Musician Archive
Thread: We're getting Inspiration Buffs
MMKia
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:14 pm
#14
Gknee wrote:
Havoc420 wrote:Aleyo...you, our "correspondent" better fight with us against this. Because it doesnt seem like you are since they have it in concept. I was under the impression the "correspondents" spoke with the team about proposed changes?? I will fight against this as I'm sure others will.I posted about this in the thread by the way, I'm on Page 5.Fight Against this??????? OMG...don't you realize that EVERYONE...not just combatants will want to watch Entertainers now?? This is a GREAT start on getting us needed by EVERYONE. I really hope that out of this concept that more comes for us and I truely hope that it isn't fought against! This is a good thing..a step in the right direction. Yes..it being completely passive and there not being any real advantage to spend the SP for master is concerning me...but I know that every crafter will be spending some times in the cantinas (And I'm hoping camps will allow this too) for that extra little "Umph" to their experimentation.
What youre missing is that this is how entertainers actually make money. With it being transparent all someone has to do is listen/watch and the ent has no clue that they are providing this service. hence no way to charge anyone or be fairly compensated for their time. Ive been a musician since launch, and the 3rd master on my server. i think its finally time to pack up my nala and move on.
Landlubber
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:26 pm
#15
Staveeno wrote:
if these buffs increase XP nicely and give a nice bonus to crafting, as in better chance of amazing success then entertainers will be in high demand, but I don't see how PVP/PVE people will need them any more. which was the only business for entertainers before.
I just don't see where people get that "entertainers will be in high demand"idea from. You do realize that with the buffs being passive, ONE buffbot can service the entire galaxy, yes?
And apart from that, Iwill notprovide a service if it's not in my power to refuse that service to anybody. Call it a matter of principle. So for all my Master characters, the days of playing in public cantina might be at an end now.
Thanks a bunch SOE Devs, youclueless dimwits.
Gorai
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:34 pm
#16
Landlubber wrote:
Staveeno wrote:
if these buffs increase XP nicely and give a nice bonus to crafting, as in better chance of amazing success then entertainers will be in high demand, but I don't see how PVP/PVE people will need them any more. which was the only business for entertainers before.
I just don't see where people get that "entertainers will be in high demand"idea from. You do realize that with the buffs being passive, ONE buffbot can service the entire galaxy, yes?
And apart from that, Iwill notprovide a service if it's not in my power to refuse that service to anybody. Call it a matter of principle. So for all my Master characters, the days of playing in public cantina might be at an end now.
Thanks a bunch SOE Devs, youclueless dimwits.
QFE, couldn't say it better myself... oh wait yes I can. but then i will get banned 
Aleyo
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:49 pm
#17
From feedback I've seen so far in the In-Concept thread, this thread, and threads on Dancer, most people like the idea of these buffs, but not the proposed implementation.
Please remember that no one (red name or not) likes just being yelled at, and that devs can do a lot more with constructive criticism than just being yelled at. When posting feedback in the In-Concept thread, remember to post specifically what parts of the proposal you don't like, why you don't like them, and if possible, a suggested solution to that specific problem. It's also very important to say what you *do* like, and (most often overlooked) why you like it. The more info about why you do or don't like specific things, the more knowledgeable the devs can be about what works for us and what doesn't.
And no, we correspondents are not always shown everything that gets proposed publicly (sometimes not at all, sometimes not in the form they go public). We're definitely going to be passing the feedback we get on this to the devs and letting them know how you feel. (And I can say for myself that how I feel specifically about an issue does not affect what kind of feedback I give the devs; I take my job seriously to present what *you* all have to say. I'm fairly confident I can say the same for our other corrs as well).
Please remember that no one (red name or not) likes just being yelled at, and that devs can do a lot more with constructive criticism than just being yelled at. When posting feedback in the In-Concept thread, remember to post specifically what parts of the proposal you don't like, why you don't like them, and if possible, a suggested solution to that specific problem. It's also very important to say what you *do* like, and (most often overlooked) why you like it. The more info about why you do or don't like specific things, the more knowledgeable the devs can be about what works for us and what doesn't.
And no, we correspondents are not always shown everything that gets proposed publicly (sometimes not at all, sometimes not in the form they go public). We're definitely going to be passing the feedback we get on this to the devs and letting them know how you feel. (And I can say for myself that how I feel specifically about an issue does not affect what kind of feedback I give the devs; I take my job seriously to present what *you* all have to say. I'm fairly confident I can say the same for our other corrs as well).
