Merchant Archive

Hey guess what! Justin Timberlake made a song for all you people whining about how they need to use other ppls vendors because they're to ****ing lazy to do merchant themselves, it's call "Cry me a river"!

To the whiny ass BE that started this trend - YOU DONT NEED COMBAT SKILLS! Get some social skills and ask someone for help. Sure a whole group of ppl may kill your "sample", so get a friend that has an elite combat prof and get them to distract your "sample"...*coughRETARDcough*

To the BE/CH - ...YOUR THE DUMBEST SOB ON HERE. WHY THE HELL DO YOU NEED PISTOLEER?!?! If your a master CH get your pets to tank for you while to get your "sample"...No combat skills are needed for a CH, maybe you and the whiny wookiee should become friends and complain to each other.

Hey, here's another idea...why dont you both find a Ranger to make as your friend...They can Camo you (not to mention track "samples" for you) AND help to distract the "sample"...then you don't need extra scout skills.

With all that extra sp you no longer need, you can get well into Merchant.

All I have to say is you have no clue. It is obvious you have never played a BE.

I also wouldn't be surprised if you are the secondary account of balkstar or dingoboi. You have their flair for flaming.

Message Edited by DragonScout on 07-03-2004 12:55 AM

one, my response about never being a BE was to the assassin guy. or was that not obvious enough? It also is not an 'attack'. It is an estimate made based off comments. I wouldn't ever attempt to tell a pistoleer how their profession works or what works well for them because I have never actually played a pistoleer. So by suggesting that you are right and can see the whole picture because you ran some figures through a profession calculator is ludicrous. We all know that just because a profession is supposed to work one way, that it isn't necessarily true in this game. Just look at merchant for example.

two. It is not realistic to expect to get a ranger to follow you around and camo you, and only camo you, while you get samples. Sorry, I have tried it, it isn't worth it -- especially if you have to pay one. So lots of personal mask scent skill is required.

three. When I was a BE, I did go through a merchant to sell my things. But he was also an RL friend -- and that made a world of difference. Because the trust was completely there. This saved me from poaching vendors, because the most commonly accepted GOOD BE template that I know of and used myself, was a mastered combat prof, 0004 medic, 4040 scout, and master BE. That gives you 23 left over skill points, one shy of being able to 'legally' get a vendor.

This isn't about greed. Bio-Engineer has a legit complaint. They are the only primary crafting profession that doesn't have 'easy' access to at least one vendor.

Even doctors cannot claim that because crafting for them is not the only thing they can do. Their main focus is healing other people and their crafting is just there to allow them to make the things they need. A BE can't use anything he makes any better than anyone else. And unless he is CH, he can't use MOST of what he makes anyways. And to suggest that someone just have CH instead of a master combat prof is a joke, because it really isn't viable to 'kill' things these days with just pets.

Now, I am not going to whine for BE's here. I just understand -- having actually played a BE -- where the original poster is coming from. And he was coming here for HELP so that he could NOT poach. That is the sad thing. And yet he gets bashed for it, and told too bad. Isn't it shocking that people decide to poach after reading these boards?

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p4Samwise wrote:

To dredge up another of my favorite examples - how about the bug that lets you drop items on staircases and then move them around while they maintain their altitude? Was exploitingthat one bad for the game too?

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QFE, Dingo. If you say something like "all exploits are bad for the game, period", don't expect me to drop it.

*throws eggs*

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DragonScout wrote:
one, my response about never being a BE was to the assassin guy. or was that not obvious enough? It also is not an 'attack'. It is an estimate made based off comments. I wouldn't ever attempt to tell a pistoleer how their profession works or what works well for them because I have never actually played a pistoleer. So by suggesting that you are right and can see the whole picture because you ran some figures through a profession calculator is ludicrous. We all know that just because a profession is supposed to work one way, that it isn't necessarily true in this game. Just look at merchant for example.

two. It is not realistic to expect to get a ranger to follow you around and camo you, and only camo you, while you get samples. Sorry, I have tried it, it isn't worth it -- especially if you have to pay one. So lots of personal mask scent skill is required.

three. When I was a BE, I did go through a merchant to sell my things. But he was also an RL friend -- and that made a world of difference. Because the trust was completely there. This saved me from poaching vendors, because the most commonly accepted GOOD BE template that I know of and used myself, was a mastered combat prof, 0004 medic, 4040 scout, and master BE. That gives you 23 left over skill points, one shy of being able to 'legally' get a vendor.

