Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchant Item Limits Focus Thread: Please try to be constructive and rational (Pt 2)
vabli
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:14 pm
#92
o and btw, they should remove the 30 day time casp too. im sick todeath or reloading my vendors
darthsabertooth
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:29 pm
#93
this cap thing is...(must..not...lose..controll) well i wont say wat it is in fear of being banned from the forums.There should be no limits,but i could LIVE with 3000 items total,as long as theres no per vendor limit.If there is a per vendor limit it should be AT LEAST 800.Also,they could make a per vendor limit but still have a lower overall limit than the vendor limits combined.I would like to know why SOE is making a limit.I seriously doubt its really about the database
ockeew
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:32 pm
#94
a simple 500item/vendor at master merchant would keep me happy... as only a few of my vendor ever really surpass 500... and that is my main resoruce venodr.. but to be honest 30pages is a bit unruly... so 500/vendor @ master would keep me happy, and get rid of the damn 30day rule... or make it so we can pay liek a .5% listing fee to have it auto relist.
vabli
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:39 pm
#95
ive just read on another thread i can store all my items in bags on my vendors.... how ever, lets say im crafting bph's im gonna have to empty my inventory and route through alll my bags till i find the 8 resources needed or whatever, i think not. im sorry but if theres any cap on items at master merchant i will be up and off to final fantasy and/or WOW and SOE can keep there stinking limits and nerfs. I sick to death of getting booted in the teeth by u
vabli
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:47 pm
#96
something else has just come to mind, its pretty hypocritical for it to state in the thread subject please be constructive when all SOE do isdemolish anything anything of any use to us......... THE PAYING CUSTOMER!!!!!!!!!
Ejai
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:49 pm
#97
Personally, I am so sick of empty vendors I would LOVE to see something put in place to "deactivate" them after a 48 or 72 hours. That way you don't lose any maintenance if it was an honest issue, had a car wreck, or whatever... that would also take them off the world map registration.
I feel Master Merchants need incentive to keep their Mastery: I think they should have unlimited items - but being a realist, I would hope for something at least as high as 500 per vendor, and (here's the new thing) the ability to accept items from other players on consignment. In the second instance, non-merchant players could offer items to a Merchant vendor, and the merchant would have the ability to accept them for sale without actually purchasing them. If & when the items sell, the Merchant would earn a percentage of the sales price. The offering player could withdraw the sale at any time, and the same 30 day limits would apply. This would accomodate those folks who are non-merchants in giving them a way other than the bazzar to sell their wares, and it would add new level of interaction for Master Merchants. It would also create incentive to be a Master Merchant and forego any other crafting profession, as in essence players could become fronts for other folks who ignore Merchant for concentration on crafting. Think about it... in the real world - or even in the fantasy worldof Star Wars - how may retail shopkeepers actually MAKE the items they sell?
I couldn't agree more where folks have stated that the other trees in Merchant are bogus.Here's an idea:why not add the ability to actually craft (or train NPC) merchants?!! You want a vendor? You have to get one from a Master Merchant!
Storage is a huge issue for virtually every seasoned player who crafts. There simply isn't a good way to manage millions of units of resources, the ridiculous number of components needed for the crazy variety of completed items, etc. I hear suggestions all the time.. safe deposit boxes... factories... hoppers... NONE of these are workable. So... here's my thought: add a new structure for Architects - a Warehouse! Make this structure have a large item limit (say - 500 or even 1000), and make it only be able to be placed by a Master Merchant (like the tents).
This one won't be popular, but the more I think about it the more I like it: prohibit vendors from being placed anywhere but Merchant Tents. Merchant tents would then get a new option in their management administration control: "Grant Vendor Placement". Non-Merchants would then essentially have to rent space from a Master Merchant for a small maintenance fee. This would save a lot of time & trouble running around into houses looking for what room folks have hidden their vendors in...
Similar to the Warehouse idea: add a new structure for Architects: a "Mall". Again, only able to place by a Master Merchant... possibly considered a City Structure.... and if the idea above were implemented this would be the only other structure vendors could be placed.
