Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchants and Suppliers
Indene
Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:25 pm
#79
joined42904 wrote:I would like the AS s who are not happy with the new vendor limits to disclose how many factories they presently run and whether or not those factories were cross-lotted.
Aw bummer. What about the rest of us? Don't we get to disclose this info? Well I am going to anyway. 1 account. 10 lots. 1 for house to live in a PC as a citizen. 1 for merchant tent where I keep 3 of my vendors. 8 that I harvest resources for my business. No cross server lot trades.
-Indene-
Indene
Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:43 pm
#80
Brilyn wrote:
.........Hey, if I could find *one* merchant who stocked all the resources I needed, I'd be pretty damn happy.Hell, if I could find *one* merchant who stocked *any* of the resources I needed, I'd be pretty damn ecstatic......
I think you mean that the other way. Anyway too bad you are not on my server. If you were just send me your list of resources and I will go harvest them and sell them too you direct. I can also place on vendor but someone else might buy the stock before you get it. Also if you need 10k of a resource and I only have 100k blocks (since the vendor doesn't allow you to buy just the quanity you wanted) you would be stuck with buying the block or contacting me by email anyway.
_indene-
Indene
Sat Aug 14, 2004 1:46 pm
#81
DirthNader wrote:
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
...If you wand to take on the resource vendors job, the crafting job, and the merchants job so to keep all the profit for you self that that ok, but you will not have as large a income compared to the workload as if you just sold in bulk for much less...Not always correct. For an established crafter, the additional workload to take on all three jobs versus crafting alone is minimal. There's rarely a resource I need anymore. Stocking takes minimal effort, and all of the "market research" and "advertising" is pretty much over for established crafters who pay attention to their customers. The amount of armor I can produce is limited by my own personal limit on how many factories I want sitting around at once. I'm usually sold out by the time the next run is done. Selling in bulk isn't going to let me produce more armor, so selling it wholesale certainly isn't going to bring in any more credits for me.
I think the problem in any pending crafter-merchant relationships they may be formed after the limits go in is that a dedicated merchant doesn't have anything to offer to an established crafter. A merchant "partner" for me would essentially be a glorified stock boy. While merchants do have something to offer to newer crafters, the newer crafters usually don't have the actual product to offer to the merchant.
Seems like quite the disconnect, no?
Message Edited by DirthNader on 08-13-2004 05:29 AM
Just be cause you don't have to work to maintain your buisness does not mean others don't have to work to build/maintain/expand theirs. Also it may not be "work" this is a game after all so why do you charge anything at all for your product?
-Indene-
lboyd1
Sat Aug 14, 2004 2:16 pm
#82
As a Master Merchant/Master Doctor, I run my business by using option 3.
I use two vendors for my own meds to sell.I have a medicine vendor and a stim pack vendor.
I also have a vendor set up for good deals that I find out and about and I mark them up and sell them as well.
Then I have two vendors set up for a Bio-Engineer that I sell for. One is a pet vendor the other is for her tissues/stims/vit. packs.
I then have one vendor set up for a Master Artisan (whom also is a tailor, but she uses her one vendor for that in the artisan tree.) ((At least until the patch.))
What the BE and the MA do, is they each have a factory that is dropped and they put stuff for me to pick up in the factory's input hopper. I gather the stuff up, then I proceed to go the vendor and open up my emails. The email tells me what they would normally sell the items for. I will then do my small mark up on them (I want the items to sell..not just sit there so I don't mark them up too much ... especialy the BE .. she's expensive lol.) {Sometimes if there is only a couple things to put up, instead of hte factory, they'll just offer them to the vendor for 1 credit.}
When something sales, I forward the email to them, then at the end of the week I will meet with them to tip the money to them. They also keep track of their sales. If something *poofs* from the vendor with no email from me about it... or something like that .. they'll ask .. and chances are, it's just that they've expired and I've not put them back up for sale yet.