This isn't about greed. Bio-Engineer has a legit complaint. They are the only primary crafting profession that doesn't have 'easy' access to at least one vendor.

Even doctors cannot claim that because crafting for them is not the only thing they can do. Their main focus is healing other people and their crafting is just there to allow them to make the things they need. A BE can't use anything he makes any better than anyone else. And unless he is CH, he can't use MOST of what he makes anyways. And to suggest that someone just have CH instead of a master combat prof is a joke, because it really isn't viable to 'kill' things these days with just pets.

Now, I am not going to whine for BE's here. I just understand -- having actually played a BE -- where the original poster is coming from. And he was coming here for HELP so that he could NOT poach. That is the sad thing. And yet he gets bashed for it, and told too bad. Isn't it shocking that people decide to poach after reading these boards?

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I jumped in at this point to throw what I posted 4 pages ago into the mix.. Or wasn't that clear enough. I still have no real answer as to why BE's can't spare the points.. None. If you have some, bullet point them for me please.

There is no reason why a BE can't sell wares, I said it on pages 1 and 5 and am STILL waiting for an answer as to why the system I took the time to research and post is totally wrong. Just because you say its not good enough, is not a good enough reason not to take it into consideration.. If you think that the numbers I 'crunched' are not good enough, just tell me why.

I am STILL waiting to see this legit complaint. BE is the only crafting profession without easy access to a vendor according to you. I think that the part where I said Exploration III instead of Exploration IV gets you a vendor and master combat skills, or the part where 4/4/4/4 over master in combat get's you the bonus to mask scent is a fair compramise to make..

The only reason I hauled you out DS was in that original quote in bold, it's you and a few others having this debate now and the original poster gave up a long time ago.. OR was THAT not clear enough. I just want to know the reason WHY you are arguing this, and more so why you are arguing it here.. This is not a merchant issue, if it's not enough SP for a coke machine, it's Artisan.. If they can't find a merchant here is not the place to come looking if you re-read the original posters topic and tone, it was provocative.. Here is my question, just give a short answer.

Q : Is the whole point just that you need exploration IV over exploration III to be a good BE as opposed to a mediocre one at best ?

Message Edited by BountyBlunter on 07-04-2004 07:06 PM

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Rehavam wrote:

And when do you think will SOE implenent your very good ideas? Look at the smugglers.... they're still waiting and get pushed back regualry.

At the end everything what we achieve is nerfing the fun of other people who don't have the money to operate two accounts. Sure, they should not have been able to have their vendors in the first place, but the damage is already done. I just don't understand why most of the regulars in this forum think that we will get more fun out of the game by ruining the game for other people. I am a merchant btw, and while it is true that it is frustrating to see that our skills are almost useless the solution to this can't be to take things away from other people but rather add more stuff for usefull stuff for us.

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Patch's and publishes come and go, to me time is not pressing. They will be done when they will be done...

I fail to see how this would be a NERF.. Does everyone get enjoyment out of the vendors which they have ? IF the answer is yes then it is not that hard to pick up a vendor without breaking your characters back, I've been saying that alot, they can still have the fun but at the price which should have originally been paid.

However I think, as a Merchant, that giving everyone a vendor would indeed qualify as a NERF of the Merchant profession, and indeed the Artisan profession.

Message Edited by BountyBlunter on 07-04-2004 09:44 PM

It has been said before, and I will say again. Take a look at exploration tree. Which actually helps you with mask scent? ohh, thats right, 2 and 4. 3 does absolutely nothing for you. and 4 gives you a +30 to mask scent -- which is a HUGE jump.

Also, you might not think 4444 versus master is that big of a deal, but as someone who has tried several different combat professions, there is a significant jump in the ability to LIVE when you are a master combat profession. So yes, that one skill point IS important. And in my estimation -- as someone who has actually played through the various combinations in reality, not in a calculator -- just having 4444 combat or exploration 3 versus having master and exploration 4 makes it MUCH harder to be a 'good' BE.

