split the abilities like it is now. And for Master Entertainer's inspiration give them Novice Dancer and Novice Musician abilities for inspiration. So, basically they can do both, just not well. At least not unless they are also a Dancer or Musician.


Aleyo don't let this slide through the cracks and don't accept the dev's proposal. It is an incomplete and not well-thought out idea. But it has promise!



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NeillM
Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:24 am
#38
I have thought about this for a while now.


I like the idea of the buff. It sounds useful, it sounds like people will want it. I know I would


I am concerned that there may not be enough benefit to being a Maser Musician (other than for the greater variaty of songs/instruments), however I doubt I will be dropping MM because of this, I kind of like what some people have been describing as the "fluff", the healing and buffing make me feel useful.


I am indifferent about the buffs being entirley passive. It is not as though I get a lot of requests for buffs as it is, but when I do under the current system with the "need to spam" flos to do the buff quickly I find that it distracts me from Entertaining (I do not use macro's to flo so I end up doing lots of button pushing), stopping this would allow me to continue focusing on my performace/entertaining customers. If we do go for a system the requires us to activly do something I do not want a popup window, while this seems like a good idea at first I think that the downside would be huge (imagine if you are in Coronet or Theed and you have to click yes or no every 10 seconds! *shudders*), should such a system happen and there was an auto refusal option I could see myself resorting to it quickly.If we haveactive buffing system I would much prefer a /setperform type system.


I don't think that the buffs being completley passive would necesarily loose me much in the way of tips, since I getvery fewrequests as it is.


I also hope that during the Entertainer revamp that Musicians and Dancers would be given some additional buffing capabilities that allow us to have a more distinct role from each other, thisis a discussion for another day however.



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Cendatinea
Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:44 am
#39
I have posted my opinions on the Entertainer Changes, the Inspiration Buffs, and all that is Entertainer in Relation to the CURB in the In Concept thread and then resposted it in the Inspiration Buffs thread on the Kettemoor forum.



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