Merchant Archive
Thread: Two types of people opposed to this merchant change
joined42904
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:02 am
#105
I do agree with you Rurry that there will be some constriction of access going on.
But...not really. You can still do major transactions in game. You can still do large transactions with pre-ordered numbers of crates on vendors.
You just can't have one person dominating an entire market. And there is nothing wrong with that. The oligopolies will be crushed. Not-so-good items will become considered semi-decent if the oligopolists are sold out. You can tell if they are sold out by whether their vendor is on the map or not. 
Rurry
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:10 am
#106
joined42904 wrote:
Brilyn,
Put your guns up 5 to a crate. Or maybe 3 to a crate. Stock the guns the people buy the most of. Anything else is special order only.
Now...newbie comes to your shop and sees the crates. He things...shucks I wish I could afford that crate of 3 guns for 60k for t-21s. I can't. But I maybe know another rifleman who wants one too and I can afford 2 and have them sliced. I'll get the money together and buy those 3 guns. I'm so happy I have my great gun now.
Or...I can't afford it but I know where to shop to get this great gun now. I'll wait til I gather the other 30k to afford a crate of 3. It'll be great to get that many attempts at slicing anyway.
Or...I can't afford my first t-21. (well...then what did you spend your money on as you went up rifleman.Didn't you do missions at all? Gather hides for crafters at all? Well...you need to look into other money making opportunities. Go to the trade boards.) Maybe I'll send a tell to the crafter and ask him to put one in a backpack with my name on it just this once since I'm starting out. Surely the nice person will do that. I'll even promise to pay a little extra for that when I make some money using this cool gun.
Which of the above scenarios do you disagree with?
The one where the guy wants to buy a tuskin rifle or other newbie, which the WS doesn't stock anymore since most folks want Jawas/T21/lasers....
**edited for more***
Or buying crates of grenades, don't know about your server, but on wanderhome they can be tough to find and you don't buy one crate at a time....
Message Edited by Rurry on 08-10-2004 11:12 AM
Rurry
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:14 am
#107
You just can't have one person dominating an entire market. And there is nothing wrong with that. The oligopolies will be crushed. Not-so-good items will become considered semi-decent if the oligopolists are sold out. You can tell if they are sold out by whether their vendor is on the map or not.
And that will cause inflation....just when prices were recovering from hologrinding - this could be even worse.
joined42904
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:38 am
#108
Rurry,
If folks don't buy one crate of grenades then put the avg number of crates that people do buy in to backpacks and label them as such. Presto. The avg grenade purchase just got turned into a single item on your vendor.
Sell your tusken rifles on bazaar if you are feeling like being kind to newbies. I think every crafter should have one be nice to newbies item that he or she sells on the bazaar. For me, it's repair kits.
joined42904
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:41 am
#109
As for inflation,
Yes. There will be some inflation. But there should have been inflation long ago. The devs should have had a currency devaluation. They didn't despite the entry of lots of credits into the gaming world due to the duping fiasco.
Do you think that the value of a credit shoud be fixed relative to crafted goods when a combat character can get into a solo group and earn 1M credits a buff session? (This is what a wookie told me he can earn before the new armor. I can only imagine that other crafters are able to earn even more.)
So crafted goods will go up a bit. This will make more people enjoy crafting and feel that their crafting time is "worth it."
Rurry
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:14 am
#110
joined42904 wrote:
Rurry,
If folks don't buy one crate of grenades then put the avg number of crates that people do buy in to backpacks and label them as such. Presto. The avg grenade purchase just got turned into a single item on your vendor.
Sell your tusken rifles on bazaar if you are feeling like being kind to newbies. I think every crafter should have one be nice to newbies item that he or she sells on the bazaar. For me, it's repair kits.
Remember that there are folks out there who don't trust backpacks on vendors - and there are those who have sold packs of junk too.... I like to see exactly what I am buying, and you can't do that in a backpack.
Selling the tuskin on the bazaar does not bring the person to my vendor, does not allow him to see all of my stock, does little to nothing to enhance my business and build a return customer. That's just the way the bazaar works.
