Merchant Archive
Thread: This nerf is NEEDED!!
Gotti_Is_Back
Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:48 pm
#53
Oh yeah and has anyone agreed with this guy yet?
Do you not get the hint dude. NO ONE
AND I MEAN NO ONE WANTS THIS NERF
Who am I? I am one person that sees some good to it. Because everyone else disagrees with you, doesnt make it wrong. I have seen a lot of great posts that have come up with some very valid compromises. I may be the only person who has the COURAGE to see the argument from the other side. This Nerf/Fix effects me too. But I am NOT GOING TO LET IT RUIN THE GAME!!!!! I will not stand by and let people take shots at the DEV's without adding a few words of my own. If you only argument hinges on how many people agree with me, then let that be the only leg you have to stand on. I feel that I cannot win this argument no matter what simply because of the emotion people have brought to this debate.
Gotti_Is_Back
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:08 pm
#54
OK, so how is a dedicated crafter, with 0 combat skills supposed to do a janta mission? These are the people who would buy the resorces,remember?
Are you saying that crafters cant be fighters or become fighters? No it's not fair to force them, but that option is available if this is an issue for them. Plus they buy the resources and make items, then sell the resources. Now they have money. I see merchants start with nothing, sit in town and advertise without vendors and get sells, enough to start a business. People buy resources cause there is an end product, something they can sell, your argument assumes that they wont make a healthy profit off their purchase.
The issue here is not if you will do it, but the potential for it goes up more. But word gets around, people will figure out who's scamming quick enough. a minor issue among the rest.
Agreed, minor. The suggestion to be able to look into bags has been brought up.A quick fix.
Agreed, even though my personal focus is not a reseller, features such as a consignment process would be great. But until that day, I've played MMORPG's too long to trust somone I don't know. And besides, they'll need to specialize in my goods to do me any good, and what are they supposed to do if they craft their own goods? this limit nerf isn't good here either, in fact, it hurts the reseller even more than the crafter/merchant.
People will be hurt. Trust will become a valued commodity. People will have to work together. Cant anyone see past their objections and find anything beneficial to this? I started this thread because I tried to stay positive, all the negative feedback has started to wear on me.
Barking is used in our mall to indicate when the vendors have been restocked, and can be used many different ways. Don't think it's bad for everyone, just because you don't use it.
It's not that I dont use it. I use it to say when my vendors have been restocked as you mention above. I posted that earlier. But there is no reason that someone should have to tell me what's on their vendor if it's labeled properly. And let's face it, that's basically all people bark. Some clever phrase that makes us think they are an articulate human who cares about peoples purchasing habits. A sign of creativity. Fine let it be. I like creativity. But if someone is going to complain about vendor barking as a reason why this patch sucks, then DONT USE IT.
You mean the grand 25 slots offered on the bazar? the issue with tailors is not the price, but the number of items that are avaliable, figuring colors, BE enhancments, making outfits.. the list goes on.
Look, im just trying to quench as many arguments as I can with what I have. I stand the sole voice of opposition. Although I would never say with a full heart that the bazzar will solve ANY problem, I will use it to at least present that I am thinking of solutions, other than trying to bark at the devs to make it all go away.
Gotti_Is_Back
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:21 pm
#55
Btw, my offer stands. Anyone who is going to quit, can give me their acct. Since SOE is so nice as to make it illegal for me to purchase it from you, I can only take it if it is free. I know you wont do this, because you think im an A**HOLE for supporting something that will hurt more than it will help. I am not a utilitarian (greatest good for the greatest number), I believe what's always best for the most people is not always what's best for thegame. If for some reason this caused the game to die, then I would say...STOP. But outside of hokey slipery slopes and hasty generalizations noone has made a strong argument for, "how MORE than 1/2 the people will quit if this goes through" (if i were a utilitarian). I believe that people are NOT going to quit as they threaten to do. Some will. I see some talk about Worlds of Warcraft as if it's a solution. Go ahead. They will have similar issues eventually. They will make similar changes that will P*SS you off. THERE IS NO PERFECT MMORPG!!
temptres
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:42 pm
#56
I have to agree a low cap will just hurt us.
