Merchant Archive
Thread: Backpacks on Vendors
DocSavag wrote:
There is no answer to "I hate this game" Why WOULD you play a game you hate??? I don't get that..
You're absolutely right : there is no answer to that.
Andas a whole, more MERCHANTS are happy with these changes then unhappy. That means that you didyour job well. Sure, some complain, and they have the right to say so. But you can't please all people, not even all merchants.
There is one good suggestion made in all the bru-ha above and that is the possibility to re-crate full pieces of armor.My guess is that re-crating won't be programmed easily, but it surely a good suggestion to make to the Armoursmith correspondent.
I didn't make the decision that backpacks would count as their volume. The decision isn't surprising nor does it upset me personally because it just makes sense. You dont' have item limits then multiply them by 50..that isn't logical if they are trying to limit the number of items you can have. I accept that many of you were counting on that to get around the limits and have even reported that back to the devs but that will hardly be a surprise to them.
The purpose of this post was to inform you of the change so that when it gets implemented you won't be surprised by it.
And I'm sorry but I am NOT going to apologize for telling someone not to play the game if they HATE it. Thats just a no brainer, if you are playing a game you are supposed to be having fun and relaxing. If it no longer supplies happiness and relaxation STOP DOING IT at least for a while until you can enjoy it again. Thats just common sense. And its my personal opinion which I am entitled to have.
SeraphinAnnie wrote:
Sevardos wrote:
It's not just about storage. This will put a severe limit on how you package your products for sale. You may not sell products that require bundling - but there are many crafts and services that do.
The only backpacks on my vendors at 9999999 are for signage - that's all. I used to price them (signage) at 1K credits but they kept on being bought.
The only person I can see the bundling effect are Armorsmiths. But even if you sell suits with what 8 pieces total, that's still approx 444 suits you can have stocked at one time, and that includes the backpack. That's plenty. Even if you sell 100 suits a week, that's still enough stock for a month. I've never even seen 1 armorsmith stock over 200 suits at once, much less over 400. I have however, seen people with 200-300 storage backpacks on their vendors.
Honestly, I very much doubt that most people are upset about this because of being able to provide less bundling. I'd say 90% of those upset use their vendors for storage. I understand that to a degree considering there are no other acceptable forms of mass storage available at this time. However, in light of the fact that many people make do without using their factories or vendors as storage, I refuse to believe that it "can't" be done. It's just that people don't want to.
If this gets rid of some of the vendors marked "Resources" that has 1 actual resource for sale on it, and 200 storage packs, then I'm all for it. Coupled with the caps and other vendor changes, it will make shopping a much better experience instead of the chore it is now.
You've obviously not read the whole thread or the ones I've already posted. I already mentioned that this will put me over and it's not because of bloody storage.
Simply because it doesn't affect you, does not mean it's 'ok'. Didn't realize you were the template Dev's were using for this decision.
My vendors are always stocked. ALWAYS. I have a lot of items. I bundle buffpacks. I bundle furniture sets. I bundle various other meds. The number one product I bundle though is buffpacks. Why do I do it? Because it makes shopping for my customers easier.
Please take off the blinders next time before making this grand statements. And if you doubt what I say, I have proof by simply visiting my shop in Bria.
DocSavag wrote:
And I'm sorry but I am NOT going to apologize for telling someone not to play the game if they HATE it. Thats just a no brainer, if you are playing a game you are supposed to be having fun and relaxing. If it no longer supplies happiness and relaxation STOP DOING IT at least for a while until you can enjoy it again. Thats just common sense. And its my personal opinion which I am entitled to have.
It's the *shrug* that angers some folks Doc. Add to the the fact that players upset over all these massive changes feel that whoever is making these decisions is also giving a *shrug* - or one mighty single digit salute.
Players don't play - or post because it's 'just a game'. They play and post because they WANT to enjoy the experience, an experience that many have invested over a year of their lives into building, things that they WANT to continue to pay for the priveledge of continuing to pay to enjoy. Sometimes dev's forget that players feel investment that goes far past money expended - they spent their time, they spent their trust that decisions will be made fairly and concerns addressed, that the PLAYER'S best interest will be protected.
