Musician Archive

Oh yeah, I may be the Dancer Correspondant but I'm also working on Master Musician along with Master Dancer. Both are a lot of fun.

A difficult topic. Hijo has made some good observations on this one, so do a search of his posts and see what he has brought up. (a suggestion for Ricky whom I am sure has already read Hijo's posts as I have.)

The problem is that we want to encourage grouping and some musicians see this inability of the noobs as a barrier to grouping. The other side is that if we simply remove the percieved barrier then the upper levels of musician become vastly devalued. Like we've mentioned before, if everyone can play virtuoso, who cares to spend points on master? especially if the master skill box (under the changed system) would then only be giving us healing benefits and one instrument.

the majority of musicians are not in this for healing! (or money, but that's another thread) We're in it for the music.

my suggestion to keep the value of upper level music skills and still include the noobs was to allow the songs but make the experience lower than if they were playing their highest known song. Also, disallow bandflourish, and flourishes 5,6,7,8 on songs above your level. and of course virtuoso and ceremonial should stay reserved.

Now we can sound like a band at Waltz for a bit and then drop down for the mad xp every now and then. I grow tired of 4 hour folk sessions in the cantina, but what can I do till I reach master and have a decent sized steady band?

Wow Slipery, you went right to the flame, and made yourself look like the biggest idiot of all. Thanks for the education on how tha game currently works, of course for those of us who read we realize that the original poster was PROPOSING A CHANGE to that system -- suggesting that, to solve the problem of large groups in cantinas only wanting to play the low lever songs that every noob knows, SoE might change it so that n00b musicians can play high level songs in groups.

Unforuntately, while I am no unsympathetic to the problem of musicians getting to play high level songs, I think this would be a huge mistake.

It is easy to get groups. There is no longer enough incentive to ever become a master musician. Also, it waters down the class. An elite profession is not as meaningful if it is no longer "elite."

My solution to the "star wars1" problem as I like to call it is this: P L A Y E R S. That's right, musicians need to seek out other musicians and FORM GROUPS. Then they need to advertise -- "we are putting on a performance tonight in x cantina, come listen to songs other than Rock by a band of master musicians!" I guaruntee you people would listen. It would be nice if we could start making use of things like hotels and theatres for this very purpose.

And if noob musicians complain that people aren't watching them for experience, we are only talking about a few hours out of the night and they should deal with it.

So to recap -- I think the biggest solution to this problem is organization, scheduled events, and groups that aren't just open XP groups, but at small "band" groups that actually put on performances. If I was sitting in a cantina, I would (and I have) stopped listening to a large group playign "rock" so I could listen to a small group playing the ballad.

Sel

Ok, I just want to follow up - I STRONGLY do not want people who have not earned the skills to play the songs. You might as well just throw the point of the profession right out the window.

I think the best option is some variantion of the "muting" idea. Or you could call it some kind of a "practice" mode. And that would be that when a lower level musician joins a group playing a higher level song, they still get the right experience for playing the best song they can, but they don't actually play. Maybe they have some kind of practing animation or somethign other than just being "muted" but this would be the easiest way to fix things..

This idea avoids the pitfall of runing the class by giving everyone a change to be a master musician while grouped (I don't want ANY version of that idea personally) and it also solves the problem of grouping with lower level folks who can't play all the songs yet. It also gives them an incentive to learn all the songs.

I like the "mute" or "practice" idea a lot. I do not like the idea of any character getting in sort of skills before they earn them under any conditions.
Sel

What's the matter of letting a lower level musician play a higher level song... so long as they're grouped with that musician? This way you get more band channels, and usually a richer sounding song.

What's wrong with letting anyone in the group have the abilities of a Teras Kasi Master if grouped with one, or a Creature Handler or any other profesion? What's your master profession? You ok with people who haven't worked their butt off to get there just grouping up and getting all the same benefits?