Zorkk
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:18 am
#111
Joined, I dissagree with yorur whole philosphy here,
As someone put it in this or another thread, you basically want it so that everyone has the same shops size... so that the ppl that work hard, and put ti into this game are punished. how is that fair/ how is that free market?
I'm a small crafter right now, and I dream of the day when i can have 6 vendors, all stocked with 600+ items a peice. You wanna take that away from me? put everyone on a par level of not enuf vendor space? I disagree
That's like a gov't telling all retail stores in your city, that they can only have 4 shelves worth of stuff. this is NOT acceptable, nor would it ever happen... except in star wars.
This game truly is what you make it... i fyou wanna big a big crafter, it's EASY. If you wanna break into the armour market, it's EASY.
of course the easy part is putting in the time, and the work, everyone can do that, and the ppl with more time, and more drive to make a thriving business should not be punished this way. There are plenty of opportunities for small time crafters, either to supply a niche market or grow bigger, and supply a larger portion of the market. We're supposed to have a free, unregulated market. Now they're trying to impose controls, and limits on that and i'm very upset. upset enuf to stop playing i think.
Here's an idea... we have a 'real world' market.. why don't we have 'real world' taxes... each item on a vendor taxable in some way. Not based upon the sale price of the item, but just a blanket tax/item that increases the more items you have...
110 items or less... 1 credit / item / day
100-500 items 2 credits / item / day
etc etc. so ppl could stock a couple thousand items.. but it will cost them a couple thousand a day, and therefore will need to decide just how many items are needed to be listed on their vendor, those that can afford too, can and will, but credit will also be flowing out of the economy.
Z
joined42904
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:53 am
#112
Rurry, you can name the Tusken Rifle with the waypoint of your vendor if you want.
joined42904
Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:00 am
#113
Zork,
I agree with you that it wouldn't be hard to become a big crafter if you are willing to devote the time to it.
You are more than welcome to disagree with my philosophy. I welcome dissenting opinions.
I've never heard of a progressive sales tax based on the number of items you own. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I also have to love some of the proposals from the anti-limit crowd. You see them arguing that the maintenence on the vendor should be doubled for every xxx items you have on it. Get real. Vendors don't receive a living wage for maintenence as it is. Put 40k on a vendor...a small amount to any elite crafter...and see how long it lasts. For a very very long time. What if you had to pay 10x as much? You would never notice it. I don't think you would notice the per item tax either unless you were a tailor or architect with a well-stocked vendor. And these are exactly the kinds of folks we don't want to hurt. I have sympathy for the tailors and architects who make furniture out there. I don't think many reasonable people will approve of your item tax idea.
You claim, "We're supposed to have a free, unregulated market." Says who? It's what you are used to. But it may not be the best solution to a gaming economy wherein some folks don't have jobs and have lots of time to devote to crafting compared to others. Let's give folks diminishing returns after xxx hours of time per week. That sounds great for the casual gamer imo.
Zorkk
Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:57 pm
#114
Joined
Thankfully i never said the progressive sales tax was a good idea. Was just something that occurred to me while writing the post, so i thought i would throw it out there. The theory behind it is that it could create an 'invisible' ceiling item cap. So that at some point it will get too expensive to put any more items on a vendor. For some people this might be after only 500 items, with a 3cr/item tax , for others, it might be 10,000 items at a 100 cr/item tax. Also, those large crafters who want to keep their vendor stocked, will have to do so with the result of lesser profits, thereby taking money away from them, and while not neccisarily into the hands of the smaller crafters, at least it's gone from the game.
Your totally right about the negative effect such a proposal would have on the tailors and architects, so scrap that one 
maybe perhaps a 'storage tax' which is based upon how much and how many of a particular item you are selling? Probably not workable either
maybe perhaps a 'storage tax' which is based upon how much and how many of a particular item you are selling? Probably not workable either No one has specifically said that the PLAYER run economy is a free and unregulated market. I just happen to think that it's implied. we can make what we want, we can stock what we want, we can charge what we want, and we(used) to be able to store what we want. Also, we have the tools, and the resources, to mass produce items. If we have the ability to mass produce, we should also have the ability to mass sell items. how can these 2 things not go hand in hand?
