Musician Archive
Thread: how to kill a buffbot
Ariven wrote:
Universally it was those entertainers either ignoring me, saying they dropped the profession (while flying title?), saying they didnt know how (come on, -i- figured it out, so can someone who masters the profession) and other nonsenical answers..
Welcome to the world of hologrinding and bugs. You can keep the title even if you drop the profession, and it doesn't go away until you change it. And while I was ATK grinding out the remainder of my healing xp on Dathomir I had to explain to some of the entertainers there how to buff because they just didn't know. They were not dancers or musicians, they were just one step on their way to getting their shiny Jedi character. Also, I don't know how you were asking, but a lot of people in places like Coronet Cantina or the Dathomir Outpost turn off spatial when they're there, or they've just gone AFK without officially going AFK. Perhaps you asked all the wrong people?
Dont get me wrong, if I actually see one advertise I will head to them.. but the LAST time I have seen such advertising from anyone BUT a buffbot is about 2 months ago.
We are not spammers, we are social. If you find a real entertainer who is performing he or she will almost certainly be willing to heal and buff you. I know, though, that I'm not going to be dancing in Coronet Cantina shouting "Willing to buff you, pst!" over and over, because the spam is horrendous already. I'm here to have fun like, hopefully, everyone else is because this is a game. I'm going to try to be the best entertainer I can. But crowded cantinas filled with spam and AFK zombies are not fun. If you want it to be easier to find entertainers, /bug the player cantina registration problem until the devs are knee deep in bug reports about it. Try to persuade the devs that they should make different kinds of advertising available. Try to get the devs to realize that AFK macro-spammers are a huge problem. Don't come complaining that we don't advertise; the only real way for us to advertise currently is spamming, and we don't want to soil our nest with spam.
rebus_ks wrote:
Ariven wrote:
Universally it was those entertainers either ignoring me, saying they dropped the profession (while flying title?), saying they didnt know how (come on, -i- figured it out, so can someone who masters the profession) and other nonsenical answers..
Welcome to the world of hologrinding and bugs. You can keep the title even if you drop the profession, and it doesn't go away until you change it. And while I was ATK grinding out the remainder of my healing xp on Dathomir I had to explain to some of the entertainers there how to buff because they just didn't know. They were not dancers or musicians, they were just one step on their way to getting their shiny Jedi character. Also, I don't know how you were asking, but a lot of people in places like Coronet Cantina or the Dathomir Outpost turn off spatial when they're there, or they've just gone AFK without officially going AFK. Perhaps you asked all the wrong people?
Dont get me wrong, if I actually see one advertise I will head to them.. but the LAST time I have seen such advertising from anyone BUT a buffbot is about 2 months ago.
We are not spammers, we are social. If you find a real entertainer who is performing he or she will almost certainly be willing to heal and buff you. I know, though, that I'm not going to be dancing in Coronet Cantina shouting "Willing to buff you, pst!" over and over, because the spam is horrendous already. I'm here to have fun like, hopefully, everyone else is because this is a game. I'm going to try to be the best entertainer I can. But crowded cantinas filled with spam and AFK zombies are not fun. If you want it to be easier to find entertainers, /bug the player cantina registration problem until the devs are knee deep in bug reports about it. Try to persuade the devs that they should make different kinds of advertising available. Try to get the devs to realize that AFK macro-spammers are a huge problem. Don't come complaining that we don't advertise; the only real way for us to advertise currently is spamming, and we don't want to soil our nest with spam.
I know about the title staying when they drop... but I also know if they drop musician they can't keep playing the musician instruments..
When I actually made a lot of effort to get buffs I tried spatial and /tell I tried offering money publically and not..
I -do- know about the hologrind and it's affect.. and I dread the nerfbat hitting more professions like it did with ID and the timer (to make it longer to master it)... and no I do not expect at the keyboard players to spam out that they are buffing.. but I expect at the keyboard players to interact.. to talk or comment or even /smile or somethign that isn't macroed... I have tried full cantinas, empty cantinas and all the rest.. I wander around the galaxy a lot.. and in fact the last non-buffbot/non GCW related musician buff I have seen done by a non-afk was in the cantina on endor...
it is a sad state of affairs, one I do my part in staving off by trying to use at the keyboard people and tipping for any heals... but I have been -in- those groups.. I have seen the chatter that goes on in group to the total exclusion of spatial... at times it sure seemed like a coffee klatch where everyone had something in common to talk about and had a fun time.. but it also excludes their "customers" from their conversations and emphasizes the feeling that non-entertainers get that everyone is AFK ...
Larmok wrote:
use this macro when you are 'afk' to kill a buffbot... call it 'botkiller'
/invite buffbot;
/pause 1;
/macro botkiller;
the buffbot 90% of the time will join your group and not be able to group with others..
