Merchant Archive
Thread: My take on the upcoming Vendor and Merchant changes
Songe
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:27 am
#92
SargusQuintek wrote:
You are speculating on reasons why people can not stock a vendor. Where do our men and women in the military fit in that are off fighting for our country? Most of them are not able to get to a computer. I know a few that didn't discoinue their accounts to prevent a purge.
They are in the inactive category... Easy enough.
SargusQuintek
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:45 am
#93
Oh thank you for pointing that out Songe. However, inactive was not in the offenders list of 1, 2 , and 3 as suggested by Balkster.
UniformMarshal
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:47 am
#94
our military personnel who know they are going on tour and are not gonig to be anywhere near a computer do 3 things:
1) Liqudate and Quit the game
2) Close their shops up by paying maintenece and putting up a -closed- sign
3) Have guildies, RL friends or Spouses care for thier toon.
So now you have to ask yourself these interesting questions:
1) How many of the 388k vendors in this game are empty 75% of the time?
2) Of those empty vendors, how many are from cancelled accounts or from hologrinders who use it
to auction of thier high end loot?
3) How many times have you gone Vendor Hopping to look and yet find nothing?
Songe
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:50 am
#95
Inactive, people who quit, is the same category for me - people who don't play.
Balkstar
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:58 am
#96
SargusQuintek wrote:
You are speculating on reasons why people can not stock a vendor. Where do our men and women in the military fit in that are off fighting for our country? Most of them are not able to get to a computer. I know a few that didn't discoinue their accounts to prevent a purge. They also didn;t want their vendors to go poof so they paid them for a couple of years. There could be many reasons why people are not able to get to the computer to fill a vendor. You are one of those people that could care less as long as your end of the game is all good.
I will say to you asI said to DingoBoi. Produce me some hard evidence that the poaching situation is causing the major problem you say it is. You can only state your opinions in this matter as I can do. My opinion is that those who poach are in the minority of running stocked vendors. It is my opinion that these poachers are mainly hologrinders and combat oriented players who have nothing other than loot or resources to offer for sale thus not offering much compeition to a legitimate operator. I would guess that most crafters who operate the vast majority of the vendors I see have the basic merchant abilities to throw up a vendor.
So there you have my opinion with nothing other than my words to back it. The same goes for you and all the other vendor game wardens.Until you can produce the evidence that I asked for such as database numbers on poached vendors, legitimate vendors and their respective volumes on items and sales, you can not back your claims either.
I guess it was too much to think you could critically analyze the situation. I guess that's my fault for assuming too much. You want hard proof based on numbers. SOE is the only one that numerically provide the number of vendors that are being exploited, not me.They tend to lock those numbers up in the deepest darkest dungeons of Sony.
What I can give you are these facts (these are undisputed):
1. Not one post in this board that have ever been critical of this profession ever used the words,"It sucks that I have to keep skillpoints in..." (Maybe because they are already exploiting skills off of the Merchant tree? Hmmm...)
2. There is a bug in the game that allows players to gain Merchant skills in sales and advertising that can be kept for free after the skll points are reclaimed from the skill boxes.
Both of these points can be brought together to show one inescapable conclusion: There are players in the game that do not care about the profession at all, but they crave the skills that come out of the profession so much so that they stoop to stealing those skills away. They then use the skill points that should be intended for the Merchant skill boxes and move themto another profession that allows another income stream to the player.
It is this type of behavior that is stealing from not only me, but the entire non-exploiting player base. Their ability to work through another income stream that is not availible to non-exploiters ruins the fun for the entire base of players, members of the Merchant profession most of all that have not recourse but to keep the skill points locked up.
Demonssword
Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:34 am
#97
p4Samwise wrote:
So it's a good thing that we have to spend additional skill points and maintenance credits to make up for the crappy vendor interface? Better throw out that request for a better vendor UI, Doc - it's a feature, not a bug!
Demonssword wrote:
Everyone knows that having 2 or more vendors makes life alot easier when selling theirjunkwears. But in fact you can just have the 1 of them and live a perfectly good life selling your rubbish to people. It will just take them longer to find it.
I didnt say to not improve the interface. Infact i segested that either earlier in this post, or atleast a few times on other posts.
If they did make a much better user interface then it would make it easier to just have 1 vendor. Though also you have the trouble that if they make the interfact perfect that you could have a situation were no one wants to have more than one vendor in any house as its easier to just bundle it all into 1 vendor as its easy to do. Though again this has the upside of the fact you could then have many stores or merchant tents in many different places with just 1 or 2 vendors that would be able to fuction right.
Of course you are still going to get the NPC people who get dressed up cos it makes the place look nice, and alot of people like to have their own storage bot with all the gear they dont want to sell at 99999999 and just redone every 30 days.
DocSavag
Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:50 am
#98
It would suite me just fine if you guys would stop debating it over and over and over again. There hasn't been a new arguement for months on this subject.
SargusQuintek
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:04 am
#100
Tools, skills what's the difference. You still get to the same end result. Someone making items without having the skill. You say it was intended but if you read several crafter forums you will find this is an arugment. Some crafters do not want you to be able to use a schematic if you do not have the skills for the item in it. It runs along the same path of your argument but you dismiss it right away. Interesting.
