Merchant Archive
Thread: Vendor Poaching -- What is a VIABLE Solution?
DragonScout wrote:
This is funnyInstead of coming up with any reasonable arguments to the discussion -- which is pertinate to the sidetracked issue that was brought up by others -- you resort to name calling. Fairly typical for these boards.
Call me a troll. It doesn't really bother me, especially since if I went through all the posts and pointed out the very people calling me and p4samwise a troll, it would seem that they are more trollish with their flames and bashing and pointless posts about who is more of a troll. Oh, but wait, only people that can discuss things better than they do for the opposing viewpoint are trolls. Sorry.. I forgot about that.
Who is more a troll? the troll that discusses issues that aren't necessarily agreed upon by the masses? or the troll that goes out of his way to bash and smash and call anyone that disagrees with him a troll?
As far as BE and vendors go... it is a sucky issue. And as it looks now, it isn't going to get any easier. like the last poster said, you really just need to find a RL friend who will pick up merchant for you. Or wait until you can get the second character slot, open it, and set up a merchant on that. Otherwise, your options are pretty limited and require a loss in profits or a lot of trust.
It becomes trolling when you activly state for the boards that exploiting is the best way for the profession to go. All you seem to do is attempt to get rises off of the rest of us Merchants that attempt to defend SOE's point that the vendors coding is broken, which by all admissions that SOE has done point to that fact. It is FACT. The has been no disputing it, but you keep trolling away on these board saying that exploiting is the only way to go. You keep making this profession more and more useless. It's no wonder we attack you as virently as we do. You bring nothing to the table.
Did everyone forget that BE's can still heal people and harvest organic goods from kills? They aren't as screwed as everyone elsemake them as. Hell, all they need to do is put organic resources on the bazaar and they will make a killing, because that market is never going away as long as Docs still exist. Too bad that Artisan-based crafters aren't as lucky in their skill profile.
I think the merchant profession needs a lot of work as I have stated more than once. I don't think that merchants should be centered on vendors. If merchants had anything at all beyond vendors to actually DO as a profession, vendor poaching would not be the issue is currently is. The only reason anyone cares about vendor poaching is because it is the only thing merchants have. And that is fairly sad to me. If by suggesting that merchant needs a major revamp and needs to remove its primary focus from vendors and have it spread out amongst other enterprises, that is 'ruining' the profession, then yes, I support the ruination of the merchant profession.
Also, vendors are not 'broke'. They are working in a way that wasn't intended. There is a difference. If you need, I can explain it to you again.
And attack all you want. All it really does is show a lack of maturity and the inability to converse like adults. I don't need to attack you, or question your background or call you a troll to make my points. If you wish to discuss anything with me, wonderful -- as long as you bring logic, reason, and facts to the table with you to back your opinions.
BEs can make pet stims -- which anyone can use. If by healing people you are referring to their ability to use novice medic, that is fairly funny. Like the original poster said, he wanted to be a Good BE. with a master combat profession (which is fairly necessary. 4444 just isn't enough with some combat professions.) And have a vendor. Which is impossible. You end up being 1 skill point shy. And why on earth would a BE sell meat on the bazaar? A BE needs more meet than any other profession in the game that I can think of. It takes like 50k of meat just to grind BE to master. So yeah.. it is too bad that artisan based crafting professions can stick all their points into one basic profession, unlike BE which to get a vendor has to spread their points out amongst 4.
DragonScout wrote:
Ah, but I have not ever actively encouraged people to exploit. Answering their questions with polite responses is not telling them to go do something. There is a difference. Just because I do not throw a temper tantrum every time someone does something I don't agree with, doesn't mean I am encouraging them.
"Poached vendors are a better solution than that in my opinion." Those are your exact words in the following thread:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=merchant&message.id=31286
Are you denying you ever said those words. You think that this isnt an exploit? What is it that you smoke anyways, because I can see your mental capacity oozing out of your ear.