This set up works failry well. The BE and I have been working together for a while .. probably about 3 months or so. The Master Artisan / Tailor (she's not a master yet) and our deals are fairly new.BUt everything works really well.
Yes, it would be nice if there was a better interface for option 3, but if can work .. it just involves some trust. 
Tarnak_Archvold
Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:17 pm
#83
Indene wrote:Unable to find a dictonary with the word "oligopolist". Are you sure it is a word and or not misspelled?
http://web.gc.cuny.edu/Economics/industrial.htm
An oligopolist, is a person who part of controlling an oliogopoly.
The word oliogopoly is not a everyday word, but one used in the study of economic systems. It is when a small number of suppliers are controlling the majority of the market. Kind of a step down from a monopoly, when one supplier is controlling the majority of the market.
Tarnak_Archvold
Sat Aug 14, 2004 3:41 pm
#84
Now where to begin with your post Brilyn...
If you do not wand to sell to a merchant, then do not. Nobody can force you to. Any crafter has the option of selling thair own production, either on the bazaar, on the business 3 vendor, or on merchant vendors.
The option of a merchant reselling a crafters production really only have relevance when the crafter have a higher production potential and a higher market positional then he has sales space for. In the cases of krayt enhanced weapons, full suits of high end composite and so on where the production time and resources put an limit on the amounts that can be produced Re-sale really is not a viable business model.
If you run a business like that then this debate really, do not affect your business in any way.
If you still cannot understand why a crafter should lower prices for a merchant, then lets turn the argument upside down... Why on earth should a merchant sell the wares of a crafter who do not have the ability him self, for nothing?
And even if credit is not the motivation for people choose a profession, credit can still motivate them to do something. After all anyone in the game needs credit right?
At least you have shown me why a vendor limit is so needed. If fact 110 items per vendor for a master merchant could be a very good thing for the economy, if for no other reason them to make people rethink why they became crafters.
If you do not wand to sell to a merchant, then do not. Nobody can force you to. Any crafter has the option of selling thair own production, either on the bazaar, on the business 3 vendor, or on merchant vendors.
The option of a merchant reselling a crafters production really only have relevance when the crafter have a higher production potential and a higher market positional then he has sales space for. In the cases of krayt enhanced weapons, full suits of high end composite and so on where the production time and resources put an limit on the amounts that can be produced Re-sale really is not a viable business model.
If you run a business like that then this debate really, do not affect your business in any way.
If you still cannot understand why a crafter should lower prices for a merchant, then lets turn the argument upside down... Why on earth should a merchant sell the wares of a crafter who do not have the ability him self, for nothing?
And even if credit is not the motivation for people choose a profession, credit can still motivate them to do something. After all anyone in the game needs credit right?
At least you have shown me why a vendor limit is so needed. If fact 110 items per vendor for a master merchant could be a very good thing for the economy, if for no other reason them to make people rethink why they became crafters.
Brilyn
Sat Aug 14, 2004 4:16 pm
#85
< If you do not wand to sell to a merchant, then do not. Nobody can force you to. Any crafter has the option of selling thair own production, either on the bazaar, on the business 3 vendor, or on merchant vendors. >
Now, see, that's the problem right there.
I have Novice Merchant. I have 2 vendors. I sell things via my vendors.
If Novice Merchant can only stock 60 items per vendor, that makes Novice Merchant complety useless. It means that I *don't* have the option of "selling my own production".
And I use the Bazaar quite heavily, mainly for 2-handed Curved Swords (seems to be a forgotton weapon on Starsider, though I sell about 5-10 a day via the bazaar).
< In the cases of krayt enhanced weapons, full suits of high end composite and so on where the production time and resources put an limit on the amounts that can be produced Re-sale really is not a viable business model.
If you run a business like that then this debate really, do not affect your business in any way. >
If you run a business like that then this debate really, do not affect your business in any way. >
Everytime I've mentioned selling stuff to a Merchant, I've spoken about "a crate of Vibroknucklers".