I am a tailor on my alt and to offer a selection of clothing is ness.
other wise i get hit wit orders and then can help save a base.
my in game time is limited so i try to structure my time.
i love crafting and i love fighting.
to nerf the amount of items means less time getting resources.less time getting to fight more time having to fill venders and that means i have to buy resources rather then get them my self so my prices will triple.
and putting things in bags will not work for a tailor, or a arct,
plus there saying they need to reduce the data base how will a pack pack full of stuff times 50 reduce its the same amount but in packs.
they should do 300 on the vender for artisain
500 novice merchant per vender
and 100 extrafor each box up to master and thats per vender.
that would keep peace with ones.
vabli
Wed Aug 11, 2004 3:20 am
#57
Gotti_Is_Back wrote:
Oh yeah and has anyone agreed with this guy yet?
Do you not get the hint dude. NO ONE
AND I MEAN NO ONE WANTS THIS NERF
Who am I? I am one person that sees some good to it. Because everyone else disagrees with you, doesnt make it wrong. I have seen a lot of great posts that have come up with some very valid compromises. I may be the only person who has the COURAGE to see the argument from the other side. This Nerf/Fix effects me too. But I am NOT GOING TO LET IT RUIN THE GAME!!!!! I will not stand by and let people take shots at the DEV's without adding a few words of my own. If you only argument hinges on how many people agree with me, then let that be the only leg you have to stand on. I feel that I cannot win this argument no matter what simply because of the emotion people have brought to this debate.
lLOL! u are off your rocker. the needs of the many far out weigh the needs of the few
MoonGuy75
Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:04 am
#58
Are you on crack Gotti or just never learned anything about how economics works? Or maybe you are just a lapdog for those morons who run this game. Good luck trying to find anything you need, and if you are able to, the prices will be so high that you may reconsider purchasing it. Either way, I'm going to cancel my five accounts tomorrow; and any respectable Merchant would do the same. They are like the villiage idiots trying to fix something; the more they try to "fix" it, the more it gets broken.
Thank you SWG Staff, you are effectively making another Ultima Online! WTG idiots....
Grinan
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:16 am
#59
Gotti_Is_Back, you obviously,
a) have never been in a crafting profession where the resources needed are very specific, where you have to harvest obnoxious amounts of the resource to get you through until the next spawn, and where do you store that?.
b) don't care if you ever get the furniture that you want, because you'll be running your butt off in game trying to find whatever it was you were looking for and then only finding it in bulk. So you like buying a crate of 15 couches when you only need one? Then when you do get one from the crate and your vendors are maxed, where do you store the crate until you have room to place it on a vendor?
c) have forgotten what it's like to be a new player with 250 credits and no way to run missions from the MO, because you have absolutely nothing but a stone knife to defend yourself. Good luck getting a non-CH level pet for that 250.
d) can't run a very successful merchant operation with only one location, what was it you said about specific vendors? Better to spread yourself around and make it worth your while to go from Rori or Lok to Dantooine just to keep your vendor instock. Not to mention that you may/might have the rest of your vendors placed yeah by yaw around the system.
I will only speak for myself in the architect profession which I have done since February, and I started SWG in January.All the 'elite' furniture that you see, requires specific types of aluminum, copper and low-grade ore. The usual spawn rate is 2.5 to 4 months apart on these, so yes, you have a harvester farm that rivals the size of Theed going to get as much as you can for a concentration that is usually no higher than the mid 20%. (I have spent from server start to shutdown looking for/chasing after a higher concentration and never found one.)
"No, sorry I dont agree. I do janta missions for 26k each and make almost 600k per hour. I am nothing special, master rifleman or TKA can do it quite fast. Any fighting profession can do it if they have a level 9 non-ch pet with high kenetic resistance. AND THERE IS STILL A BAZZAR FOR LOW AMMT STUFF. My original message said 20k, 50k, 100k. Almost anyone can scrape together 20k worth of any item...unless it's some super rare material that sells for 50cpu...then that item should be auctioned on the forums anyway. THERE are OTHER options." Gotti_Is_Back
If you have forgotten what it was like when you were a new player, you get 250 credits a survival knife, a Maroj melon and the clothes on your back to get you by. You have absolutely no skills to fight with or earn a living or enough credits to even buy the material you need to craft your way to a positive cash flow. So the running missions at 26K idea has merit where? Good luck finding a non-CH level pet for 250 credits with the HAM that you specified. And relying on the charity of others is more often than not, an option. So to recap and summarize, you would like to see a new player purchase a non-CH level pet with decent HAM, and get to a non-player starter planet where you can make 26K a mission for 250 credits. If you can show me a valid way to do this, I'll show you a rancor with exceptional hygiene.