IAlso, vendors are not 'broke'. They are working in a way that wasn't intended. There is a difference. If you need, I can explain it to you again.
If it is not working as intended, but its working perfectly fine in your estimation, then why is it that the devs have it on their list of needed fixes? Again you go off like Bill Clinton saying how "is" really doesn't mean "is". It's lawyers like you that we need far less in this game.
And attack all you want. All it really does is show a lack of maturity and the inability to converse like adults. I don't need to attack you, or question your background or call you a troll to make my points. If you wish to discuss anything with me, wonderful -- as long as you bring logic, reason, and facts to the table with you to back your opinions.
I'd rather lack maturity than be in your position and lack intelligence. For so long my professions has been a wasteheap scavanged on by losers like you, and people have been trampling all over it. I here that the biggest **edit** that combat professions have now is thier animations of the moves they make? What happened to the truely broken professions? Your damn straight I'm angry as hell at people like you, because you bring nothing but spite to the table IN OUR OWN FORUM!!! Like me or hate me, I'll be spouting off about this bug until it goes away.
The fact that you can't see a truth when its right in front of you makes you one dense character, and ultimately irrelevent to the Merchant discussions.
BEs can make pet stims -- which anyone can use. If by healing people you are referring to their ability to use novice medic, that is fairly funny. Like the original poster said, he wanted to be a Good BE. with a master combat profession (which is fairly necessary. 4444 just isn't enough with some combat professions.) And have a vendor. Which is impossible. You end up being 1 skill point shy. And why on earth would a BE sell meat on the bazaar? A BE needs more meet than any other profession in the game that I can think of. It takes like 50k of meat just to grind BE to master. So yeah.. it is too bad that artisan based crafting professions can stick all their points into one basic profession, unlike BE which to get a vendor has to spread their points out amongst 4.
It's still a part of the template for BE, no matter how skilled they may be. The fact that they"need" mastery of a major combat professions speaks volumes to me that the efficiency to gather resources from carcasses are quite high with them. If they useto to grind BE, or if they use it to get rich, its still something that is increasing their standing in the game. Not all of us are the uber grinders that you are that try to level a profession as fast as you can. Some of us likt to balance out game play and even out our weatlh with our standing in a profession. Meat will still be the uber expensive resource it always has been.
Healing is still healing. With the uber armor and shield projectors that are out there today, even the smallest stim boost can keep the player fighting for years. So yes, healing does matter,
"but that sucks that you are buying another account mainly so you can have vendors. Poached vendors are a better solution than that in my opinion. But like p4samwise said... it is great if you look at it from SOE's perspective. More money for them from a character that likely won't be in the game that much. (not saying your wife won't play much.. just in general secondary accounts like these are not as played as the main ones -- yet they make SOE the same amount of money.)"
And yes, I do advocate vendor poaching over buying another account. Mules do NOTHING for this game. And yet that is something the merchant profession currently encourages. Mules and secondary accounts. I stand by what I said, in the context which I said it. In general though, no I do not support poached vendors, nor do I believe I have ever said that I encourage anyone else to poach vendors.
I never said the overall system was working fine. And I have said poached vendors should be fixed. But there is a difference between an error in the existing code, and a failure to ever write such code. It is obvious they never included code to remove vendors, probably because of the customer service nightmare it would have caused if legit vendors disappeared.
So you consider yourself intelligent because you bash and flame people? Interesting. And yet for all your claimed intelligence you cannot get across your point without attacking other people? hmmm. Okay then.
Unlike you seem to think, I actually do see the problem with vendor poaching. And yes, it should be fixed. But is that going to miraculously make merchant a better profession? no. It is just going to make it into even more of a mule profession. And that is why I completely disagree that it should be the primary fix or project the DEVs are working on. Which is what so many of you vendor poaching preachers don't seem to understand.
Also, just because you claim something to be the truth, doesn't make it so. Calling people names to back up your arguments as to why such a thing is the truth, doesn't make it so. Attacking a person in general to back up your arguments as to why such a thing is truth, doesn't make it so. It just proves that you do not know how to discuss things in a public forum, and also proves that the moderators need to be taking a more active role in these forums.
Ah. but he is asking for a viable solution for being a good BE -- which requires a master combat profession and as much mask scent as he can get, and have a vendor without being a vendor poacher. This should have been your chance to shine. Yet instead you bashed him. And your argument again is off topic. He isn't asking to make money from healing (which is a joke anyways.) and he isn't asking to make money from selling resources. He wants to be a Good BE with a vendor. And that really isn't something that can be accomplished as the system is now.
DragonScout wrote:
Balkstar, if you are going to quote me, quote me with reference to the context to which I was replying. Pretty sad tactic. And one you usually don't do. just for the record, the reply was in reference to someone buying a secondary account, and this was my entire reply:
"but that sucks that you are buying another account mainly so you can have vendors. Poached vendors are a better solution than that in my opinion. But like p4samwise said... it is great if you look at it from SOE's perspective. More money for them from a character that likely won't be in the game that much. (not saying your wife won't play much.. just in general secondary accounts like these are not as played as the main ones -- yet they make SOE the same amount of money.)"
And yes, I do advocate vendor poaching over buying another account. Mules do NOTHING for this game. And yet that is something the merchant profession currently encourages. Mules and secondary accounts. I stand by what I said, in the context which I said it. In general though, no I do not support poached vendors, nor do I believe I have ever said that I encourage anyone else to poach vendors.
/sarcactic on
You're right, Dragon. When an exploit is put into context it makes it so much better.
/sarcastic off
I should have also been doubleslicing too. It was increasing the speed and damage potential of all the weapons in the game. No one would ever argue to have more powerful weapons. Yeah, in context, exploiting is good too. Hmm...
/laugh hystarically
Sorry I could keep a straight face. The idea that exploiting the game in any capacity can be good for the game is truely laughable.
I never said the overall system was working fine. And I have said poached vendors should be fixed. But there is a difference between an error in the existing code, and a failure to ever write such code. It is obvious they never included code to remove vendors, probably because of the customer service nightmare it would have caused if legit vendors disappeared.
But you still haven't explained as to why SOE is still planning on fixing the code. It is on their hit list. You may be right in that they are trying to limit the damage by this public relations nightmare they have created for keeping this bug around for as long as they did, but PvP and PvE professions always get the love in every game. They are the most plentiful players on the game. Now that the vendor bug is staring the devs in the face, I'm sure they are now realizing the enormity of the errors that they have let propigate.
So you consider yourself intelligent because you bash and flame people? Interesting. And yet for all your claimed intelligence you cannot get across your point without attacking other people? hmmm. Okay then.
When you have been upset for so long as I have on the subject,I challenge you to be as dignified.
Unlike you seem to think, I actually do see the problem with vendor poaching. And yes, it should be fixed. But is that going to miraculously make merchant a better profession? no. It is just going to make it into even more of a mule profession. And that is why I completely disagree that it should be the primary fix or project the DEVs are working on. Which is what so many of you vendor poaching preachers don't seem to understand.
Also, just because you claim something to be the truth, doesn't make it so. Calling people names to back up your arguments as to why such a thing is the truth, doesn't make it so. Attacking a person in general to back up your arguments as to why such a thing is truth, doesn't make it so. It just proves that you do not know how to discuss things in a public forum, and also proves that the moderators need to be taking a more active role in these forums.
The Moderators have. They have destroyed threads and banned people for the game andfor directly attacking players without making reference to the game.You think they may not be a little sympathetic here to those of us fighting for thiscause? Remeber we are not the ones trolling here. We are the ones fighting people like you that give no respect to the skill set that SOE have laid out for the profession.
I'm sure SOE knows how bad this code has made it for the profession. When they hear, though,that the profession should either be dismantled or completely overhauled to not include a major tool that caused the creation of the profession in the first place, you think they wouldn't be pieved by it? There are many of us that still would like to follow SOE's vision of the profession, not yours and not Samwise's.
Ah. but he is asking for a viable solution for being a good BE -- which requires a master combat profession and as much mask scent as he can get, and have a vendor without being a vendor poacher. This should have been your chance to shine. Yet instead you bashed him. And your argument again is off topic. He isn't asking to make money from healing (which is a joke anyways.) and he isn't asking to make money from selling resources. He wants to be a Good BE with a vendor. And that really isn't something that can be accomplished as the system is now.
Did I say that he would make money from healing people in ahospital? No. He is much better off in fighting parties then an artisan-based crafter. When people look for players to add into their group, who would they rather have?A medic or an artisan? I don't think the choice is that tough. My point is that BE's have other skills that they can utilize that are not directly tied to the creation of enhanced creatures. Something that artisan-based crafters do not have directly availible to them.
In a way I envy BE's.I'd love to have scout skills in order to harvest organic material for items needed in certain Spices, but its something that my skill point allotement will not allow. But I'm not trying to cry for sympathy either,which is exactly what he is doing. We all have 250 skill points. Use them as best as you can.
DingoBoi wrote:
p4Samwise wrote:
Actually, the majority were in agreement that the 1000-use schematic exploit was good for the game. Which is why it became a feature at the last second instead of being fixed, as was planned.
(For those of you too young to remember: manufacturing schematics used to have a slider that went to 100 items, and were intended to be capped at that number, but you could type 1000 into the box and it'd accept it. This was obviously not intended behavior, and the devs were going to fix it, but ultimately decided, after a lot of pressure from crafters,that it'd be better to make 1000 the bona fide limit - hence, they upgraded1000-use schematicsfrom "exploit" to "feature", changing the slider to go to 1000. This is, of course, the exception rather than the rule, but it's not laughable to suggest that exploits are not inherently bad for a game.)
Your delusional logic baffles me. All exploits are inherently bad for the game. PERIOD. In this case and the example you cite, I shall break it down a bit for ya!
Crafter A knows this is an exploit, and as such, doesn't use it. He is stuck producing at the 100 schematic level but knows he is doing the right thing.
Crafter B knows this is an exploit and is a dirty scum exploiter who should have their intestines ripped out after being sqewered sqarely on stake for birds to poke out his eyes. Crafter B, uses this exploit to his advantage and gains AN INHERENT advantage over crafter A.
This exploit is bad for crafter A because he has to work much harder to keep up with crafter B.
Dirty scum exploiter wins and honest craftsman loses regardless of what the final decision was.
EXPLOIT IS EXPLOIT AND IS BAD MMMMKAY?
Sure, he has a disadvantage, but so does Crafter Z who decides that using factories at all is immoral, and that he's going to use Plumbum Iron to make his CDEF weapons.
p4Samwise wrote:
Crafter A sounds like a scrub to me.
I actually don't know of any Crafter A or Z people out there... I made 100-item schematics at first, believing that was the maximum, but that was only until a kindly master crafter explained to me that you could type in 1000 and it'd work just fine. I never talked to a single crafter who believed that the 1000-item schematics were "wrong" - they might have been a bug, but they made the game much more fun for all concerned, and there was no unfairness since they were equally available to anyone. Hence the outcry when we heard of the plans to abolish the 1000-item schematic. And obviously the devs agreed, because look were we are now.
If not for that "exploit", we might still be limited to 100 items, and crafting would have that much more tedium associated with it. I'd say that in this particular case, thebug was a good thing - likethe onerandom mutation out of a million that ends up improving a species' survivability.
Balkstar wrote:
One quick question: Show me the post from Garva, TH, or any other moderator or dev that state that the 1000 item limit on schematics was an unintended feature. I'm just curious to see it.
Holocron wrote:
There was a typo in the message, and a bug in the limit code for the input. It was always supposed to be 100, as evidenced by the slider.
What part of "it was always supposed to be 100" and "bug" are invisible? 
Message Edited by DingoBoi on 07-02-2004 11:57 PM