I happne to run *both* kinds of business. I have vendors for 'standard' weaponry, and I sell a lot of custom/high-end weaponry too.
< Why on earth should a merchant sell the wares of a crafter who do not have the ability him self, for nothing? >
For nothing? what kind of idiot is this Merchant we're discussing?
He buys the weapons at x, and sells at x+profit margin.
< If fact 110 items per vendor for a master merchant could be a very good thing for the economy, if for no other reason them to make people rethink why they became crafters.>
Um.... If you honestly think that..... Well, I'm going to not-flame at this point.
Sevardos
Sat Aug 14, 2004 6:21 pm
#86
I'm delusional? For the love of god you're thick. When reading my response, read it slowwww - maybe it will sink it.It seems your reading skills are very selective. Or maybe it's your comprehension skills.
Brilyn wrote:
< You're getting caught up in semantics. You can call it a discount from your retail price or you cancall it a wholesale price orcall it Bob for that matter.
Whatever you want to callit doesn'talter the fact that you will need to broker a deal with a merchant for a set price andthemerchant will then resell it. OR, you can choose to spend the points to be a merchant yourself and sell directly to the customer.>
No, you're confused.
I don't need to broker a deal with a merchant. I want to sell the items I make. I have a price that I sell them at.
- FINE. Who says you can't? Then spend the points, get Business 3 or Merchant and sell to your hearts content.
You seem to be under some sort of delusion that I *need* a merchant to make money.
- Explain to me where I said that you idiot. And I'm delusional?
Let me fix that: I don't.
However, I *like* to sell weapons. It's vindicates me, and tells me that I make a good weapon.
- Fine. Then spend the points to get Bus. 3 or Merchant
If a Merchant wants to buy *lots* of my weapons, so he can sell them on to make money: great.
I'm NOT seeing why I need to reduce the price of my weapons, so that the merchant can make MORE of a profit?
- Fine. Then spend the points to get Bus. 3 or Merchant and sell it at whatever price you want.
< If you're not selling it directly to the customer, then you need to sell it through a distributer / wholesaler. This is not a new / revolutionary concept. >
I'd like you to try a new/revolutionary concept: the *Merchant* is my customer. As are the people who *use* my weapons.
- Fine. Then spend the points to get Bus. 3 or Merchant and sell it at whatever price you want.
I'm not selling my weapons *through* anyone. I'm selling them *to* everyone.
- Fine. Then spend the points to get Bus. 3 or Merchant and sell it at whatever price you want. (notice a pattern here?)
< Doesn't change the fact though that crafters will now have to make a choice when it comes to selling their goods - which was the original concept from the beginning. >
Yes. My choice is:
Wait for a Merchant who wants to buy my products to find me, and pray he's not delusional.
- Do you even know what the word "delusional" means? Or this your new word for the day there sparky.
*or*
Just do custom work and auctions for millions at a time.
-OR, spend the points to get Bus. 3 or Merchant and sell it at whatever price you want. (this is sounding familiar)
Hmmmm....... Tough choice......
-The absolutely ONLY thing you said right in your entire response. Now go back and read my responses again. It's a skill-based system and it's all about choices.
No one is forcing you to sell through a Merchant. You want to sell directly to the customer, then spend the points.
One way or the other, it's going to cost something -either through profession points OR credits. Pick your choice.
Now read it again sparky - and read it slow. And look up the word delusional while you're at it.
Brilyn
Sat Aug 14, 2004 7:38 pm
#87
< For the love of god you're thick. >
Hey, Troll.
If *you* read *my* responses, you'll see that I *have* spent the points on Novice Merchant.
Yes, it's in the reponse *after* the one you simply flamed.
< Who says you can't? >
A limit of 60items per vendor atNovice Merchantsays I can't.