"I wouldnt know anything about this...because I make sure that everyone trusts me from the very begining. I dont have one ounce of negative feedback, because I name my bags as to the exact contents (ie 30 Melee Powerups crates MIND/MAX/MIN). In some peoples case yes, you are right, but maybe we shouldnt trust these people till they earn it. AND yes I too want to be able to view the contents of bags." - Gotti_Is_Back
Obviously not. I wouldn't trust your sales any further than Jabba can throw himself against a wall. Just because that's what's on the name of the bag doesn't mean that's what is in it. So you're losing out on new customers because none of them will trust that you are an honest person. Hmmm... I've seen honest faces that come with fangs.
"Again, I might be the most honest person you will find. People can trust me. I once got ripped off of 25 million credits worth of buffs because I too trust people...in the end I know what it's like to be ripped off and therefore I WONT do it to others. If you cant trust the people around you...i really feel sorry for you. It's part of the interaction for the game. No prepay. I simply look through all of my confirmation emails and add up all the money that that vendor brings in. Give them their cut, then let it go.AND yes I too want a consignment feature. I will post on the forums to add this feature. I hope that you too will offer this as a possible solution to make things easier."
Again, I've seen honest faces come with fangs, and I know this information the first time I deal with you how/why? I feel sorry for you, you've really gotten the shaft quite a bit with this philosophy in life.
"I dont let people bark in my malls anyway. Unless you are barking the last time your vendor was stocked. But with the new system that wont be a problem, cause we all know they will always be stocked to some extent. Barking was a great idea for cute little blurbs. But if you name your vendor appropriately, there is no reason you should need it. It's one of the extra little things that makes the game nice, but it is not needed. Any serious merchant who names their vendors right (as specific as possible) knows that this doesnt increase sales, simply because they have to be in your house for them to even see the barking, and by that time they are probably there to buy something anyway."
Then what is the point of having a merchant profession? You obviously don't operate out of tents where the vendor barks to any player that is within 20 meters. Who might not have been there to buy, or were just passing through. You know why most gas station/convenience stores place items on their counters? It's called an impulse buy and a way to bump profit margin for them. I will repeat - then what is the point of having a merchant profession?
"I agree with some of the critisms of this patch, but I take a hard stand against people who only whine (not necessarily you), but 90% of these people who are whining to hear their own voice. It has convinced me that SWG players are professional whiners and simply thrive for new things to whine about.
If you would bother to take the time to truly read through the posts on this thread alone, you are only responding to be in the 'right' and hear your own self speak.
As far as tailors, most of their items dont sell for more than 6000. They already do and should more, use the bazzar. Assuming that all 25 items that you can place on the vendor for 6000 credits sell in a day's time wouldn't even pay for the amount needed to buy your items, nothing like cutting your nose off to spite your face They have that advantage that some of us dont, simply because our items are too expensive. Architects are the ones who are truely hurt, cause they sell tons of furniture that no one wants to buy in crates. Other than houses, crates of deeds are a great idea. I'll take you up on this offer, want tobuy 25 small Tatooine houses, style 2? I never need just one harvester...Always need 10. Nope, going tohave to tie those lots up in houses so I can store all the ore that I need, did I mention that it takes 8000 units of ore total to make a swoop? (6400 steel, 1400 copper/aluminum) Noit doesnt help noobs, but they can contact the architect, Options are available. It doesnt make the game bad, it simply changes it. I suppose, but onlyif you like a bourgeois economic system. And you do like your house with furniture, right? Wonder where I can store all that ore and still have harvesters so you can have furniture and structures?
Btw, any of you whiners who are going to quit, please tell me, im looking to pick up some accts for free. Since you cant buy or sell accts and since you dont want your acct anymore then you wont object to me simply taking it over.
