Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchant Item Limits Focus Thread: Please try to be constructive and rational (Pt 2)
Dimear
Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:34 pm
#79
I've been a master merchant since May. How about having a vendor's item cap be a function of the average number of items sold? That way the real crafter who actually runs a good business and is a service to the community can keep selling product. And the person who just uses his vendor for storage will be nerfed?
Fixing the problem with non-merchants using merchant skills is good. It's just the item cap that will kill all real merchants. Make it higher for those that benefit their community (maybe 10000 items at master merchant for a high volume business), and lower for those that don't (50 items on a non-merchant vendor that never sells anything). Make the cap based on last week's sales or something...
Fixing the problem with non-merchants using merchant skills is good. It's just the item cap that will kill all real merchants. Make it higher for those that benefit their community (maybe 10000 items at master merchant for a high volume business), and lower for those that don't (50 items on a non-merchant vendor that never sells anything). Make the cap based on last week's sales or something...
lemonella
Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:53 pm
#80
Well, I don't like a limit on vendors at all, but I'm trying to be realistic here. I would like to see 750-1000 item limit per vendor for a cap of 4500-6000 for all six vendors. But, if that is being unrealistic, the lowest number I can live with is a 500 item cap per vendor, for a total among all six to be 3000 items. I won't like that, as a master tailor/architect. It will still make shopping an uncomfortable situation, as well. A good tailor/architect, and there are many on the Starsider server, will still be very limited in clothing and furniture selection. I, for one, will not carry mens clothing anymore, unless it's bio clothing. I will no longer carry furnishings, as well. It's not worth taking up space for. The only furniture items I see me carrying is paintings. I've looked around and I think my shop carries paintings for the cheapest price, but that is also going to change. I don't want any huge runs on my items, so I'll probably have to jack up prices, as well.
This change is not going to be good, regardless of what they make the limit to. The only word that I really keep thinking of in terms of SOE devs and database admins is....incompetent. I can't believe they actually get a paycheck for running things this way.
Rhazohn
Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:54 pm
#81
Doc, I don't envy you this position. My suggestion is to have the DEVs try for once in there life here to give us what they believe is the proper number of items per skill box level. We can throw numbers & suggestions around all day ( my suggestion post was deleted out of the first thread by Virrago after I posted afew messages to the galaxy boards on Saturday a.m. attempting to get people to read your first thread. Virrago!!! stick it where the sun don't shine!
If the DEVs have a definate number in mind then they should not have lowballed us with the 110 max limit. That's sheer madness & was looking to stir up the hornets nest for sure. Someone more than likely ran a calculator somewhere & has a true number in mind that was passed on to the DEV team before they made the 110 decision to go to test.
If the DEVs have a definate number in mind then they should not have lowballed us with the 110 max limit. That's sheer madness & was looking to stir up the hornets nest for sure. Someone more than likely ran a calculator somewhere & has a true number in mind that was passed on to the DEV team before they made the 110 decision to go to test. I was out & about on the Shadowfire server today, looking at vendors & I found these results:
I spent about 4 hours today visiting a few vendors across Tat & Corellia & the average number of items on vendors that I visited was 205 across 35 vendors & I found 22 empty vendors. The largest vendor had 753 items on it in a tent with 3 other vendors above the proposed 110 items cap.
Most of these vendors were loot & misc items vendors as I was looking for loot kit drops & anniversery paintings but I peeked at every vendor in a shop that advertised having vendors & some of them are very serious crafters of all types.Shadowfire, as everyone knows is the smallest galaxy. I can only image what the Biggalaxies must look like.
We are stuck with a item limit cap coming. 110 at Master is unacceptable. The DEVs are not gonna change item stack sizesor storage space in houses for us. That is my big beef. I will have no where to put excess runs of items to keep my factories free to run. I constantly run off 1000 item schematics of powerups. My sales on a low day are 50 of both melee & ranged powerups. Last weekend I sold 250 powerups alone!!That leaves me very little room for Droids, droid accessories, master artisan items such as craft kits &electronic components, vehicles. So yes I am guilty of having an item storage vendor that hold both resources & crafted items to sell. I have limited time to play this game & I will NOT become a slave to the vendors. I like to go sit in the cantina & chat or go along on a hunt for the challange of not dying all night or take one of my alts out & do a theme park raid or PvP. The limit cap is basically telling crafters to stay home near the craft station & your vendors & leave the other parts of the game to others.