Becoming a master musician is HARD. It should not be watered down by letting anyone reap the rewards of it ANY time for free by simply grouping up with others who worked their butts off to get there. It needs to mean something. There is no reason to even go to MM if all you have to do is group to ge the rewards.

The idea of a "practice mode" or muting is better because it is a compromise on both ends. IT doesn't make becoming a master musician meaningless and it also solves the problem of always having to play sw1 in cantinas for the sake of others.

Sel

The difference between letting everyone in a group having the abilities of a master tka, and letting someone play a song because they're grouped with a higher level musician is that only musicians are held back/prevented from working in a group if they aren't all the same level.

Consider the master musician a conductor... they can show the lower level musicians how to play by conducting the music. When they leave, you can't play the song anymore.

I've recently changed my mind on this matter. I agree with Selwynn and Rhobartt.

Form a newbie band and put on a concert of folk with some people. I tried this and it was difficult to organize. But it should be, bands require work from the members. Weeds out the 3rd prof. "entertainers" from the dedicated hard working, tip deserving kind.

I did the time and the organizational work. Now I've helped organize just one facet of a higher level band in game. I am by far the lowest musician in my band, everyone has at least master entertainer and ballad if not matser musician. I have spent much of my potential grind time trying to contact and organize our first two large gigs and recruit new members while in the cantina.

It might just look like I'm AFK in the cantina as i'm usually /telling 3 or 4 recruits and emailing another while trying to play. Hence my lower skills . My band knows this and they accomodate well. I take a break and dance when they are playing Jazz and Virt. and Ceremonial etc. I don't play Omnibox or even bandfill, I'm filling in on horn parts cause I don't mind making it sound good over getting huge xp.

And BTW, at Leppy's opening I was getting 100 xp per tick on the Traz everybody! Bands pay off, forget the pick-up xp grind in the cantina and find a hotel that isn't filled yet. The audience will come if you give them the opportunity. There is plenty of game time to be having fun. Unless you just _have_ to hit master before school starts. ....

Well done KoraJubali!

There are many other ways to arrange a situation where every muscian can group together, and not suffer an experience pentality that does not include giving someone skills they have NOT earned or forcing people with higher level skills not to use higher level skills. And that is what we should be striving for. I do think that the real answer should be for entertainers to start acting like real entertainers and begin to organize troupes and bands -- you could even have band names. People would start to ask, "hey is [insert that band name] playing tonight?"

But if you really do feel there needs to be a game design change, then the change needs to be one that does not give additional skills to people who haven't earned them. If that happens, I will absolutely stop attempting to go master musician, because what is the point? I'll just join a group and spend the skill points on my combat side. There is nothing special about being a master muscian if you know that the moment someone joins your group they can do everything you can do.

The idea of player "muting" or a "practice" mode for players of lower skill level is much much better.

Sel

I like the muting idea myself as an overall solution. A quick one would be to add just 1 song for newbies to be able to play completely different from sw1 - my ears hurt i don't care about xp most days (only when a level is in site - they're getting further and further away as i climb - and i know the audience ears hurt too. I don't like turning off my sound because it ruins the experience for me.

The idea on separate groups is good too if there are enough entertainers to make it worthwhile.

Wow, I'm just glad I'm past that SW1 and Rock phase! Sounds good to me too. Let them play a couple of tunes higher than their skill, but only if part of a group. Keep their xp the same as if they were playing SW1, and limit the band commands. Oh, keep the Virtuoso and Virtuoso for "Masters" only and limit the instrument they can use as well. I don't see what the harm is in that? It will give all of our ears a break.

BTW: Just want to say thanks to all the Masters on Radiant/Naboo/Theed for all the times they played SW1, Rock & SW2 for me! :-)

Trazom

Ooops "Oh, keep the Virtuoso and Virtuoso for "Masters" only " should be "Oh, keep the Nalargon and Virtuoso for "Masters" only"

Sorry, Trazom

Ooops Virtuoso and Virtuoso for "Masters" only should be Nalargon and Virtuoso for "Masters" only

Sorry,

Trazon