You won't have the time. You're going to have to spend it all stocking your vendors and trying to find what you what you need/want to buy. You must enjoy shopping, that's the only conclusion I can come to, in regards to your idea of specific vendors. You will find more specific vendors that have factory crates of items, when you only need one of that item, so where do you propose to place that crate of 14 couches now that you only needed one? Most architect crates are in 10s for components, 15 for furniture, and 25s for high end components. Why should it be necessary to have to run everywhere to 2 or more vendors, when I can find what I want on one? My time is more valuable than that. (see my question as to how to make a legitimate living playing the game)
"I truely am sorry. I dont need money either, but it is the concern of many people. It seems to be the root of the entire group of people who are complaining. Outside of people who use their vendors for storing mass amts of useless items that 1 person in 200 is going to want. But if you really are a merchant for EVERYONE ELSE then you wont mind doing the extra work it will require to keep EVERYONE ELSE happy. This means more work for you, and since it is, 'one of the few things thats keeping me IN this f@#$ed over game' it will probably strengthen that." - Gotti_Is_Back
Do me a favor, speak for yourself, and you alone. Don't assume that your opinions or concerns are mine. Thank you.
Nor does the amount of complaining by a few, outweigh the desires of the many. Again, please tell me how to legitimately make money for playing the game for longer than the 4 - 5 hours needed to keep up with my factories, harvesters, and vendors.
"/agree /agree /agree I do not in any way shape or form think they have completely thought this one out. And this lame excuse that they are doing it to break up monopolies is plain horse crap. You are sooooo right. And that is why I like this patch. It will give people whoWANT to be serious crafters and merchants higher market share. And rightfully so.
Why do people have to be Crafters and Merchants? Maybe it's about time that the crafters focus on crafting and less on business? I'll sell your goods for you...on consignment or I'll buy them from you and sell them for what I think is fair. Now the tailor has nothing to worry about. Their items may have to come down in price for me to buy them, or I'll just charge more. Either way there is aequal sum gain by the transaction." - Gotti_Is_Back
But earlier you stated, "I truely am sorry. I dont need money either, but it is the concern of many people. It seems to be the root of the entire group of people who are complaining. Outside of people who use their vendors for storing mass amts of useless items that 1 person in 200 is going to want. But if you really are a merchant for EVERYONE ELSE then you wont mind doing the extra work it will require to keep EVERYONE ELSE happy." , and that you were a merchant for the people and had no personal gain involved for any of this? So, either you have no personal gain involved and no hidden agenda, or you truly are in this patch for yourself alone. This only further strengthens my belief that you never have been a crafter of any sort, nor are you aware of the repercussions this will inherently have on new players.
Most everything that goes into a Heavy Mineral Harvester requires that the components come from a factory crate. This ties back into the current spawn rate for ore that has high quality and the amount that come out in a factory crate. Yes, you can only make what you need to make XYZ amount of harvesters, again, however, you would much rather spend your time running to a factory than to your vendor to restock it with what you just made.
"Very true. I give you that. However This isntgoing to happen till january. I personally will bide my time. But again, that isnt so much a bad change...it might bring cohesion back into the game. Everyone wants to find the easiest way to solo everything. Maybe people will stop being so isolated and actually enjoy the MASSIVLY MULTIPLAYER part of the game."
So instead of enjoying the game and it's complexity, intricacy, and overall 'wow' factor the way that it was intended (sorry I play a game for fun and relaxation not to make it a full time job, if you know a way to do this and make money legitimately, please let me know), you would much rather spend 4 to 5 hours just running everywhere to find an item that you want, or to place items on your vendor because you have sold out. Remember you are, according to your post, placing factory crates and higher units/item on your vendors, and probably selling, I would guess, at more than 250 credits a shot. So where, may I ask, would you find time to do anything fun, and still maintain a life outside of the game? Then this will truly rend asunder the cohesiveness that is in place now. I won't have time to hunt with my friends/guildies, I'll be too busy doing what you are, shopping for my things to place in my house or having to run to keep up with vendor sales.
Sorry, not my idea of a good time, friends and camaraderie make the game cohesive, interaction with fellow players make a game cohesive. Me, spending all of my time stocking, crafting, and in general playing the role of vendor maintenance man means that I can't contribute on a personal level beyond those items that I've created or sold. Which is why we have vendors to begin with so we don't have to sell everything ourselves. There isn't any cohesiveness in that.