The alternative is to specialise & possibly allow in other crafters into my nice little shop. That involves a level of trust that the fellow player will be as dedicated as I am to keeping well stocked vendors with good quality items at fair prices. Ain't gonna happen. I run my business, my way. It's what I am paying to play for. There are many good malls near me that allow this to happen & I compete with them with my products & so far everything is going fine in our player city.
Lastly, most of my former suggestions are similar to what most merchants want anyways & have suggested across the year. If they can't be implimented or are 'coming sometime after the combat revamp' it will be too late. The limit is just tooooo low. Plain & simple. I suggest either given us more vendors ( up to 10 at master at the 110 cap ) or raise the item cap to at least 330.
My 2 credits
"War is War & Business is Business & War is Great for Busine$$"
Rhazohn Badwih - WanderInc
Wander in to WanderInc. Next to the shuttleport in Brenn, Naboo, Shadowfire
StumanKadir
Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:55 pm
#82
200 Items at Business 3, and a further 50 items at Business 4 and Master Artisan (ie; Master Artisan gets a single vendor with a 300 item limit).
At Novice Merchant, you get another Vendor, and another 300 Items.
Each management skill gets you another vendor and 300 items, and each additional box in the Non-management trees gets you another 50 items, with Master Merchant gettinga further 300.
This would mean that a Merchant 0/0/0/4 would get 6 vendors with a total of 1800 items across all vendors.
A Master Merchant would therefore have a theoretical limit of 2700 items.
In addition, if the holder of a vendor is a Crafter (irrespective as to whether they are a Novice Merchant or higher), they get a further 100 items added to their limit at Novice, and a further 200 again when they master their crafting profession.
This would mean that a Master Crafter/Master Merchant would have a theoretical limit of 3000 items in total across all vendors (500 item limit for each vendor).
Zed-TORA
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:00 pm
#83
Virrago wrote:
ElvisTheKing wrote:
Virrago wrote:
Original Thread Here
Can you unlock it please?
No. 65 pages is enough. Continue in this thread.
Nice Answer... That is about the same type of responce i expect from devs 110 items per vender is enough continue paying us...
The only unified developer responce was to lock the threadthat was almost 100% against the way they do there job but like this vendor Nerf they figured oh the player base is to stupid to notice.
Seems to me the Policy of SOE is not "you pay us to put out a good Producthow can we help you?" rather it is "Screw you pay us and if you dont like it tuff sh*t!"
Oh well guess this means one less adiction in my life if this nerf goes thru.
As for a constructive idea Set a single limit per vendor of say 500 to 1000 The increase of vendor #s is already built in and will allow those who go higher in there mastery to have more items up. Possibly spread out the Vendors allowed to each tree.
whirlingdervish
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:03 pm
#84
Not sure about you guys..but the first thread was locked and is on my stickies at the top of the page.
I'm working on my issues...today I solved one of my little problems by doing a 30 lot x trade with some rl friends of mine.
Basically I just moved my crap from one database to another....and Im sure others will be doing the same. SWG is saving nothing by doing this.
(fair warning: if you trade with someone and their acct gets deleted for inactivity, you lose your stuff too)
FIRST, before doing anything......get all the inactive accts, 2 week trial accts, and people who no longer have merchant skill cleared up.
SECOND, make crate sizes bigger and make EVERYTHING stackable. If you loot 7 janta bloods then they should be a STACK of 7..not seven indiv. items. Many architect comps dont stack.
THIRD, stop with all the crap loot. No one wants junk cdef pisols with no mods..and even with mods, they are still pretty worthless. This just clogs the databases and it's yourown fault... not ours.
FORTH, lay off all the specialized resources. Would it kill you to let us use regular inert gas instead of reithin? That would free up a lot of my inventory space and make my life much much better. Then maybe I could actually have room to DECORATE my house.
FIFTH, increase the bizzare limit from 6k to 1 mil. or so to help people the nonmerchants out there who are other master professions. Its stupid seeing 400 stacks of 500metal for 6k each(theres a database hog if Ive ever seen one.)
THEN, come to your player base in a REASONABLE manner and ask us what we can live with. Give us numbers...we mess with computer games, can tie our own shoes and can probably understand basic economics if you take the time to explain it.
Then and only then should we start talking hard numbers..with master merchants having something like 1k and 7 vendors and the first boxy vendor you get being able to hold 75 items at the VERY least....thats the minimum I can deal with.