A variation of the consignmentidea - add a control option for Master Merchants to "Grant Shelf Space". Non-merchants could then be allotted... say... 50 items of space on a vendor that is maintained by a Master.
That's my brainstorm. I am fairly new to the forums, so if anyone thinks those ideas have merit, please feel free to steal them and carry the torch to see if they might be accepted by the almighty developer Gods!
Oh. I will add one more thing.... I seriously doubt this limit idea will happen as stated - but if it does, I know my accounts will be cancelled. Stay tuned for announcements on the Tempest server for a huge clearance sale!
Tempest Server
vabli
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:05 pm
#98
Ejai wrote:
Storage is a huge issue for virtually every seasoned player who crafts. There simply isn't a good way to manage millions of units of resources, the ridiculous number of components needed for the crazy variety of completed items, etc. I hear suggestions all the time.. safe deposit boxes... factories... hoppers... NONE of these are workable. So... here's my thought: add a new structure for Architects - a Warehouse! Make this structure have a large item limit (say - 500 or even 1000), and make it only be able to be placed by a Master Merchant (like the tents).
Similar to the Warehouse idea: add a new structure for Architects: a "Mall". Again, only able to place by a Master Merchant... possibly considered a City Structure.... and if the idea above were implemented this would be the only other structure vendors could be placed.
these 2 are fabulous ideas although id stress there has to be no limit cap on the number of items. as ive stated previously, i have about 3000 items in storage and that figure is growing all the time. the other draw back to the ideas are i simply dont have the lots to place em what with factories, houses, harvis and such. i have 2 accounts and my lots are always used up pluss my friend lets me use 10 of his 20 lots, again 90% of the time these are fully booked. so for this problem i suggest lettin merchants place these structures (1 of each per master merchant) at no extra lot cost.
vabli
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:17 pm
#99
check out this link as a way we could maybe protest http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=merchant&message.id=40792
Gotti_Is_Back
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:35 pm
#100
Please consider consignment menu options for the vendors.
Observer
Aleysian
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:41 pm
#101
What do you mean 65pages is enough? I want unlimited pages, if I don't get unlimited pages I'll cancel my account!!!:smileytongue:
Now on a more serious note: I've posted this before in the previous thread but now thatI am in the first 5 pages maybe I'll get more feedback, so here goes my suggestion again:
Here's my suggestion (for Merchant Revamp and Database issues - for those who don't get it the database issue is also for upcoming JTL which will use more database resources-Being a DBA in real life I can appreciate some of the difficulties and cost of maintaining a large Database - that being say normally before making a change that affect so much the business function (gamers having fun and paying for it in this case) professional IT specialist meet with their client (or their representative)and user first and take their requirement into consideration- oh and to spell it out, this game being fun is Mission Critical for the survival of this business venture):
Publish10.0
Vendors:
-30 days warning to people with Vendors that don't have merchant skills (bonus option: given them the option to buy back merchant
byfreeing sp
- they've grinded it before and should have the option of getting it back - even if they were using an exploit IMO.For the record I have
mastered merchant anddropped it and didn't keep any vendor'cause I don't like using exploit but I understand why people, especially
crafter, uses it).
-Empty vendor should be removed from the map as soon as they are empty, and be deleted if they have nothing in them after a week
or so since theindividual will still have merchant skill to place them it will only become an annoyance to replace them (nothingfor map
display means nothing for sale,nothing for vendor deletion means nothing in sale, in offer and in stockroom). One even better then
that would be vendor that do not contain goodin the category they adverstise should be remove from the map, I hate seeing a vendor
in weapons and goind to that vendor and find out they are only
selling resources or baits and fishing lines.
-Stockroom limit should be the same as the sale limit (stockroom limit for the vendor owner not the buyers). Otherwiseyou are just
displacing the problem.
-Offers to vendor since they count in theofferers bazaar limit should not be a factor.