< No one is forcing you to sell through a Merchant. You want to sell directly to the customer, then spend the points. >
Actually, the item caps will force me to sell through a vendor if I wish to sell a *range* of weaponry.
And the Merchants apparently want me to reduce my prices in order to make *more* money for themselves.
Please, keep up.
Sevardos
Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:05 pm
#88
Brilyn wrote:
< For the love of god you're thick. >
Hey, Troll.
If *you* read *my* responses, you'll see that I *have* spent the points on Novice Merchant.
Yes, it's in the reponse *after* the one you simply flamed.
< Who says you can't? >
A limit of 60items per vendor atNovice Merchantsays I can't.
< No one is forcing you to sell through a Merchant. You want to sell directly to the customer, then spend the points. >
Actually, the item caps will force me to sell through a vendor if I wish to sell a *range* of weaponry.
And the Merchants apparently want me to reduce my prices in order to make *more* money for themselves.
Please, keep up.
Selective reading and comprehension again I see. Must be chronic.
I already identified and qualified the item limit position - but you ignored it and called me delusional (although you have no clue on the definition of the word). I replied, you attacked, I retaliated - simple as that. That makes me a troll? so be it. Guess that just makes you ... what?
And no one is forcing you to do a damn thing. Only in your small, warped little mind someone is forcing you to do anything.
You're a fool. And an ignorant fool at that - the worst kind.
Brilyn
Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:03 pm
#89
< Selective reading and comprehension again I see. Must be chronic. >
Let's pull back here a second. All *you're* doing is being derisive and abusive.
You have made points. You have then contradicted your *own* points.
Case in point:
"You're getting caught up in semantics. You can call it a discount from your retail price or you cancall it a wholesale price orcall it Bob for that matter."
Then:
"It's not a discount. It's a wholesale price. It's not an incentive. It's a distribution agreement. "
You have also said:
"Whatever you want to callit doesn'talter the fact that you will need to broker a deal with a merchant for a set price andthemerchant will then resell it."
Which is contradicted by:
"And no one is forcing you to do a damn thing."
And you Also said:
"Explain to me where I said that you idiot. And I'm delusional? "
Just to answer this bit, you said it here, despite the fact that I had quoted this in my response to you:
"Whatever you want to callit doesn'talter the fact that you will need to broker a deal with a merchant for a set price andthemerchant will then resell it."
If you don't even know what *you* are saying, how the heck are the rest of us supposed to deal with you?
Perhaps if you formed some coherant arguements, I wouldn't have this difficutly comprehending you.
Now, as for "Delusional", both myself and Dictionary.com define Delusional as:
"A false belief or opinion"
The "Delusion" that you are under is clearly shown here (I've emboldened the specific text, just so we're all on the same page)::
"Whatever you want to callit doesn'talter the fact that you will need to broker a deal with a merchant for a set price andthemerchant will then resell it.OR, you can choose to spend the points to be a merchant yourself and sell directly to the customer."
The only place you even come *close* to conceding anything is:
< Now, I don't disagree that the limits have a seriously negative impact to the Merchant profession as a whole and I have protested that aspect as strongly as the next person. Doesn't change the fact though that crafters will now have to make a choice when it comes to selling their goods - which was the original concept from the beginning. >
Now, just to get *you* back on track, the main debate in this thread is:
A bunch of people believe that I, as a crafter (when selling in bulk to them) should discount my prices by up to 20%.
I believe this is nonsensical, and I'm trying to ascertain a *reason* for this belief.
I apologise if you took the Delusional comment as a flame. It *initially* wasn't aimed at you, but you continued to spout irrelevant nonsense, like:
"Fine. Then spend the points to get Bus. 3 or Merchant"
Which I have repeatedly said is insufficient for anyone who wishes to actually sell things.
Yes, yes, I know you have "protested the item limits" too. If so, why the hell are you suggesting it as a solution, when the item limits render this as non-viable?
And finally:
as for:
"I replied, you attacked, I retaliated - simple as that. That makes me a troll?"