Gorai
Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:03 pm
#18
How does an Entertainer give an Inspiration Buff?
Entertainers will give an Inspiration Buff exactly the same way that they current give Mind Buffs. When a player watches or listens to an Entertainer, each successive "Entertainer pulse" will result in adding more time to the buff in progress up to the maximum amount of time just like the current Mind Buff mechanics work.
Now, does this means... we still have to do /setperform or not? little confused on this part....
Gknee
Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:12 pm
#19
In concept means just that..it's in concept..not even in development yet. (Which I hope isn't true 
) So there is time. *sigh* But the devs don't need to hear how this is terrible and it won't work without any reason as to why..and I'm generalizing now because this thread has been fairly good about that.
) So there is time. *sigh* But the devs don't need to hear how this is terrible and it won't work without any reason as to why..and I'm generalizing now because this thread has been fairly good about that. Scip and Esharra , I'm positive know more about other things that are "in concept" that aren't even ready for public comment. And I have to say that a post of mine earlier in the week was negative it's self but I had tovent.( But I have noticed that communication on this forum has improved in the past few days.
In concept..those are the keywords....IMO
Gorai
Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:53 pm
#20
Gknee wrote:
In concept means just that..it's in concept..not even in development yet. (Which I hope isn't true
Scip and Esharra , I'm positive know more about other things that are "in concept" that aren't even ready for public comment. And I have to say that a post of mine earlier in the week was negative it's self but I had tovent.( But I have noticed that communication on this forum has improved in the past few days.
In concept..those are the keywords....IMO
I hope so, I really Do.
DarkY0da
Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:03 pm
#21
Anyways so now EVERYONE knows we don't buff mind. And EVERYONE knows that the Inspiraction Buff will be put in "post" CU at some un-named future point.
And from reading some of Panthu's posts I've come to clearly understand what the Devs intentions are for us. And I need to either except that and then try and make suggestions that are easy for them to do and go along with it. Or it's time to quit the entertainer Professions.
And with that understanding I now give feedback on the future Inspiration Buffs...
It's great. It leaves us exactly how they intended to leave us. Maybe we could get it expanded slightly into other areas of the game... 10% Boost to Rangers group effect for gather meat,bones,hides... 10% Boost to some SL abilities that affect a group ect.(notice they all are group centered...)
Downside, Novice Ent same as Master Dancer/Musician just takes a little longer, AFK grinding Jedi will be very useful to players in outposts, Bots will drop their SP down some and pick up other useful skills for an alt to have and will still be run 24/7.
Iffy
It leaves us very close to where we are currently. The people that say they NEED Mind buffs and are out grinding away... Will now NEED XP buffs to help speed up their grind. It places us once again as a pre-combat use which was part of the huge resentment among players. And doesn't tend to lend its self well to a social enviroment and gameplay. As a Pre-combat requirement they will want all the same traits they love about their bots. Easy to find. Same place 24/7, get in and out quickly so they can get to "their" gameplay.
BIG HUGE UPSIDE:
Which sort of goes against my Iffy thoughts...
But with the changes in the CU to make grouping wanted/needed and to be the focus of playing... They need someplace where it can be easy to find a group. Some place EVERYONE will go before they head out to play..
Yes that's right THE CANTINA!!!!!
The XP buff means that everyone will come to get buffed. And what better place to hang out for a bit and find a group ?
Crafters will show up now... are you looking for a certain Item hang out until you see a crafter come on through and make the connection with them.
If it does this... This is what I have honestly really been missing from our gameplay. And if it does this... it will be great.
And from reading some of Panthu's posts I've come to clearly understand what the Devs intentions are for us. And I need to either except that and then try and make suggestions that are easy for them to do and go along with it. Or it's time to quit the entertainer Professions.
And with that understanding I now give feedback on the future Inspiration Buffs...
It's great. It leaves us exactly how they intended to leave us. Maybe we could get it expanded slightly into other areas of the game... 10% Boost to Rangers group effect for gather meat,bones,hides... 10% Boost to some SL abilities that affect a group ect.(notice they all are group centered...)
Downside, Novice Ent same as Master Dancer/Musician just takes a little longer, AFK grinding Jedi will be very useful to players in outposts, Bots will drop their SP down some and pick up other useful skills for an alt to have and will still be run 24/7.