Characters on multiple servers:
Limit the number of character somoene can have from 8 to 4. Will limit cross-server trade and reduce load on server. Let's face it
the most uber gamerengage in cross server lot trades, sure they could scream I won't be able to experience all the different
species/combination at the same time but let's face it who really has the time to play with 8 different characters other then for cross
server trades... People that focus on creating an alter-ego on one server or two servers should not be penalized by the one that are
using cross lot trading on 8... I think the loss of "fun" from loosing 4 characters if it means astronger economy and greater item limit
is more then worth it (This is not a popular option and I expect it to be rejected probably rightfully so. Consider this the absolute lass
sacrifice I would be willing to make over a crippling object limit).
End of Patch 10.0 evaluatestatus of the Database (see how much database technical or SLA limits are still a problem).
Publish 10.0a (10.0a could be done as part of 10.0 or 10.1):
Merchant Revamp regardless of item limits (but absolutely required with item limits):
Modify Efficiency I - Allow merchant to become market turning there vendor into Bazaar where crafter can sale items with no fear of
theft from Merchant. With Efficiency I, merchant would only be able to charge a flat rate for this service, also this
is an option that could be turned on or off (a la private/public vendor). To avoid griefing should the vendor be
deleted the crafter who put items for sale would either have there good teleported to a public bazaar where they
wouldhave 30 days to get them back or even better in a temporary container in their inventory where they have
30 days toretrieve them. To avoid merchant deleting vendors to create virtual storage space for other crafter a
Merchant shouldnot be able to replace their vendor for 30 days following deletion of a vendor in which they were
saling items for othercrafter (if they need to move that badly they should have to buy the items - otherwise you just
create another exploit). The merchant should be able to "add" crafter to their vendor's access Bazaar function or
even have the option of fullpublic (anyone) if they so choose.
Modify Efficiency III - The merchant can now charge a percentage of sale price instead of flat rate, also they can determine how many
items can be sold publicly (ie by other crafter on their vendor - since they might want to sale only a percentage to
other).
Publish 10.1 Item limits with 1 month warning before enforcement (1 month to give time to people to negotiate trade/storage agreement with Merchants)
Merchant Revamp with item limits:
With the introduction of vendor/bazaar the items limit would be less of an issue and although crafter could still sale many items,
Merchant, instead of crafters would be forced to specialize. I agree with all the opinion that 660 is to low, plus based on the next
page feature it shouldreally be a multiple of 100 to be consistent with the current interface. I would suggest a total limit of 3000
distributed as following:
Business III: +1 vendor+ 250 item limit
Business IV: +250 item limit
Master Artisan: nothing (I disagree with master artisan getting bonus to items, it should all be based on Merchant type skill only,
maybe masterartisan couldcraft something to increase vendor effectiveness if they want to create interdependencies but it
shouldn't give any bonus toMerchant type skills).
Novice Merchant: +1 vendor +200 item limit
Advertising I-IV: No change, having skill in advertising doesn't increase your abilities to stock items.
Hiring I (would really become Hiring/stockroom management since Hiring by itself is currently an very poor skill): +100 item limit
Hiring II: +150 item limit
Hiring III: +200 item limit
Hiring IV: +250 item limit
Efficiency I-IV: no further change other then the one proposed, they offer enough bonus in maintenance reduction especially
since that servicecan be sold to others with little risk if the buyers and merchant are smart (give admin right to merchant when
you set up the harvester at the first time so there is noresource in the harvester or be there if it's your house and there is very little
risk and you can benefit from a reduction anywherefrom 20-0.5% inmaintenance cost depending on the cut and greed of the
merchant). NOTE this should not be considered an exploit and shouldjust be consideredoutsourcing services to increase efficiency.
I'm sure SOE can understand the principle of outsourcing.