Cheers;
Message Edited by Larmok on 07-09-2004 10:24 AM
Ariven wrote:
I have weighed in on this before, and having a doc avatar I get quite a few "buffing?" requests... I have also mastered entertainer and worked in musician for a while on my main.. so I am not coming into this discussion blindly..
I would look for ATK entertainers for a buff if I felt that there was a reasonable chance for me to get one. I spent several months politely asking every master musician and master dancers that I came across if they were willing to buff.. I was willing to pay 20k a buff, not for both but EACH just to get a mind buff.
Universally it was those entertainers either ignoring me, saying they dropped the profession (while flying title?), saying they didnt know how (come on, -i- figured it out, so can someone who masters the profession) and other nonsenical answers..
The time comes when it is no longer worth my time to seek out a "live" entertainer for a mind buff. Dont get me wrong, if I actually see one advertise I will head to them.. but the LAST time I have seen such advertising from anyone BUT a buffbot is about 2 months ago. and I hit the heaviest cantinas and all the others as I wander the planets.
I can count the number of live master musicians and dancers I have seen in the last month on one hand... or at least live to the rest of us not in their entertainer group...
I go out of my way to tip medics who heal me, I go out of my way to try and find novice or non-mastered entertainers who are AT the keyboard when I need mindwounds and BF healed and I make sure I tip them as well... I -want- to support your community.. I -want- to purchase my buffs from people there.. but what is the point of those wants when I cannot FIND you to do it?
So unless you as a community step up to the plate and be willing to sell this service you are GOING to see these buffbots continue in cantinas... it is pretty sad I know, but it seems to be a fact...
Interesting. I was in Bria.Theed Cantina just yesterday, trying it out after not being there for a while. I myself can't buff yet, but I was dancing with two Master Dancers and two Master Musicians for at least a couple of hours. And they were pretty busy buffing people as well.
Now, this was only in Theed, I'm not sure where you normally hunt. Maybe you should try looking again??
Kreistor wrote:
Interesting. I was in Bria.Theed Cantina just yesterday, trying it out after not being there for a while. I myself can't buff yet, but I was dancing with two Master Dancers and two Master Musicians for at least a couple of hours. And they were pretty busy buffing people as well.
Now, this was only in Theed, I'm not sure where you normally hunt. Maybe you should try looking again??
Why do you think I wrote in past tense? I gave up looking for the most part.. now if I trip over one I will bother... otherwise I take my buffage where I can get it and as fast as I can get it, you see I was "trained" to not bother by all the people who couldn't bother...
But just since you mentioned that they seem to be out in force I will make an extra effort (again) and see what happens..
LadyGrey wrote:
Muria wrote:
The buffbots are killing the social aspect of this game, and if SOE isn't careful and address this I have a feeling they are going to loose more customers. People don't have to role play and they get burned out eventually on the grind. Since they can't seem to find anything else to do when they don't feel like hunting (like visit in a cantina and watch a show) they get bored and quit. I have had many friends now who have complained that there is nothing to do when they are tired of hunting and feel like just visiting....although they can't find someone to talk to in a cantina and so they have left the game. Since buffs didn't used to exist, I think that SOE did have the right idea of what entertainers were for in the begining.
So, on one hand you say that people flock to the AFK musicians and dancers and buffbotters, and yet on the other hand they are killing the social aspect of this game. I find that rather contradictory. What is it that the majority of players (non-entertainers) want? Do they want to interact or not? If they don't really want to interact, then nothing you change about the game will make them interact. If they want to interact, then all you have to do is create your ATK groups of dancers and musicians, and they will search you out.
I don't see what you find contradictory. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. It used to be that people did have to come into the cantina, sit for a moment and get healed. It used to be that people would talk to you, and if you didn't want to talk that was fine but you still got to listen to conversations going on around you and many times you would get sucked into the conversation. A lot even learned information that way. That was where groups would be formed, a lot of friendships were made, and a safer place to just goof off. Crafters would come and sit and craft just to be someplace that was still interesting while they grinded away. Newbies could go to the cantina and get help. Instead, now people go to the buffbots and miss out on this interaction. They don't have to be bothered with social interaction with others. Because they don't have to be bothered with it, it is too easy to not even try. Because they haven't had to try, they don't realize that there is more to the game than just fighting. AFK buffbots are encouraging people to think more about themselves than have to think about others. Sure I can have ATK group of musicians and dancers, but something is wrong when less and less people even step in past the door beyond the buffbot to even see if there is live entertainment. Even the ones that do like and want interaction. For example, the other day when we had a group playing live I was announcing our presence and I had a friend who didn't make it past the buffbot and was getting his buff. When he heardmy announcement he lamented that he didn't know I was there because he would have gotten his buff from me instead. I asked him why didn't you come in and look to see who was here first? He said, because it is justquicker to use the buffbot. After his buff his buff he did come and visit for a few, but my point is that he never looked to see if anyone is there because the bot makes it too easy....and he is one that likes to socialize.