"sure you can run off 1000 units in a factory... but we're only gonna let you sell 110 at a time (if that)" How can this not be wrong???
It seems we may be arguing 2 extreme's here. Your all for the little crafter, let's help that guy out. I'm all for no limits, because I personally think that 'casual crafters' is an oxymoron. The resources needed, the time involved really makes it that even with these item limits, the 'casual crafter' really won't be better off. Will they have the better resources? No. Will they have more stock than they currently do? probably not. Will people buy more from them? My gut feeling on this last, but all important question is NO. Ppl will hold out for their favorite crafter, or a crafter that can make them the item with the specs they want.
Z
Brilyn
Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:18 am
#115
< Which of the above scenarios do you disagree with? >
All of them.
This isn't intended as a flame, but you obviously don't know anything about selling (weapons, but these comments are true for most).
First off: People, on the whole, buy singles.
Second, they want the gun *now*. Most, if they send me a /tell while I'm in a city, don't want to wait the **5** minutes it takes to make the gun.
Third. They don't shop with friends. Their friends (should they have any) have weapons. They may direct a friend to a store they got a good weapon in, but they don't shop as a group.
Fourth, "The guns the people buy the most of" depends on the week. Depends if people are changing profession. Depends if there's been a recent influx of newbies. Depends on how long the resources a T21 needs are out of shift.
Fifth, my vendor happily spews out "If you don't see what you want, mail me and I'll make it for you". I have *never* received a /tell because of that.
In summation: People want 1 weapon at a time, they want to buy it when they see it, and they don't want to interact with you.
All your suggestions are flawed on that basis.
Ferrek
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:34 am
#116
zukem wrote:No Arkel. You are what is called a dabbler. You dabble in minimal professions and expect to get the full benefit from said profession.
No I'm not, no I don't, and no I don't.
Good guesses, but unfortunately - although not surprisingly - all of them are wrong. Just like if I tell you that you're an elitist, that you master the professions you can and want, and then proceed to label anyone who dares to pick up a skill from any of your mastered professions and expect the benefits from said skills as exploiters. Of course, since I actually realize that I have no basis for reaching such a conclusion I know better than to actually claim that. Unfortunately, the same thing can't be said about you.
You don't see a problem with this change? Good for you. There are countless posts on this forum and others from people who do see a problem - a very big problem. Label us exploiters if you like. Tell us we have no right to voice our opinion if you like. I'm glad to see it atleast makes you happy, because it sure doesn't matter to anyone else.
PhoenixOrion
Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:55 am
#117
zukem wrote:
I just realized that there are two types of people that are opposed to this merchant change.
1) legitimate merchants that do not want to see low limits. These people have used the skill points in the merchant tree, and who are really not opposed to this nerf. But they are opposed to such low vendor maxes. If these vendor maxes were increased based on experience, so that higher level merchants can place more items than what the initial proposal was, they'd be happy. (i.e. master merchants get unlimited, merchant 4 gets 400 per)
2) Exploiters. These people are strongly opposed to any kind of change in merchant. These people are those that grinded through merchant, put up vendors, and now have no or minimal merchant skills. They have no skill points invested in merchant. With this new change, they will also eventually lose these vendors. And they will no longer be able to restock the vendor with wares. These people want private vendors at no cost to them.
So the question is which type are you. If you are type 1. Then please argue all you want about this upcoming fix, and what a possible solution might be. This fix is going to happen. It's just a question now of what the limits would be.
If you are type 2. Then really you have no business posting here.Merchant is a profession, and soon to be a very valuable profession. Just like how chef was for a good portion of the game, they are suddenly the profession to be.
I think you are missing a few more types. I'm neither 1 nor 2. Although I'm closer to 1 than anything.
I have business III and might be picking up Business IV depending on what combat skills I am willing to sacrifice for a 2nd vendor. So I'm also in a way, a Merchant. I don't have the Merchant Profession, but why am I to be left out? Why should I be penalized if I don't want a full-combat or full-crafter profession?
So really. I'm all for a nerf. But against any proposed limit under 300 items per vendor.