Management I: +1 vendor +100 item limit
Management II: +1 vendor +125 item limit
Management III: +1 vendor +100 item limit
Management IV: +1 vendor +125 item limit
Master Merchant: +1000 item limit
Total Item possible for Master Merchant: 3k, I would prefer more but base on your comment this seem to be the only possible maximum
acceptable limit, by introducing the bazaar aspect on vendors to protect the crafter you will reduce the impact of the item limit and really
allow merchant to BE merchant for other crafter. Since there is no lawyer profession in SWG (thank God for small favor
we need ways to protect people from scammers and griefers). Also a way to browse content of vendor containers would be good.
Ideally 3k aggregate but at worse this would mean500 items/vendor (not great but probably tolerable to most).
Stacking limit required with Item Limits:
-Increase container limit from 100k to 10000k (or at least 2200k (why at least 2200k cause it's the number of low-grade ore
required to produce 1000 wall modules whichI'mpretty sure is the highestresource demanding sub-component - Oh and I
know to craft 1000 city hall would require more resource but forgod sake's you should even be able to have crated city hall,
come on)no added stress to the database other then modifying field definition (easy to implement if your code was made
dynamic enough or tons of variable definition to redo if it wasn't and /tskto theprogrammer if it isn't)).
-Factory cratecontent for all items that need to be used in the crafting of other items raised to 1000 (other item stays as
current (crate of 1000 swoop no,crate of 1000 wall module yes).
-Allow to recombine crates of the same item together (could even be extended to recrating items with the same serial, this
even could be a new type of services that either NPCs or Specialized merchant vendor could offer for a cost as another
money sink).
Housing revamp required for Item Limits:
Small House: 150 items as it is (75 for the Naboo one) (uses 2 lot)
Medium House: 150 items(uses 2 lot)
Large House: 450 items (uses 6 lots and it's much better for a Star Wars feel to have less friggen house out there just so
that people can have more inventory space).
Factory: x items in input only (x equal the maximum different number of items required to craft one item. Yes this would
be a pain when you want to change production of item but that's how factory are in real life and why most company specialize).
Output still 100. As a side note, but I differ, sub component quality should be based on resource quality only not experimentation
that way non master crafter could actually produce goods for master crafter and this would improve general trade and reduce
the impact of this change since non master could focus on producing sub-component and master on producing finished goods).
If you don't do that then you will just shift the database problem as people will do cross server factory trading to hold items.
If people still want to use vendor as item storage under this new system it wouldn't be any problem as they would just use
skillpoint for storage and deny themselves the opportunity to make more money - can we say bye bye to looted CDEF
showing up on vendor The other reason for that is to prevent factory from being used as storage chest (it's being used
that way I know since I use a factory solely for that purpose). Now an alternative proposal to both reduce factory usage
as chests but to also allow greater flexibility to merchant would be to keep the current 100 item limit in the input but to only
allow resource container and sub-components usable by that factory type stocked there.
Publish 10.15 Item limit enforced (as soon as Merchant logs on he/shewill have to select items to remove from vendor sales
or stockroom to bring total within limit)
Note: I know JTL will need more database time but setting up trade agreement between crafter/merchant and changing the way people
do business require time as well. Hopefully my suggestion in Patch 10.0 will be sufficient for the beginning of JTL if it is not. I suggest
pushing JTL to save SWG instead of sacrificing SWG just to make a few more buck with Shelves sales of JTL cause if you kill the economy
you can kill this game goodbye... No one will want to be crafter and without crafted goods the other profession will fall apart (except maybe
TKA with high defense from other melee profession).
That's my constructive 2 credit worth I suggest you take it seriously I see it as the only option to
1-Improve game play;
2-Create a greater sense of community by merchant/crafter interaction while protecting the crafters from Merchant griefing; and
3-Resolved instead of displaced your database issues.
4-Save this game. People can live with liesand promise not being kept, you are just failing to address existing problem so nothing really
change for them except the continuance of the annoyance, butadd a ton of problem on their shoulder that further decrease gameplay without
improving it at all and kill this game. Convice SOE that it is in their long-term interest to do a better job with this game since it will mean more
loyal customer and longer term return on investement.