"this is needed b/c the database that holds all the items in the game is getting a little out of hand, in additon to the poor servers which have to power the vendors. basically the database has been growing exponentially too fast, so they are looking for ways to reduce database growth and speed it up. they are alos concerned about monopolies as well as it being hard for a new person to break into a market (which it should be... RL 9 out of 10 small business fail)" - ockeew.
Ockeew, If SOE is having performance issues, they need to upgrade their servers.If they can't afford to upgrade, why should we afford to play the game. The technology for this is not thatcostly anymore. I strongly disagree with your concepts, this would put the server economy into a trickle down economic state because of the cost of items on the vendors.
So as a final comment to this post, My questions posed to you Gotti_Is_Back, are above, I appreciate your reply and respect your opinions as another player, regardless how misguided I believe they are. I feel that Ejai, and Breatai and more than a few others have some really good ideas. But what I see people suggesting is that the cap be either profession specific, mainly that merchant has unlimited control, or that they are not taking into account that some of us, are nothing but crafting professions. As a master artisan yes, 300 items per vendor would be plenty, but as architect, on one vendor alone with nothing but architect items, I currently have 759 (just logged in to check and make sure that there was truth in that statement.).
I would be more than willing to accept 600 items per vendor, I do not have more than 3600 items for sale at any one time, the lowest I could possibly accept is 500. This should prove to be an exciting topic to follow in the coming months.
PhoenixOrion
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:25 am
#60
The nerf is indeed necessary.
BUT - the small and meager limit they are putting up. 50. 75. 100. even slightly 200 items. To me is unacceptable. One more Vendor is one more item taking up space in the house. If you are using the same house as storage for your vendor items, that in itself is a clutter.
I still personally stand by my idea that 300-500 items should be the amount on vendors per box.
Zanholo
Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:38 am
#61
Wait!!! Another stupidest post of the day winner!!!!
Fool, try being a master at any two crafting professions and see if you could deal with and service your customers needs with 660 limit.
Gotti_Is_Back
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:02 pm
#62
Gotti_Is_Back, you obviously,
a) have never been in a crafting profession where the resources needed are very specific, where you have to harvest obnoxious amounts of the resource to get you through until the next spawn, and where do you store that?.
You are obviously wrong. I started being a doc 1 month after release. An architech soon after that. I play this game for the thrill of crafting. I like most people store my raw goods in factories. I have soooo many raw goods that I have split them up in to organic, inorganic, chemical, gas sections in my factory lots. I can store 10 million units in any given factory....and it's totally worth the 1500 credits a day it costs to maintain them.
b) don't care if you ever get the furniture that you want, because you'll be running your butt off in game trying to find whatever it was you were looking for and then only finding it in bulk. So you like buying a crate of 15 couches when you only need one? Then when you do get one from the crate and your vendors are maxed, where do you store the crate until you have room to place it on a vendor?
You are right. I dont give a rats A** about furniture. I am a merchant. The way my house looks has NO bearing on whether I make quality items. I decorate my house with rare loot items. How many times do you go into a house because you want to /sit on some of their furniture? If sitting down served some purpose other than faster regen times (which are pointless since everyone's buffed now adays, and rarely do you need to enter a house to /sit). All you furniture crafters deserve to go out of business like the tailors. Furniture and Clothing should be Loot items. This would make them more special. Furniture should also have a decay time, so people have to buy it constantly. Clothing should disapear when it gets to 0 condition. The fact I only have to buy one or two wardrobes makes your profession worthless. Take a seat next to the image designers.
c) have forgotten what it's like to be a new player with 250 credits and no way to run missions from the MO, because you have absolutely nothing but a stone knife to defend yourself. Good luck getting a non-CH level pet for that 250.