I still think ALL masters should get a vendor....or you should get a vendor at novice artisan..even if it only holds 25 items.
I've see a lot of excellent ideas over the past few days...no one at Sony is paying attention or they DONT WANT TO. Locking that last thread was pretty petty if you ask me.
LadyGrey
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:04 pm
#85
MrElmar wrote:
>> You need to tell us WHY this must be done.
as a developer myself (not at soe so spare me the flames) comments like this crack me up ... get over yourselves ... you don't own any part of this game or have any rights owed to you. the only right you are i have is when you or i choose to log in and play it (assuming the bill to play is paid).
Excuse me? I was ASKED for my opinion about this. I was ASKED to bring up constructive and rational thoughts and suggestions. I am merely seeking information so that I can give a constructive and rational reply. Depending upon WHY they feel the database needs to be limited has a great bearing upon what is constructive and rational to say at this point.
Since DocSavage has skirted around my question, that has actually answered my question.
Hopefully I'm not using any of the products that you develop, MrElmar. With your rather obvious sense of responsibility to the customers, I'm pretty sure you aren't working for National Instruments, or any of the more reputable, dependable companies.
Gealache
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:12 pm
#86
Super_nice_Jedi wrote:
A possible exploit could occur from this Merchant Nerf:
Also this nerf could also make people create loads of 14 day accounts, to gain 10 more lots to store their masses of items from vendors, resulting in loads of houses or factories popping up everywhere, and then no one will be able to drop an extractor. Heres the thing: Create a 14 day account or two or three or four etc, drop loads of factories/houses, give admin rightson the paying accounts char house/factories to the 14 day accounts, then those 14 day chars can movethe items from the main char to the 14 day accounts factories/harvesters, then in about 13 days later activate more 14 day accounts, and with the first batch of 14 day accounts move the items back to the main chars structures, and use the new 14 day accounts to move the stuff from the main chars structures to their new structures, then the first batch 14 day chars removes their structures and places them in storage in the main chars structures for storage until 13 days later when a third batch of 14 day accounts get created and so on.
Also this nerf could also make people create loads of 14 day accounts, to gain 10 more lots to store their masses of items from vendors, resulting in loads of houses or factories popping up everywhere, and then no one will be able to drop an extractor. Heres the thing: Create a 14 day account or two or three or four etc, drop loads of factories/houses, give admin rightson the paying accounts char house/factories to the 14 day accounts, then those 14 day chars can movethe items from the main char to the 14 day accounts factories/harvesters, then in about 13 days later activate more 14 day accounts, and with the first batch of 14 day accounts move the items back to the main chars structures, and use the new 14 day accounts to move the stuff from the main chars structures to their new structures, then the first batch 14 day chars removes their structures and places them in storage in the main chars structures for storage until 13 days later when a third batch of 14 day accounts get created and so on.
A rather long winded process but to those who have spent a yaer crafting and to suddenly lose it all, it could very well be worth it, and especially as this Nerf will in essence "ruin" the game for the majority, so people won't care, but this will cause a huge strain on the SWG servers, uses up loads available names unnecessary, could turn the playing field into a mass factory/house wasteland, for those who don't remove their structures before the 14 days are up or those who can't be bothered to remove them, resulting in not much room to place harvesters/houses legititmately. Although they would go poof soon enough when the maintenace runs out, unless someone pays 50k credits on each of them. Also this would mean that Gamespot/Fileplanet will suddenly have a false mass increase in their userbase, which could end up putting a strain on their servers too.
Hell, all you would have to do is have the first set of 14 day accounts use /transferstructure to the second set of 14 day account. Voila!
DialynnaAnaria
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:16 pm
#87
I just posted this in another thread but it disappeared so I felt compelled to post it here to in hopes that someone might see it and it might generate the input that Doc has been asking for. And I hope it better explains my position on the proposed 110 item limit for Master Merchants.