On a final less constructive note(sorry just need to vent a little):
I will continue playing this game after the change come into effect for a month or two regardless of how it is implemented but I will not buy
JTL (even if I am eager for it, I wanted to be a spacefighter pilot even more then a Jedi when I heard about this game)until I see how Pub 10is
put in place and affect the economy, if it destroys it, bye bye 3 more accounts. I can live with no improvements but not with setbacks.
Oh and if SOE kills SWG (which is a game I dreamt about since I saw return of the Jedi and played computer games) dare I say I will boycott SOE.
Good luck to you Doc in your negotiation with the Devs... And good luck to you Devs in your negotiation with management/accountants.
NOTE to new posters (like me): Use the Preview Post Option
Secondary note: I really don't like the idea of less character but I would choose that over a crippling item limit.
Last Note: If you don't like an idea I've posted it please say it and explain what are your concerns with my ideas? Also even if you don't like one of my idea I ask you to please take the time to look at all of them and ideally give your opinion on all of them.
Text in blue is new text that was not in my original post.
NOTE: Most people seems to go for a number between 2000-3000 as being acceptable (having played both an architect and a tailor I would tend more to the 3000 aspect). That being say I'm totally opposed to having all the items being in Management, it gives no incentives to take Master Merchant. I beleive that all skill in a profession should give you a significant benefit. I just don't consider different vendor style given by Hiring as singifcant, quit frankly I consider it a waste of points compare to what other tree gives you. Base on that I beleive that a significant amount of Item limit increase should come from hiring.
For other's people benefit I also pulled DocSavage's suggestion and my counter-proposal:
DocSavage:
My latest idea looks something like this:
Business III +100
Business IV +25
Novice Merchant +25
Management I +25
Management II +25
Management III +25
Management IV +25
Effiency I +10
Effiency II +10
Effiency III +10
Effiency IV +10
Master Merchant +50
This is a Max of 340 Items per Vendor at Master (2040 total) or 290 items per vendor at 0404 (1750 total)
I really want these to be aggregate and again I've asked that they be postponed pending our getting additional tools to help us manage wholesale relationships with crafters.
The point of this change in my idea is to give non merchants a break and to make newer merchants more competitive to masters. The other idea I had posted was to top heavy and make it so you didn't get most of the items until you were almost a master.
Me:
Hey doc not bad (I still prefer my suggestion from page 32) but this could be acceptable I would suggest starting negotiating at a max of 3000 and then be willing to reduce to 2000 max items (a vast number of people seems to be able to live withing those numbers although the 3000 range seems to be preferred).
Also I would suggest scaling the item more toward the higher echelon. Most Elite profession follow a curve that gives you higher bonus in the Rank IV then the Rank I and I beleive Merchant should follow a similar pattern
I would also remove the +25 item in management, in your system you are offering a number of item/vendor and not an aggregate number, your current numbers would make Management skills work like other Elite profession but would make that skill tree to valuable over the others let me demonstrate:
Management I525 items
Management II 800 items
Management III 1125 items
Management IV 1500 items
Efficiency would give 10 item extra per vendor making it much less interesting then Management but the reduce cost would make it much more valuable. Now base on your propose change a 0404 Merchant would almost have almost allthe benefit that a Master Merchant has (reduced maintenance fee of 20% on all structure and 1750 items). What would be the point of being master merchant? The advertising line is still desirable but salers can make a lot of money through word of mouth or easily drop Advertising once business is successful. Now I still beleive Hiring needs to receive some of the love, as it stand it's a pretty lame skills (except maybe for Tailor were the vendor's look is more important). I know when I shop I don't really care if a vendor looks cool or not I care about the good he sales. Now Hiring means you have skill at interviewing and selecting the best personnal, well those better personnal should be able to handle more good. So I would suggest shifting a significant amount of items from Management to Hiring and potentially from Effeciency to Hiring (or at least no Item bonus at Efficiency IV since that skill already gives a huge bonus on it's own).