Iffy
It leaves us very close to where we are currently. The people that say they NEED Mind buffs and are out grinding away... Will now NEED XP buffs to help speed up their grind. It places us once again as a pre-combat use which was part of the huge resentment among players. And doesn't tend to lend its self well to a social enviroment and gameplay. As a Pre-combat requirement they will want all the same traits they love about their bots. Easy to find. Same place 24/7, get in and out quickly so they can get to "their" gameplay.
BIG HUGE UPSIDE:
Which sort of goes against my Iffy thoughts...
But with the changes in the CU to make grouping wanted/needed and to be the focus of playing... They need someplace where it can be easy to find a group. Some place EVERYONE will go before they head out to play..
Yes that's right THE CANTINA!!!!!
The XP buff means that everyone will come to get buffed. And what better place to hang out for a bit and find a group ?
Crafters will show up now... are you looking for a certain Item hang out until you see a crafter come on through and make the connection with them.
If it does this... This is what I have honestly really been missing from our gameplay. And if it does this... it will be great.
Fragpuppie
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:55 pm
#22
Gknee wrote:In concept means just that..it's in concept..not even in development yet. (Which I hope isn't trueScip and Esharra , I'm positive know more about other things that are "in concept" that aren't even ready for public comment. And I have to say that a post of mine earlier in the week was negative it's self but I had tovent.( But I have noticed that communication on this forum has improved in the past few days.)In concept..those are the keywords....IMO
"In Concept" is a great phrase however there was a phrase in the website post that probably tells you more where this is in development.
The planned bonus will be set during the Combat Upgrade Beta but it will probably be around 10%.
That's what Tiggs has said.....that the bonus level will be set DURING THE CU BETA, which is, well, now. She also stated that this is to give us something "post-CU". That sounds to me that the code is as far as the rest of the CU and it'll be up on TC as described "Soon"(tm) with a target that we would have it when the CU goes live.
"In Concept" is great, but I have a feeling that its much farther along.
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Musician/Master Entertainer
Message Edited by Fragpuppie on 04-04-2005 07:01 PM
Jutewr
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:58 pm
#23
Ok, I think these points have been stated by people who have posted before me, but the more people who post, the more likely the devs are to listen, right? (I can dream, can't I?)
It's a wonderful idea, but it needs a few changes:
- Higher level characters should be able to buff for higher bonuses. Why not use the same scale as mind buffs?
- It needs to be active. The person should have to be in a group or have been /setperform'ed by the entertainer.
- I don't know if this is possible (and I don't think it's likely), but what if you had to be ATK to give these buffs? Now I know some bots can perform all night without the AFK tag up, but this would cut down on some of the bots at least.
Message Edited by Jutewr on 04-04-2005 06:59 PM
NJ62
Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:34 pm
#24
(Yeah I know I've said this before, but hey)
1) Buff bots. Same mechanics as before will lead to buff botting. I'm concerned that we will just go from mind buff bots to inspiration buff bots, and this will not do anything to alleviate the #1 concern of the communities.
2) Not enough of a functional benefit to being a master. You can get a full buff from a novice, it just takes longer. Not enough bang for your skill point buck. In general, not enough content to justify the skill point costs.
3) Professional overlap. Dancer and musician will do essentially the same thing with different aesthetics. In other professions, you get some sort of bonus for having two professions, whether it's stacking of abilities or diversity of abilities. This combo has neither because of the duplication of abilities.
4) How will entertainers be able to gain money from this? ID's got a secure interface, but I'm concerned that customers running off and stiffing someone will be no better than before.
5) ID's have had their "essential function" taken away without compensation. What is in the works for them?
6) CU group limits of 8 harm entertainers because it limits patrons for a buff and it limits XP gains.
and to add something that I forgot - active versus passive. Active buffing would take care of both #1 and #4 (you can't "sneak a buff so you have to pay), and also would improve interaction, and give players less of a sense of entitlement to our services.
1) Buff bots. Same mechanics as before will lead to buff botting. I'm concerned that we will just go from mind buff bots to inspiration buff bots, and this will not do anything to alleviate the #1 concern of the communities.
2) Not enough of a functional benefit to being a master. You can get a full buff from a novice, it just takes longer. Not enough bang for your skill point buck. In general, not enough content to justify the skill point costs.
3) Professional overlap. Dancer and musician will do essentially the same thing with different aesthetics. In other professions, you get some sort of bonus for having two professions, whether it's stacking of abilities or diversity of abilities. This combo has neither because of the duplication of abilities.
4) How will entertainers be able to gain money from this? ID's got a secure interface, but I'm concerned that customers running off and stiffing someone will be no better than before.