I'm a Master Tailor/Master Artisan/Master Merchant and have been for a very long time. As I had my business structured before the announcement, I had 1 vendor for PUps, 1 for vehicles, tools and backpacks, 1 for factory crates of cloths and such that other crafters needed (armorsmiths and chefs), 1 for special orders/storage (yeah, I'm guilty too), 1 for BE/Special Schematic clothing and 1 for regular tailor stuff (it had over 900 items on it). I am attempting to restucture at this time in advance of the patch. I have kept my 1 PUp vendor (it does quite well for me), my 1 vendor for vehicles/backpacks (I'll no longer offer tools or repair kits), my special order vendor is now my special order/be/schematic clothing vendor, and my other 3 I am breaking down into 1 for formal wear, 1 for casual wear and 1 for field wear. But I am still facing the challenge of getting them down to 110 items each. The Pup and vehicle/backpack vendors were easy, I just won't offer as many any more. And my special order/be/schematic vendor I will be able to manage I think. But the other 3 are a true challenge. Formal wear has 88 pieces (that includes the jewelry - now if they'd give me just one more vendor then Formal would only be 69 items and Jewelry 19 items so that would help me out alot), casual wear has 90 items and field wear has 52 items. At 110 items per vendor for master merchant, I will be forced to use my vendors as SHOWROOMS ONLY and resort to special orders only. But at a 500 item per vendor limit, I could offer up to 5 different colors of everything and a few extra of the popular items. I could work with that and be a happy tailor.
So that would give Master Merchants a total of 3000 items they could have for sale on 6 different vendors. (I have to admit, I love the idea of giving up 7 vendors at Master but I won't push that) That would also allow me to still offer factory crates of cloths and trim for armorsmiths and chefs.
The limits I think might work would be as follows:
Artisan Business 3 - 1 Vendor - 75 items -total of 75 items for all vendors
Merchant Novice-2 Vendors - 100 items -total of 200 items for all vendors
Merchant Management 1 - 3 Vendors -150 items - total of 450 items for all vendors
Merchant Management 2 - 4 Vendors - 200 items -total of 800 items for all vendors
Merchant Management 3 - 5 Vendors - 250 items - total of 1250 items for all vendors
Merchant Management 4 - 6 Vendors - 300 items -total of 1800 items for all vendors
Merchant Master- 6 Vendors - 500 items -total of 3000 items for all vendors
Merchant Novice-2 Vendors - 100 items -total of 200 items for all vendors
Merchant Management 1 - 3 Vendors -150 items - total of 450 items for all vendors
Merchant Management 2 - 4 Vendors - 200 items -total of 800 items for all vendors
Merchant Management 3 - 5 Vendors - 250 items - total of 1250 items for all vendors
Merchant Management 4 - 6 Vendors - 300 items -total of 1800 items for all vendors
Merchant Master- 6 Vendors - 500 items -total of 3000 items for all vendors
(OR Master Merchant - (7) Vendors - 400 items - total of 2800 items for all vendors but I'm just wishing not wanting. Make us want to be Master Merchants )
But that's just my idea. That is something I could easily live with and work with and not be hurt at all. To the contrary, it would helpme to better manage my inventory and allow to to keep better track of my stock.
I also like the idea of merging merchant into the respectivecrafting professions. So that when I hit Master Tailor, I would get the 6 vendors since it is an advanced profession but if I just stop at Master Artisan, I would only get 3. That would be a fine solution I think. Put merchant skills in with the experimentation so as we take that up (and most do that first) we would earn our vendors for our items. That would be cool too or so I think. Not to mention, it would free up skill points for me to use to perhaps take up another crafting profession or to take up a weapon skill so I can protect myself. And if I take up another crafting profession and master it I would not earn an additional 6 vendors but instead perhaps just one more ( thought I'd drop the idea of a 7th vendor did ya?).
Doc, I feel bad for the roasting you have been getting. I know I've said and thought a few bad things since I heard about this but you are not to blame here. You are doing what you can to try and help us communicate to the devs that a) we hate the 110 item limits; b) we like the rest of it; and c) we just want something a bit more workable considering the amount of wonderful stuff they give us to craft for the others to enjoy. I have worked hard to build my shop and to make it a success and it is but the item limit that low would kill me. If they would just raise it I know I could cope and make it work. Please, talk to them and make them understand, it's not that we don't like them it's just that we feel they have no sense of the reality here. That we like to offer a wide and varied selection to our customers but that we understand their need to downsize the data base. Too bad they didn't keep up and start doing character purges since launch instead of waiting until October (more than a year after the game went live) to start them. But I think once they do, it will help in some small way with the problems they are having now.
Please Doc, try to explain this to them and understand, we just need someone to yell at and to hear us. And you are the only one who seems willing to do that. Thank you Doc for all you do and will do for us.