So base on your view I would re-arranged as follow:
Business III 100 items
Business IV 25 items
Novice Merchant +1 vendor, +10 items (this would make you go from 125 items totalto 270 items)
Management I, +1 vendor, +10 items
Managment II, + 1 vendor, + 10 items
Management III, +1 vendor, +10 items
Management IV, +1 vendor + 10 items
Efficiency I, +5 items
Efficiency II, + 10 items
Efficiency III, + 15 items
Efficiency IV, nothing (20% reduction cost is enough IMO)
Hiring I, +10 items
Hiring II, +15 items
Hiring III, +30 items
Hiring IV, +40 items
Adverstising I-IV nothing (Advertising IV with droids could always be use to advertise other merchant's vendor - so we could now make money for doing Ad campaings)
Master Merchant, +40 items
total max item per vendor: 340 (I would still prefer a final multiple of 100). I REALLY think the Hiring skill needs to be worth more then it's current value [especially from a money making point of view since and that's what merchant is about ]
XarCal
Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:42 pm
#102
If you want to be a good merchant, or take a break...you have a big stock....unfortunately this wont let you do that.....so unfortuantly the good merchants, or not the hardcore ones will have to have many vendors for the same thing, or have to take time out of their normal lives just to put things on their vendors..i think this was a bad idea personally, who ever could have come up with this thought must have been a smacktard intern 
Duckfat
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:09 pm
#103
Ok I have thought this out for a long time and here is a solution that may satisfy everyone other than the people that are using the vendors as extra storage space. To start off I still believe that everyone should be able to place a vendor whether you are a merchant or not. However I believe that merchants should get benefits that cannot be used by non-merchants. In order for this to work all the devs need to do is give everyone a vendor or two. However you will need merchant skills to do things like advertise on the map or with signs, use npc vendors that show up on the overhead, place a vendor in a location other than your place of residence, and reduce the cost of the vendor.
The cost reduction is the main focus for me. I think the devs should bring back the increased cost of maintaining the vendor based on the price of the items on the vendor. This will solve a whole lot of problems. First off it will stop people from putting things on their vendor for 999999999 credits and using it as storage. Secondly I think people will stop puttingjunk on their vendor that will not sell. Also I believe that this will help the economy by lowering prices of items as people will lower the price of items so that they sell instead of sitting on the vendor and eating maintenance. And finally it would give true meaning to being a master merchant as the more skill you have the lower the percentage in maintenance you would have to pay for the vendor up to the point where it may be negligible.
Example:
Business 3: 1/100,000
Novice merchant: 1/200,000
Efficiency 1: 1/400,000
Efficiency 2: 1/600,000
Efficiency 3: 1/800,000
Efficiency 4: 1/1,000,000
Master merchant: 1/2,000,000
So at Business 3 you pay 1 credit for every 100,000 credits of items you have on the vendor down to 1 credit for every 2mil credits worth of items for a master. The actual percentage could be different as this is just an example of what I am talking about.But even with this itwould mean that even for a master to try to store things on a vendor it would cost him500 credits a dayto store a bag at 1billion credits while at the same timehe could keep a normal inventory up to 1 billion in worth on the vendor for 500 credits a day. It would be completely out of the question for anyone else to try to store anything on the vendor that they were not actually trying to sell.
Anyway this is what I think will make people happy to at least keep a vendor for personal use without having to resort to what the devs have planned. It is self limiting without the need to actually make a cap that may be to low for certain businesses. And it gives more meaning to being a master merchant by making it more appealing to be a master as the gains are more than just vendor space.
Breatai
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:45 pm
#104
someone said in the other thread:" SOE, in a nut shell, you are shooting yourself in the foot."
They did this with EQ also. Some how they managed to not ruin planetside but they are charging to much for FPS/MMO, the price is the only thing that keeps people from being steading customers. sorry $13 amonth for a FPS si to much when i can long on to a dozen different games for free to play FPS's.
EQ is so baby'ifed its not even funny.. Not sure if that is what they are trying to do or not, but they are ruining a perfectly good game over some very stupid issues..