Telling folks that their concerns aren't justified is a nonstarter. Whether or not the dev's feel those concerns are valid, you have literally thousands of players saying - I NEED - there must be some reason for that beyond "well, the players are just greedy they want everything'. That is not an invalid statement, but add bunker mentality to it and you get the situation we have today - brushing off legitimate concerns that the SYSTEM AS DESIGNED, created - and then changing the means players deal with the systems without explanation or changing the core reasons for those needs is NOT in the player's best interest.
MMO's are about change, and some can never deal with change of any kind - that however, does not give blanket authority in the eyes of the player's to changing things at a massive core level without insuring that the basic dynamics of gameplay remain or they are given alternative methods to deal with the changes. The closer you get to foundation issues - of which distribution/creation and storage of goods is about as basic as you can get in a totally PC driven economy, is about as foundation as you can get - the more people it affects, the more impact it will have on EVERYONE whether they realize it or not.
The ostrich approach just doesn't work, especiallyon foundation issues. Player's need to know EXACTLY why - why was this change needed, what are their options, how is this going to be better for their gameplay experience. They need to feel like the developers understand their own gameplay mechanics from the gameplayexperience perspectiveto understand their needs and positions on issues.
Database needs trimmed - less lag may be the exact correct answer - but the DB isn't the PLAYER's problem and to tell them in effect - 'this is your fault - you are going to pay for it instead of us' isn't the answer. That is exactly what that answer feels like to a player, it's no small wonder many resent it. These forums are brimming with alternatives that just might work to achieve BOTH better gameplay - and a smaller DB, win/win scenarios. No discussion, no reasons why those alternatives aren't being considered, no attempt whatsoever for player 'buyin' so at the very LEAST they have some understanding of why their gameplay which they WERE happy with is being dashed to pieces and they are left to try to reassemble an enjoyable experience all on their own. No reasoning at all why or how this might be better for the player's experience.
And all this time they are hiding behind - well, we didn't intend for it to work that way. Sorry - 13 months from release that is simply an unacceptable answer from the player's point of view. Add to this it's wellknown - or at least popular urban legend - all their time is being spent on the next big shiny - and the last 13 months have been spent neglecting player needs in the ORIGINAL product in favor of the next box to bring in 50.00, yeah, folks are justifiably upset.
If they want to disassemble the foundation of the game, they need to do it at the very least in a proper order. It would appear to me they are trying to take a game built around mass production and mass consumption to a smaller handcrafted model. Fine, I recommended that myself back in beta - but do it in a coordinated fashion, starting at the base of resources, up thru the schematics, up thru the factories THEN to distribution - not top down. And tell folks WHY they are changing a massive paradigm of gameplay. If mistakes were made - admit them. If better alternatives that will achieve better results for everyone are proposed - at least consider them with a bit of discussion. Keeping folks in the dark only pisses them off.
These changes scream 'panic mode', or at the very least - pure reaction mode - neither of which usually result in good judgement or decisions. You are in the terrible position of being their public face, I don't envy you one bit or blame you for their braindead decisions.
Players feeling neglected is bad enough, changes of this nature feel procecutorial in nature and result in a massive loss confidence, which ultimately leads to massive votes of nonconfidence - i.e., players leave.
*shrug* is not the way to get people sympathetic to your cause and retain customers.
DocSavag wrote:
I already know the answer. You aren't supposed to have more than 25 items up for sale on the Bazaar at anyone time. Using backpacks to "get around that" isn't really supported. It works now becuse they've been too busy to pay much attention to it.
Sevardos wrote:
You've obviously not read the whole thread or the ones I've already posted. I already mentioned that this will put me over and it's not because of bloody storage.
Simply because it doesn't affect you, does not mean it's 'ok'. Didn't realize you were the template Dev's were using for this decision.