Go play a BE, and try your suggestions and see how well you do. Then come back here and try to tell me what is so easy to see.

As far as why I am arguing it, is for the simple fact that I think it is an injustice that BE gets shafted in this way. They are the only primary crafting profession that doesn't have easy access to a vendor. And that is a problem in my opinion. And since all vendor related issues eventually end up here, what is the point in posting in another forum. Also, the question was posted here by a player who didn't want to vendor poach. Something that should have made you all happy. And yet instead of giving him any viable advice, you bash him or give him uneducated answers that only 'work' on paper.

The sad thing is that yes, the original poster gave up... but he had to go buy a secondary account to accomplish what he wanted. and THAT is not acceptable to me. All this profession does is encourage mules and secondary accounts and it is only going to get worse with the vendor poaching fix and vendor revamp.

Again, since you all seem to 'miss' this when you get caught up in my posts, I DO think they should fix vendor poaching. BUT I don't think it should be fixed until the profession has more substance to it than just vendors. There is NOT enough to this profession to make it a viable stand alone profession as it is now. Fix that, and I seriously doubt vendor poaching would be an issue any longer, nor would people treat it as such an imposition to have merchant to sell their items. Instead more people might find it fun to actually PLAY a merchant, instead of as it is now where people only have it for the utility. I would bet most of the people that have merchant would give it up in a heart beat if they could keep the utility and not have to worry about it being wrong or right. To me, that is a sad state for the profession because it reeks of mules and secondary accounts. Every profession I have, I have because I enjoy DOING things with the skills that profession gives me. You can't say the same for merchant because the only tools it gives you lie in the initial set up of a vendor. once a vendor is set up... you are done and all you do after that point is stock it. And I don't know about the rest of you, but that is not fun to me.

And your reasons for singling me out were pretty clear, they just were fairly pointless since you acted like I was responding to you, which I wasn't. Perhaps you missed all the discussion in between pages 1 and 5.

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DragonScout wrote:
It has been said before, and I will say again. Take a look at exploration tree. Which actually helps you with mask scent? ohh, thats right, 2 and 4. 3 does absolutely nothing for you. and 4 gives you a +30 to mask scent -- which is a HUGE jump.

Also, you might not think 4444 versus master is that big of a deal, but as someone who has tried several different combat professions, there is a significant jump in the ability to LIVE when you are a master combat profession. So yes, that one skill point IS important. And in my estimation -- as someone who has actually played through the various combinations in reality, not in a calculator -- just having 4444 combat or exploration 3 versus having master and exploration 4 makes it MUCH harder to be a 'good' BE.

Go play a BE, and try your suggestions and see how well you do. Then come back here and try to tell me what is so easy to see.

As far as why I am arguing it, is for the simple fact that I think it is an injustice that BE gets shafted in this way. They are the only primary crafting profession that doesn't have easy access to a vendor. And that is a problem in my opinion. And since all vendor related issues eventually end up here, what is the point in posting in another forum. Also, the question was posted here by a player who didn't want to vendor poach. Something that should have made you all happy. And yet instead of giving him any viable advice, you bash him or give him uneducated answers that only 'work' on paper.

The sad thing is that yes, the original poster gave up... but he had to go buy a secondary account to accomplish what he wanted. and THAT is not acceptable to me. All this profession does is encourage mules and secondary accounts and it is only going to get worse with the vendor poaching fix and vendor revamp.

Again, since you all seem to 'miss' this when you get caught up in my posts, I DO think they should fix vendor poaching. BUT I don't think it should be fixed until the profession has more substance to it than just vendors. There is NOT enough to this profession to make it a viable stand alone profession as it is now. Fix that, and I seriously doubt vendor poaching would be an issue any longer, nor would people treat it as such an imposition to have merchant to sell their items. Instead more people might find it fun to actually PLAY a merchant, instead of as it is now where people only have it for the utility. I would bet most of the people that have merchant would give it up in a heart beat if they could keep the utility and not have to worry about it being wrong or right. To me, that is a sad state for the profession because it reeks of mules and secondary accounts. Every profession I have, I have because I enjoy DOING things with the skills that profession gives me. You can't say the same for merchant because the only tools it gives you lie in the initial set up of a vendor. once a vendor is set up... you are done and all you do after that point is stock it. And I don't know about the rest of you, but that is not fun to me.