5) ID's have had their "essential function" taken away without compensation. What is in the works for them?
6) CU group limits of 8 harm entertainers because it limits patrons for a buff and it limits XP gains.
and to add something that I forgot - active versus passive. Active buffing would take care of both #1 and #4 (you can't "sneak a buff so you have to pay), and also would improve interaction, and give players less of a sense of entitlement to our services.
Fragpuppie
Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:39 pm
#25
NJ62 wrote:
(Yeah I know I've said this before, but hey)
3) Professional overlap. Dancer and musician will do essentially the same thing with different aesthetics. In other professions, you get some sort of bonus for having two professions, whether it's stacking of abilities or diversity of abilities. This combo has neither because of the duplication of abilities.
To quote the Tiggs article....
The time it takes to get to this maximum will depend on the entertainer's skill level. A novice entertainer may take a minute to give you a 30 minute inspiration, but the same minute spent with a double master dancer/musician with +25 skill tapes will yield a 3 hour buff in that same minute.
To me, that sounds like overlap. That statements tells me that a DOUBLE master will be better than a single one AND that each set of the skill tapes will also benefit them.
Hrmmmmm. So Double masters with double +25 skill tapes will be the best at this.....
This updateshould have its owntitle
INSPIRIATION BUFFS - Buffbot revamp
I'm sorry, but this looks like a fairly blatant attempt by Sony to keep a BUNCH of Buffbot account subscriptions. If you think about it, it adds up.
- 25 servers
- Average of say 30 buffbot accounts per server (Guild and public cantinas)
- $15 per month
- $11,250 per month
I'd say that pays for a little Dev time, wouldn't you.
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
omadnay
Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:53 pm
#26
There's really no need for me to post this other than I feel the need to post SOMETHING because I have been a musician since launch and I have grown to love the members of this community.
I am speechless.
I am looking for what I want to say, but it doesn't exist.
I'm not even saying that I despise this idea or that I love it.
I guess I am overwhelmed at the moment with all the other changes I have been posting my displeasure with, regarding the CURB.
Right now, my focus is on the new special effects in combat, the armor "certifications" RESTRICTIONS, the new weapon certifications (Robbing me of the very weapon I have been using for nearly the past two years)...
After testing out the new systems, I came to one thought.
"Maybe I won't mind being left out of combat in the new system, because as it is right now in Test... I can't stand it, so I may as well go for a complete non-combat character."
I have always thought that Crafters should have some serious need for Entertainers.
So, that concept is nice to see, finally.
I'm not sure that experienced crafters will find this that useful... I could be wrong though, it very well may be.
To be honest, my first impression was that obviously they need to impliment some sort of transaction UI for these services.
Here's the thing... if they DID AWAY WITH AFK Play... then no UI for buffs would be great.
The problem is, AFK is not only here and hasn't gone away... this new buff would favor them all the more.
Then obviously the fact that any entertainer can apply the same powered buff... that's just odd.
Bottom line... I'm tired of caring.
For now, the fight has left me.
I know there are some great people here that will fight to make things go as well as they can be.
I have no doubt in our corrs and the many members of our community.
I guess I was right... there's no need for me to post right now...
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
I am speechless.
I am looking for what I want to say, but it doesn't exist.
I'm not even saying that I despise this idea or that I love it.
I guess I am overwhelmed at the moment with all the other changes I have been posting my displeasure with, regarding the CURB.
Right now, my focus is on the new special effects in combat, the armor "certifications" RESTRICTIONS, the new weapon certifications (Robbing me of the very weapon I have been using for nearly the past two years)...
After testing out the new systems, I came to one thought.
"Maybe I won't mind being left out of combat in the new system, because as it is right now in Test... I can't stand it, so I may as well go for a complete non-combat character."
I have always thought that Crafters should have some serious need for Entertainers.
So, that concept is nice to see, finally.
I'm not sure that experienced crafters will find this that useful... I could be wrong though, it very well may be.
To be honest, my first impression was that obviously they need to impliment some sort of transaction UI for these services.
Here's the thing... if they DID AWAY WITH AFK Play... then no UI for buffs would be great.
The problem is, AFK is not only here and hasn't gone away... this new buff would favor them all the more.
Then obviously the fact that any entertainer can apply the same powered buff... that's just odd.
Bottom line... I'm tired of caring.
For now, the fight has left me.
I know there are some great people here that will fight to make things go as well as they can be.
I have no doubt in our corrs and the many members of our community.
I guess I was right... there's no need for me to post right now...
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri