Merchant Archive
Thread: This nerf is NEEDED!!
joined42904
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:13 pm
#66
Sigrun,
I am by no means rich, but my present MAS bankroll is over 24M with far more than that in resources. I think I'm doing ok. That doesn't mean that oligopolies aren't a problem.
Sigrun
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:18 pm
#67
joined42904 wrote:
Sigrun,
I am by no means rich, but my present MAS bankroll is over 24M with far more than that in resources. I think I'm doing ok. That doesn't mean that oligopolies aren't a problem.
If Oligopolies are a problem, then we also need to nerf the force-sensitive pink fairies that fly out ofAFK Dancers'asses and wreak havoc on Jedi and Combat Medics both...
Oh... wait.... 
Come on. You challenged us in another thread to prove that Oligopolies don't exist. I answered your challenge. They don't exist.
Move on already. Your big word of the month is getting really stale.
SirMixMaster
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:33 pm
#68
mattpost wrote:
Oh yeah and has anyone agreed with this guy yet?
Do you not get the hint dude. NO ONE
AND I MEAN NO ONE WANTS THIS NERF
I agree with him. I think more people may agree than you think but like me they are/were afraid to get nuked off the forums. And as far as having a RL and not wanting to load your vendor 3-5 times a week, FINE, DONT. After all SWG is only game. If your vendor runs out theSWG Vendor Police arent going to come knocking on your door. If you can't keep up with the new demands of your vendor then you can go out of business and someone else will step in and fill your shoes.
Crimsonsplat
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:36 pm
#69
Gotti_Is_Back wrote:
Two master crafting professions and Master merchant is going to be Very dificult to pull off. It will cause specialization, and Im preparing for that.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight. Now tell me something.
How do you Master two professions (Artisan and elite), then Master Merchant, AND have enough combat skills left over to do those Janta missions you suggested?
Answer: You don't
Architect, Artisan, 4444 merchant, and punching bag for Jabba's swoop gangs, that's me! I was going to cope by 'sploiting the Merchant profession and regaining my combat skills, but so much for that, it's being dealt with.
joined42904
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:40 pm
#70
You answered with some names on one server I've never been to.
I don't think that proves anything about any other server.
In fact, I don't think you named more than 5 well known crafters for some professions.
Other folks came into the thread and said oligopolies were a problem on their servers. Examples of oligopolies were given by people other than me. You choose to basically ignore these posts because you happen to disagree with the point I made.
Some markets on Kauri are dominated by a few well known crafters. I don't wish our docs ill at all, but thus far I know only of Lexy, Cronon (just left), D, and (hopeful entrant) Oi-yan as docs from the trade boards. There are a few minor crafters but most of them don't post vendor waypoints. That's a heck of a market for instance when Lexy goes and buys D out of certain product lines (and this happened at least once). No offense to Lexy whom I like. Solution: None of these crafters can have more than 660 items at once. Lexy wouldn't have done that imo if the caps were in place.
I'm sure other folks would like to try their hands at doc, but that isn't going to be easy if everyone buys from the established crafters. Now is it?
There are maybe 4 known WS s on my server (Keetha just left). Epidimick, Sushi, and I can't really name the others.
The AS market is more vibrant. Very few top-of-the-line crafters. That part for PVP armor is an oligopoly. But I'm in a second tier group that's plenty good enough and very vibrant. No one would really notice the difference between our armor and theirs for PVE. But PVP is another matter...and you know that some folks just have to have "the best."
There are plenty of master artisans. That market is no oligopoly.
Architect seems a vibrant market to me though only a few folks have well stocked vendors. I haven't figured out why more folks don't stock 20 of each kind of heavy harvester on their vendors. But they just don't. The ones who do tend to be above median price. I'm fortunate to know an architect.
Droid engineer is also a vibrant market with most folks willing to do special order droids for under 100k. And a droid is easily worth that since they don't decay or die on you. I'd rather special order my droids than go to the vendors. The vendors are mostly BH droids and Kaboom droids.
A surprising number of tailors run their own shops on Kauri with quite a selection. And I actually would be fine with exempting tailor clothing from the item limit altogether...if all you have is tailored clothing on the vendor...the vendor can have unlimited items so long as all are priced under 500k or some such. I can't think of any tailors who mind that another tailor has a shop.
If the tailors would just think about it though.... Not having a shop is actually good for them economically. Most shops are way underpriced anyway. I think tailors would make more offering their personal services making wardrobes for people. And I think given their typical personalities...they do it because they love it...they would enjoy it more this way also. This so-called nerf is really good for tailors if they would just accept that they can't have real clothing shops and adjust their marketing strategies.
Sigrun
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:48 pm
#71
joined42904 wrote:
You answered with some names on one server I've never been to.
I don't think that proves anything about any other server.
In fact, I don't think you named more than 5 well known crafters for some professions.
Other folks came into the thread and said oligopolies were a problem on their servers. Examples of oligopolies were given by people other than me. You choose to basically ignore these posts because you happen to disagree with the point I made.
Some markets on Kauri are dominated by a few well known crafters. I don't wish our docs ill at all, but thus far I know only of Lexy, Cronon (just left), D, and (hopeful entrant) Oi-yan as docs from the trade boards. There are a few minor crafters but most of them don't post vendor waypoints. That's a heck of a market for instance when Lexy goes and buys D out of certain product lines (and this happened at least once). No offense to Lexy whom I like. Solution: None of these crafters can have more than 660 items at once. Lexy wouldn't have done that imo if the caps were in place.
I'm sure other folks would like to try their hands at doc, but that isn't going to be easy if everyone buys from the established crafters. Now is it?
There are maybe 4 known WS s on my server (Keetha just left). Epidimick, Sushi, and I can't really name the others.
The AS market is more vibrant. Very few top-of-the-line crafters. That part for PVP armor is an oligopoly. But I'm in a second tier group that's plenty good enough and very vibrant. No one would really notice the difference between our armor and theirs for PVE. But PVP is another matter...and you know that some folks just have to have "the best."
There are plenty of master artisans. That market is no oligopoly.
Architect seems a vibrant market to me though only a few folks have well stocked vendors. I haven't figured out why more folks don't stock 20 of each kind of heavy harvester on their vendors. But they just don't. The ones who do tend to be above median price. I'm fortunate to know an architect.
Droid engineer is also a vibrant market with most folks willing to do special order droids for under 100k. And a droid is easily worth that since they don't decay or die on you. I'd rather special order my droids than go to the vendors. The vendors are mostly BH droids and Kaboom droids.
A surprising number of tailors run their own shops on Kauri with quite a selection. And I actually would be fine with exempting tailor clothing from the item limit altogether...if all you have is tailored clothing on the vendor...the vendor can have unlimited items so long as all are priced under 500k or some such. I can't think of any tailors who mind that another tailor has a shop.
If the tailors would just think about it though.... Not having a shop is actually good for them economically. Most shops are way underpriced anyway. I think tailors would make more offering their personal services making wardrobes for people. And I think given their typical personalities...they do it because they love it...they would enjoy it more this way also. This so-called nerf is really good for tailors if they would just accept that they can't have real clothing shops and adjust their marketing strategies.
Actually, that is untrue on multiple levels.
First, I can rattle off dozens of weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, and doctors on my server. The simple fact that no Oligopoly exists on ONE server means the game rules DO NOT FORCE OR EVEN ENCOURAGE OLIGOPOLIES TO EXIST.
Second, nobody on ANY thread has given a shred of real evidence of any oligopoly existing. You see, if you knew the definition of an oligopoly and its impact on an economy, you would come to realize that they put artificial downward pressure on other, similar businesses to the point that those businesses cease to be profitable.
But that CANNOT happen in SW:G. There is nothing that any one business or even group of businesses can do to force others like them to lower their prices below the point of profitability.
Please... go away. Learn a new Big Word. Come back when you have one.
I might suggest becoming familiar with the word "Socialism" and then looking into its history here on Earth for the past 50-60 years, most especially the impact that it had on those who it was supposed to "serve".
joined42904
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:49 pm
#72
Sigrun,
There is nothing unfair about the devs' item limits. It applies to everyone equally. Every account gets the same limits at the same merchant skills.
I personally think that a market with these limits is "fair." And I also think that it is not "heavily controlled." There is just a simple limit on how many items any one player on a single account can have on his or her vendors at a time. Fairly straightforward and with many workarounds. Enough workarounds that it isn't really "heavily controlled."
Sigrun
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:55 pm
#73
joined42904 wrote:
Sigrun,
There is nothing unfair about the devs' item limits. It applies to everyone equally. Every account gets the same limits at the same merchant skills.
I personally think that a market with these limits is "fair." And I also think that it is not "heavily controlled." There is just a simple limit on how many items any one player on a single account can have on his or her vendors at a time. Fairly straightforward and with many workarounds. Enough workarounds that it isn't really "heavily controlled."
It is not fair, but it is equal. There is a difference.
It is heavily controlled. The absence of limits is not controlled. Limits around 10-20x the currently proposed ones are moderately controlled. Limits around 50x the currently proposedones are lightly controlled.
But still, if you say that equal limits are fair, what do you think is unfair (and thus promotes Oligopoly) about everyone having NO limits? I mean, that's equal too, isn't it?
You keep talking yourself in circles.
SirMixMaster
Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:00 pm
#74
Sigrun wrote:
SirMixMaster wrote:
mattpost wrote:
Oh yeah and has anyone agreed with this guy yet?
Do you not get the hint dude. NO ONE
AND I MEAN NO ONE WANTS THIS NERF
I agree with him. I think more people may agree than you think but like me they are/were afraid to get nuked off the forums. And as far as having a RL and not wanting to load your vendor 3-5 times a week, FINE, DONT. After all SWG is only game. If your vendor runs out theSWG Vendor Police arent going to come knocking on your door. If you can't keep up with the new demands of your vendor then you can go out of business and someone else will step in and fill your shoes.
So you're saying that the people who have the advantage in SW:G business should be the ones who can be at the keyboard the most?
No what im saying is it is ONLY A GAME. Don't get so bent out of shape about a GAME.
I thought that sort of player was the target for the combat classes... Artisans (and Entertainers) are targeted at a more casual audience.
????
Besides, just because you can log in and fill a vendor doesn't mean you have any clue about producing high quality merchandise OR giving good customer service.
**edit** do you know about me or my business from my statement. At one time I was master Merchant / Master Chef for over 6 months. I ran7 factories 24/7. 3 months after I quit I still get people asking me to come back to Chefing becasue I had the best vendor around with the best selection and price. So don't talk **edit** to me about quailty, selection or customer service when you have no idea what your talking about. ie if your going to cut me down, then stick to my arguments.
This is nothing but a crutch to help those who can't compete in a fair market to compete in a heavily controlled one.
How is this a fair market? New crafters cant compete with Long term established crafters with 5000+ items on their vendors. Now long term crafters will (and should) have an advantage in quality by virtue of collecting better resources over time. But they shouldnt get the double advantage of being able to swamp the market with thousands of goods as well. Personally I think SOE is trying to open the market back upto new crafters and / or casual crafters.
joined42904
Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:06 pm
#75
Sigrun,
Both are equal. And both would be "fair" in an egalitarian sense.
The unlimited option permits some crafters to acquire a dominant market share.
The Limit of 110 per vendor restricts the market share of the dominant crafters and allows non-dominant crafters to have more customers, thereby making the game more fun for the majority of crafters who aren't dominant crafters or oligopolists. This is a game. I like for regular crafters to have fun. So I support the new limits.
BoberFett
Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:27 pm
#76
Perhaps we should cap damage at around 110, otherwise experienced combat characters keep noobs out of PvP.
joined42904
Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:41 pm
#77
I'm not even going to address Boberfett. Because what he is talking about is skill sets. I am talking about competition between and among crafters with the exact same skill point distributions.
Here's a definition of oligopoly...every bit as valid as yours...which you probably won't like:
An oligopoly is a market form in whicha market is dominated by a small number of sellers (oligopolists). Because there are few participants in this type of market, each oligopolist is aware of the actions of the others. Oligopolistic markets are characterised by interactivity. The decisions of one firm influence, and are influenced by, the decisions of other firms. Strategic planning by ologopolists always involves taking into account the likely responses of the other market participants.
I think this really describes what is going on in SWG. Certain markets are DOMINATED by a SMALL NUMBER of SELLERS whom I am calling OLIGOPOLISTS.
The way we get to this market form is of course different in a game than in a traditional capitalist form. Here, folks go to the best stocked vendors because they really hate seeing unstocked vendors.
The devs are giving casual gamers an opportunity to at some points in time be as well stocked as the current oligopolists. And I'm all in favor of that. 
Zanholo
Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:54 pm
#78
oh go away already....there is no dominance....there is PLENTY of room for all crafters right now...if some people's stuff isn't selling....perhaps they should make something else or better of what they are making or maybe GET YOUR VENDOR OFF OF LOK! 
New candidate for quote of the week:
"Perhaps we should cap damage at around 110, otherwise experienced combat characters keep noobs out of PvP."
I LIKE IT!!
Skill sets, my butt.... that dude over therecan shoot better than I and he gets to loot = unfair advantage.
I DEMAND that ALL combat professions have their damage nerfed so I CAN COMPETE! Ludicrous? So, is your half-baked argument...
Message Edited by Zanholo on 08-11-2004 03:01 PM