Uci
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:36 pm
#88
all I will say is if this goes through as a novice armorsmith tailor there will be no point to play sice I can't earn an income or get product out to the folk who want them
So SOE and you devs out there you ruin the fun of this game and my subscription check stops commin in you use the money I pay to make the game work... don't take mt money put it in your pocket then chop what I paid for to bits.
this goes through I walk on to the next game that will hopefully not be run by jackasses.
oh and if you think this isn't constructive, well SOE makingyour money is yourpoint if thats gone you wouldn't put on this service, well take away my charecters meens to make a living and like you I won't be around to give you jerks more.
Put my money I paid you to work, upgrading your service to handle the game or I will not be giving you any more
Stop ruining the FUN!!!!!!!
Uci
novice tailor
novice armorsmith
Hey Devs if you need to save space try limiting marksman on the shots they can take or docs on the buffs they can give.... oh but thats retarded, well so is limiting the ways n means of all artisans and craftin folk.
also total BS this hurts the little guy way more then the big master crafters.
we get no special orders only our vendors and the huge 25 bazaar slots we get keep us goin don't gutt our professions
STOP STOP
STOP STOP
Super_nice_jedi
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:45 pm
#89
Gealache wrote:
Super_nice_Jedi wrote:
A possible exploit could occur from this Merchant Nerf:
Also this nerf could also make people create loads of 14 day accounts, to gain 10 more lots to store their masses of items from vendors, resulting in loads of houses or factories popping up everywhere, and then no one will be able to drop an extractor. Heres the thing: Create a 14 day account or two or three or four etc, drop loads of factories/houses, give admin rightson the paying accounts char house/factories to the 14 day accounts, then those 14 day chars can movethe items from the main char to the 14 day accounts factories/harvesters, then in about 13 days later activate more 14 day accounts, and with the first batch of 14 day accounts move the items back to the main chars structures, and use the new 14 day accounts to move the stuff from the main chars structures to their new structures, then the first batch 14 day chars removes their structures and places them in storage in the main chars structures for storage until 13 days later when a third batch of 14 day accounts get created and so on.
A rather long winded process but to those who have spent a yaer crafting and to suddenly lose it all, it could very well be worth it, and especially as this Nerf will in essence "ruin" the game for the majority, so people won't care, but this will cause a huge strain on the SWG servers, uses up loads available names unnecessary, could turn the playing field into a mass factory/house wasteland, for those who don't remove their structures before the 14 days are up or those who can't be bothered to remove them, resulting in not much room to place harvesters/houses legititmately. Although they would go poof soon enough when the maintenace runs out, unless someone pays 50k credits on each of them. Also this would mean that Gamespot/Fileplanet will suddenly have a false mass increase in their userbase, which could end up putting a strain on their servers too.
Hell, all you would have to do is have the first set of 14 day accounts use /transferstructure to the second set of 14 day account. Voila!
Doesn't work. Transferring structures to a 14 day account doesn't work, its not permitted, nor does adding any of your "monthly charging" chars to the admin list, only the 14 day account char can be admin of any structure, until you buy a retail copy and that serial code. SOE have thought about this, but you can still create an infinite amount of 14 day accounts, therefore having as many lots as you like.
jadeous
Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:50 pm
#90
Where to begin..........firstly as everyone has stated, this is unacceptable(sorry late to the thread(s), in realization that SOE is inferior to blizzard(hence me quitting this game the millisecond WoW is released)
ive come up with the ultimate plan!
ive come up with the ultimate plan!1) Business 3 - 200 items per vendor
2) Business 4 - 300 items per vendor
3) Novice merchant -400 per vendor
4) Management 1- 500 items per vendor
5) Management2- 600 items per vendor
6) Management3- 700 items per vendor
7) Management4- 800 items per vendor
6) Master Merchant - 900 items per vendor
I find this to be acceptable. Currently being a doctor/master artisian, i find myself having around 1000 items x 3 vendors, and another with 600, and i feel that this is comfortably stocked. Please take this into consideration as i do have 4 accounts, love the game, but SOE is becoming VERY lazy/cheap in the foward progress of this game.
Respectfully
Jadeous
vabli
Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:07 pm
#91
im master merchant and all for the changes except the item cap. i have about 3000 items of looted weapon conponents/crafted weapon conponents/stacks of resources/crafted weapons. willl somebody please tell me where im gonna store all this?