Whether this is fixed or not doesn't affect me. I, like most crafters have the necessary skills to back merchant. I'm just going to be sad when you all push for this change and this is all merchant gets. We will still be left with a crappy profession and I will still be putting my items one at a time back on my vendor every month. Oh yea, I will lose all my competitors. I hope I don't. As it is now crafting is so unpopular that I have more business than I can handle. I dare not post my professions on the server forums for fear of a flood of orders. Why? Because it is so hard to find crafters that stock their vendors. For me I would stock if I didn't have to relist hundreds of items every month. Yea it's in your priority list, but it falls under the only one you will probably get fixed to ease your complaints.
Balkstar
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:17 am
#101
SargusQuintek wrote:
Tools, skills what's the difference. You still get to the same end result. Someone making items without having the skill. You say it was intended but if you read several crafter forums you will find this is an arugment. Some crafters do not want you to be able to use a schematic if you do not have the skills for the item in it. It runs along the same path of your argument but you dismiss it right away. Interesting.
So be it. Tools and skills are virtually the same. I have no arguement with that, with the exception that tools have a physical manifestation (toon, if you will) in the game.
Realize that i can turn it around and sell factory schematics to ANYONE on the streetand, with the proper resource supply, a free factory, power to run that factory, and cash to keep the factory running,can turn out numerous weapons. SOE has decided that that is a good with intrinsic value to EVERYONE, not just the crafters of the profession that created the factory schematic in the first place. And weaopn smiths have the opertunity to sell or use those schematicsto anyone they wish. If I had the opertunity to sell those schematics, your damn right I would sell schematics, and I would suggest that crafters do the same instead about whining about a non-existant issue.
Message Edited by Balkstar on 06-15-2004 08:28 AM
Scoooter
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:15 am
#102
Balkstar wrote:
SargusQuintek wrote:
Tools, skills what's the difference. You still get to the same end result. Someone making items without having the skill. You say it was intended but if you read several crafter forums you will find this is an arugment. Some crafters do not want you to be able to use a schematic if you do not have the skills for the item in it. It runs along the same path of your argument but you dismiss it right away. Interesting.
So be it. Tools and skills are virtually the same. I have no arguement with that, with the exception that tools have a physical manifestation (toon, if you will) in the game.
Realize that i can turn it around and sell factory schematics to ANYONE on the streetand, with the proper resource supply, a free factory, power to run that factory, and cash to keep the factory running,can turn out numerous weapons. SOE has decided that that is a good with intrinsic value to EVERYONE, not just the crafters of the profession that created the factory schematic in the first place. And weaopn smiths have the opertunity to sell or use those schematicsto anyone they wish. If I had the opertunity to sell those schematics, your damn right I would sell schematics, and I would suggest that crafters do the same instead about whining about a non-existant issue.
Message Edited by Balkstar on 06-15-2004 08:28 AM
Well SOE has determiend that anyonce can place in a schematic and load in resource into an automated factory. What is your point.
A weapons smith or whoever must make the schamtic.
Even though SOE has done that it is difficult at best for people to actually do that since most schematics require components with a defined resource and those components mustbe in the end schematics with a defnined serial.
Even though possibe, difficult to do and keep going.
Balkstar
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:26 am
#103
Scoooter wrote:
Balkstar wrote:
So be it. Tools and skills are virtually the same. I have no arguement with that, with the exception that tools have a physical manifestation (toon, if you will) in the game.
Realize that i can turn it around and sell factory schematics to ANYONE on the streetand, with the proper resource supply, a free factory, power to run that factory, and cash to keep the factory running,can turn out numerous weapons. SOE has decided that that is a good with intrinsic value to EVERYONE, not just the crafters of the profession that created the factory schematic in the first place. And weaopn smiths have the opertunity to sell or use those schematicsto anyone they wish. If I had the opertunity to sell those schematics, your damn right I would sell schematics, and I would suggest that crafters do the same instead about whining about a non-existant issue.
Message Edited by Balkstar on 06-15-2004 08:28 AM
Well SOE has determiend that anyonce can place in a schematic and load in resource into an automated factory. What is your point.
A weapons smith or whoever must make the schamtic.
Even though SOE has done that it is difficult at best for people to actually do that since most schematics require components with a defined resource and those components mustbe in the end schematics with a defnined serial.
Even though possibe, difficult to do and keep going.
Exactly my point. Factory schematics are goods, not tools, of the crafting professions. They can be sold (and should be sold) to anyone , just as prototypes or factory made items can.
You are exactly right, Scoooter, in that utilizing a factory schematic is hard and costly to non crafters, as most crafters rarely have the resources to build out the items easily and cheaply in factories. It is theentire reasonI listed all of theequipement needed torun the factory in order to create the items listed on the schematic.But it is not an impediment for non-crafters to try.
p4Samwise
Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:28 am
#104
Balkstar wrote:
Very simple rule. If you can trade an object and have it be used by someone who has never EVER had skillpoints allocated at any time to the profession that has created it, its a good.
Everything else is a tool.
I propose a different rule: there's no such thing as a tool. Only a good.
Now, how is your ruleany more validthan my rule? 
The reason I ridicule the "goods vs tools" rule is that it reeks of being carefully crafted to support a single argument, and has no authoritative backing.
The reason I ridicule the "goods vs tools" rule is that it reeks of being carefully crafted to support a single argument, and has no authoritative backing.That doesn't make it WRONG, of course, but using it to "support" a point as if it were a factis silly, because it's part of the point you're trying to support. Get me?