No.
What makes you a Troll is:
"For the love of god you're thick. When reading my response, read it slowwww - maybe it will sink it.It seems your reading skills are very selective. Or maybe it's your comprehension skills."
"Do you even know what the word "delusional" means? Or this your new word for the day there sparky."
"Now read it again sparky - and read it slow. And look up the word delusional while you're at it."
"Selective reading and comprehension again I see. Must be chronic."
"Only in your small, warped little mind someone is forcing you to do anything."
"You're a fool. And an ignorant fool at that - the worst kind."
If you want to have a constructive discussion, I'm all for it.
You need to do a couple things first:
Lose the flames.
Lose the condescension.
Lose the attitude.
Read *your* posts before declaring you didn't state something.
Attain some level of consistency and coherency.
Sevardos
Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:06 am
#90
VarnaxDespin wrote:
Thequestion is, why would a crafter/merchant offer a large discount to a merchant just because their a indepentant merchant?
- It's not a discount. It's a wholesale price. It's not an incentive. It's a distribution agreement. The crafters are the manufacturers and the merchants are the sales channels.
What does the crafter/merchant get out of this type of arrangement? The merchant has no more special abilty to move product then a Crafter/merchant does... (I am not talking about numbers)
- the Merchant has the sales channel (the vendors) to offer. The crafter has the choice to create their own sales channel; ie.,
If crafters are basically turned into crafting factories....ie make bulk items and sell to merchants at discount prices...the crafters business becomeslinear and rather dull,they have to work very hard to gather resources, learn their craft, keep updated on changes/resource spawns, crafting items until they get just the right result, etc..and for so doing get minimal return in the form of credits and enjoyment, while the merchant justs drops some money for the final product and thows it up on their vendor at a higher rate. What is the insentive for the crafter to do this or to even craft? Where now is the fun? Crafters already spend a great deal of time alone in their shops or running factories, now thats all they will do.. become player factories.. I dont know many, if any crafters who would enjoy that.
- Huh? How is this going to be any different. What you're decsribing is someone who doesn't like crafting. And if you don't like crafting, why are you doing it? It is a game as you say.
- How does a vendor change any of the things you just described? Does the crafter have to manufacture in bulk if he has a vendor? yes. Will crafters still be running factories if they have a vendor? yes.
If you want to control both ends of the sales cycle; manufacture and channel, then invest in the points and become a Merchant as well. Then you have it all. No one is saying you can't do both. You just need to be willing to make that choice.
I really don't understand why this concept of choice is so difficult to understand or accept. Walk outside your house, look at any business - every single one of them has some aspec of distribution and wholesale.
Now it's not possible to do real life comparisons with a game economy. But the concept of a distribution model is very simple and very easily implemented.
The only issue is that the Devs should have never allowed this exploit to go as long as it did. That's the real issue.
Indene
Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:32 am
#91
Gavvot wrote:
reasonable price and actual market price are 2 different things.
Correct but not for the reasons you implied. Reasonable is an opinion and has all the potential value thereof. Actual market price is what the item *just* sold for and fluctuates often over wide range over even a short time.
With a market price sky high far above a reasonable price, the demand should be reduced dramaticly.
But it is not what is happening because there is no other option.
The only other option is not buying it.
Without a droid, you can survive, and you can play the game.
Without armor, you can't.
Sure you can. I do it all the time. Even in combat I don't do buffs and I don't wear armor and I don't bother with food buffs. (Now you will note that I am an MCH so now all those who claim that my pets are not my armor nor my weapons can remember that
) As to demand being reduced it will be reduced when the price gets high enough. Sky high obviously isn't enough. Take it higher. Eventually you will find a point where demand will drop and equliburiam(sp) will set in. Oh and I almost forgot if the comp armor is so expensive then perhaps you should become an AS and enjoy the profit while chipping away at "Sky high".-Indene-