When I get a request to buff someone, they usually do not want to interact and visit. They want a nice quick 3 or 6 minute buff, where they can go AFK and take a break for a few minutes. If they want to interact and visit, they find someone who is ATK in a cantina, and sit down and talk for a while.
Yes, a lot just want a quick buff and asa live entertainer I can tell with a question or two if they just want to be left alone. However, I have had a lot of those people who wanted a quick buff and get out who I have visited with or just put on a good show as I buffed. After the buff for some reason they linger. Ask them why and they say, "I didn't realize that this could be so entertaining," "This was so cool!", "I had fun talking". "Wow! I have never heard this song before." (since buffbots only play virtuoso). etc. It has also been fun when having a group of total strangers in a group as I buff and get them talking about what they are hunting and see them decide to go out and hunt together. There again....they just wanted a quick buff but ended up socializing and had some fun.
It is not inherently evil to do either one of these. It is a type of gameplay no matter what. You are either taking a girl out for a nice dinner and a show, or you slip an envelope with some money in it under the pillow. This is gameplay. There are no established rules. There is no way to force people to do things the "right" way. In other professions, we asked for the devs to come in and "fix" stuff so that the game was more what we imagined it to be. You know what happened? They came in and "fixed" stuff, and ever since we wondered why we ever made a fuss. The musicians asked for changes, and what did they get? A few obnoxious droids, and an obnoxious pause before you can start playing again, and we still can't keep an omni box or nalargon targeted long enough to play it. Go ahead and ask for change. And then you will turn around and complain about the changes. Just like all the rest of us did. But we must each tend our own garden, and follow the same worn path.
It is a type of gameplay, but what I was just trying to point out is that this is a role play game as well. AFK and AFK buffbots tend to take away that. They have turned the entertainment professions into a expected service that most don't even want to pay for anymore. Instead of "please can you buff me?" I get "Buff me".
Iam not trying toforce people to play a certain way. I am just saying what I have observed. I normally don't complain and I just deal with how things are. I never worried about the AFK people because I could just show them up and tips had never been a worry. But yes I am very worried about the Buffbots as more and more of my friends decide to drop entertainment because it is starting to not be fun anymore. When there is no audience, why play? We don't want to just play for ourselves, we want to entertain and get to enjoy the game as well.
Larmok wrote:
use this macro when you are 'afk' to kill a buffbot... call it 'botkiller'
/invite buffbot;
/pause 1;
/macro botkiller;
the buffbot 90% of the time will join your group and not be able to group with others..
Cheers;
Message Edited by Larmok on 07-09-2004 10:24 AM
LadyGrey wrote:
It is a type of gameplay no matter what.
Ariven wrote:
So unless you as a community step up to the plate and be willing to sell this service you are GOING to see these buffbots continue in cantinas... it is pretty sad I know, but it seems to be a fact...
LeBob wrote:
Larmok wrote:
use this macro when you are 'afk' to kill a buffbot... call it 'botkiller'
/invite buffbot;
/pause 1;
/macro botkiller;
the buffbot 90% of the time will join your group and not be able to group with others..
Cheers;
Message Edited by Larmok on 07-09-2004 10:24 AM
this works for about 5 minutes... until the "player" comes to check on her bot and finds you jamming her machine... she then /addignores you.... which makes your invites not go through...
This really doesnt work with the more "advanced" buffbots who add /disband to the end of their buffing macro.
Ariven wrote:
Kreistor wrote:
Interesting. I was in Bria.Theed Cantina just yesterday, trying it out after not being there for a while. I myself can't buff yet, but I was dancing with two Master Dancers and two Master Musicians for at least a couple of hours. And they were pretty busy buffing people as well.
Now, this was only in Theed, I'm not sure where you normally hunt. Maybe you should try looking again??
Why do you think I wrote in past tense? I gave up looking for the most part.. now if I trip over one I will bother... otherwise I take my buffage where I can get it and as fast as I can get it, you see I was "trained" to not bother by all the people who couldn't bother...
But just since you mentioned that they seem to be out in force I will make an extra effort (again) and see what happens..
Oh, I'll be the first one to agree with you that the majority of people out there are learning that buffbots are the answer. That doesn't mean that it's right by any stretch of course
Again, I'll say that I'm seeing a more active entertainer community on Bria. I'm on Bria now because I used to be on Lowca and I was overrun by buffbots. I had to admit defeat there. Maybe your server is a pro ent server, maybe not. That could make all the difference as well.
Good luck, and thanks for taking another look!