OH please! You obviously havent started a new char lately. Begging at the starport will get you enough credits to buy a swoop. 1. Take delivery missions till you have 1000 credits (20 small missions). Kill some gnorts till you have your first level. Gain first fighting level, get first special attack. Do missions for 600-800 each till you have enough money to buy a slightly better gun (2500-6000 off any bazzar). Use new gun to get better missions. Save up 10k to get buffed. Use 3 hours of immortality to gaine 30k. Use spare 10k to get buffed again and other 20k to buy non-ch pet level 9. Gurrcat 60% kenetic res. Come back tommorow and repeat above steps till gurrcat is fully grown. OR COME FIND ME AND TELL ME YOU ARE A NEW PLAYER, and I will do all I can to set you up. I even have a new player vendor that has bags of stuff (blasters, crafting supplies, low level meds, small house) all in one bag. It's free. They can have it. When people see a new player they direct them to my vendor.
d) can't run a very successful merchant operation with only one location, what was it you said about specific vendors? Better to spread yourself around and make it worth your while to go from Rori or Lok to Dantooine just to keep your vendor instock. Not to mention that you may/might have the rest of your vendors placed yeah by yaw around the system.
The spreading of vendors is the biggest problem facing players today. If their were more central locations to buy EVERYTHING you need, the players would never have to run very far. They might even join your city because they know that they can buy everything they need when they travel home. I personally want to live in the city that has the best mall. YOU MERCHANTS ARE ONLY THINKING OF YOURSELVES. Whine whine whine about how it's more work for you. "I" wont be able to make as much money. "I" am only a casual gamer. "I" "I" "I". Get over it. What makes me sick is how you all assume that your problems will spill over onto other people. You speak like children....well if "I" dont get my way....others will suffer my wrath....I'll just quit.... Like I said earlier, nothing but slippery slopes and hasty generalizations assuming that the market will crash because we cant LIVE WITHOUT YOUR PRODUCTS. People like me will use your suffering to make a profit. SO quit,the business will come to us who will find a way to manage.
Your post was very long and in depth and I really do not have the strength anymore to fight off this resistance. I will write the rest in caps because it is simply the synopsys to this entire issue. I AM A CRAFTER, I HAVE BEEN A CRAFTER FROM THE BEGINING. I HAVE SEEN THE GOOD AND THE BAD. ALTHOUGH THIS IS A NERF, I WILL FIND A WAY TO USE IT TO MY ADVANTAGE. I WILL CONTINUE TO BE PROFITABLE NO MATTER WHAT IT TAKES. ANY OF YOU PSUEDO PLAYERS WHO WANT TO QUIT, GOOD, GET OUT, I WILL SUCEED WHERE YOU FAIL. IM SO SICK OF COMPLAINERS.
Grinan you set me straight, everything you said was insightful, i believe you, i agree with you, all of you are right, i simply have no idea what im talking about. Im high on crack and have a 4th grade education. I live with my parents and hope someday I will have my GED...But until then im gonna go read some developers notes and bomb them for being idiots. Oh wait, I dont know how to read...didnt get to that in my special ed classes.
To all those who quit. Dont let the door hit you in the a**.
SirMixMaster
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:03 pm
#63
This nerf is NEEDED!!
/totally agree
I'm glad someone braver than me finally came out and said it. (/ducks head and dons fire retardent clothing)
Gotti_Is_Back
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:05 pm
#64
and gotti....seems like you already got mad and quit once...
I did...Someone stole 25 million credits worth of buffs from me because they wanted to pull off a heist. And I walked right into it. At the exact same time, people were hashing me for paying 500cpu for avain meat at a time when we had nothing great. It was a lot for me to handle. I came back because I cooled down.
Oh btw before I was playing at my work, where playing could have lost me my job if they had walked in. This ate at my nerves...was never able to play with sound for that reason and always at late hours of the night. I have a comp at home now.
Sigrun
Wed Aug 11, 2004 1:10 pm
#65
Gotti_Is_Back wrote:
and gotti....seems like you already got mad and quit once...
I did...Someone stole 25 million credits worth of buffs from me because they wanted to pull off a heist. And I walked right into it. At the exact same time, people were hashing me for paying 500cpu for avain meat at a time when we had nothing great. It was a lot for me to handle. I came back because I cooled down.
Oh btw before I was playing at my work, where playing could have lost me my job if they had walked in. This ate at my nerves...was never able to play with sound for that reason and always at late hours of the night. I have a comp at home now.
Yeah... you have the ability to think clearly. Based on this informatoin alone, I'm certain you're absolutely accurate that this nerf is very good for SW:G overall. I can't imagine why the devs would have backed off of it 5 months ago.
Mmm Hmm...
/sigh