And your reasons for singling me out were pretty clear, they just were fairly pointless since you acted like I was responding to you, which I wasn't. Perhaps you missed all the discussion in between pages 1 and 5.

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So.. The answer was 'YES' this is all over the difference between Exploration III and Exploration IV. Glad we cleared that up.. It's really not that big of a difference at all +30 to mask scent. I can make that up if I think really hard..

* cracks open a Jawa Beer again *

My reasons for singling out your post were clear, correct, I took this whole thread and looked back to the original post, you got included and so did a few other people. If you thought it was a direct assault on your ego, that's not my problem.

I didn't find it as an attack on my ego. I just found it funny. Because you have obviously never played a BE or tried to ask BEs their opinions -- even when they post here for ease of reference. And I guess the difference between us is that I wouldn't try telling a BH or pistoleer or armorsmith how to go about their templates and what they need or don't need, for the simple reason that I have never played one and don't know. On the other hand, I have been a Bio-engineer, and I have been a merchant and I think that gives me a unique perspective to both. hence why I post my opinions when someone pulls up uneducated responses that they got from profession calculators.

It isn't just over the difference of a food/beverage boost. If it was, the need for exploration 4 wouldn't be as necessary. As it is, to get 'good' DNA you have to go up against creatures that are going to see you unless you are max'd out on masked scent. This means you need at least exploration 4, and either bio-eng'd clothes or chef enhancers on top of it. unfortunately chef enhancers usually aren't the best route just because from personal experience, it was more important to use things like brandy so that when they aggro'd I wouldn't have my mind sucked dry from sampling and would still be able to fight. If I wasted that drink fill on something to increase my mask scent, it would only be partially effective and in the end be something that much more likely to get me killed.

Just so you can understand the situation better.. You not only need to be able to get close -- if I remember correctly, it is like 10m -- to the creature, but you also need to be ready to fight when your sampling causes it to attack you. The first part mask scent helps you with. The second it doesn't at all.

Things aren't as cut and dry as you would like to make them seem. Like others have stated, everything is a choice and has a price. I just disagree with the logic that says BE should have to give up the chances of being a good primary crafting profession in order to get a vendor, when the rest of the primary crafting professions don't have the same restrictions.

Just a quick comparison.

to be a 'good' master weaponsmith with a vendor, what do you need? You need resources and to train completely up to master. Now, to get those resources, you don't have to spend an additional 15 skill points in another basic profession to be able to survey them, you just add an additional 14 to survey. so from 92, you are now up to 106. then, if you want a vendor, you add another 9. so 115. And you are a 'good' master weaponsmith. You can make just as good of quality as any other weaponsmith out there.

Now you might say that what about tailor or chef or armorsmith, where they have components that require organic resources. Good point. But, since to be a 'good' crafting profession with a vendor only takes 115 skill points, it is fairly easy to drop another 92 in any other profession and still have 43 left over to place where you want. Hell, you could even master a crafting profession, master artisan -- which gives you your vendor, master a combat profession and still have enough to place 18 skill points to get advertising 3 in merchant, or put that skill into novice scout.

Do you see the difference between the crafting professions? BE is on the same level, yet it is restricted from a vendor because it doesn't stem off of artisan. And they have a right to want a viable way to sell their own things, just like every other primary crafting profession -- without going through a merchant. And all of this doesn't take into account the usefulness of the survey tree to a good BE -- but we will just assume they can buy those resources or buy waypoints to them.

Other people posted better ideas, namely to work with a merchant or guild -- which is actually what I ended up doing, because a RL friend was doing merchant... good luck though if you don't have someone trustworthy -- or to get a secondary account. Sadly those are the only ways that are really 'viable'. Your ways just limit the effectiveness of the BE and make it pointless to want to sell things to begin with.