My vendors are always stocked. ALWAYS. I have a lot of items. I bundle buffpacks. I bundle furniture sets. I bundle various other meds. The number one product I bundle though is buffpacks. Why do I do it? Because it makes shopping for my customers easier.
Please take off the blinders next time before making this grand statements. And if you doubt what I say, I have proof by simply visiting my shop in Bria.
Uh, I read the whole thread. Obviously, you didn't. Or you would know that I didn't even say that. Go back and read my last post, on this page.
Do ya think that you could pay attention to the fact that I'm not talking about only YOU? Geesh, as good as the other guy, throwing out general sweeping derogatory comments and assumptions on things you know nothing about. And practice what you preach. Had you read my last post instead of nit-picking one from the previous page, that wasn't even directed at you, yeah.
I'll clarify. I did NOT say that this won't effect people. I probably should of written that I saw it effecting armorsmiths "the most" instead of implying that they were the only ones, although I doubt it would of made any different since some of you are out to attack whoever you can that disagrees no matter what anyways.
ONCE AGAIN, I did NOT....NOT say that this doesn't effect me. I never said it was "OK" for everyone. I said "I like the changes". Period. My opinion. Since you don't know me, or my template, or what I do, using less assumption and undue sarcasm would be a good idea.
I'm not attacking your vendors or your business, so you can back down. Geesh. Really. The new limits on bundling are not my fault. Just because I like the idea, doesn't make it my fault either.
At this point, it's certainly not looking like *I'm* the one wearing blinders. I am very much aware of how this effects people. I just disagree that even a merchant who legitimately uses bundling is going to be out of business. You'll just have to pick and choose, just like all of us. Maybe spend less energy blindly attacking people just because they have a different opinion than you.
Slipstrm wrote:
If that is true that we will get space for 4000 items then I appologize for the over-reaction. After a bad day of grinding profession number 29 and destroying my comp chest plate and weapon while trying to repair them I read that and was about ready to scream. lol
Yes, a Master Merchant can have that many items on one vendor. How many Master Merchants do You know that have more that a couple of hundred items on ANY vendor?
I am NOT a Merchant at all, just a Master Artisan / Master Architect and I have over 2000 items. And VERY few of those are in packs. Those that I put in packs are furniture sets that I chose to sell as a 'kit'. I don't know about most of you, but I, as a crafter, am being left hanging by a Very weak thread that has already started to fray. Keep an eye out on SCylla server. When this thing goes live I will have no choice but to dump on to the bazaar. Should be interesting.
Spryte [Haven] - Haven - Corellia - Scylla
Master Artisan / Master Architect
Dabbler
DocSavag wrote:
This isn't a job...if it were I would have quit it a long time ago the hours suck and the pay is worse.
I didn't make the decision that backpacks would count as their volume. The decision isn't surprising nor does it upset me personally because it just makes sense. You dont' have item limits then multiply them by 50..that isn't logical if they are trying to limit the number of items you can have. I accept that many of you were counting on that to get around the limits and have even reported that back to the devs but that will hardly be a surprise to them.
The purpose of this post was to inform you of the change so that when it gets implemented you won't be surprised by it.
And I'm sorry but I am NOT going to apologize for telling someone not to play the game if they HATE it. Thats just a no brainer, if you are playing a game you are supposed to be having fun and relaxing. If it no longer supplies happiness and relaxation STOP DOING IT at least for a while until you can enjoy it again. Thats just common sense. And its my personal opinion which I am entitled to have.
Its terrible that people feel they need to take out their frustrations on you, being only a messenger on this matter. Not only that, you had the foresight to check into a possible issue that would have otherwise blindsighted people later on. Thus, this issue can be worked over by the community now instead of later when its already in test.
Its too bad Asuph feels like you are somehow responsible for this being put into play, hasn't he ever heard the phrase, "Don't shoot the messenger"?
I personally think that DocSavag has done his part in helping the community, he's communicated with the devs, brought info that would have otherwise been a little bit suprising to light sooner, and really disagree with how people seem to be placing all this blame on him.
DocSavag wrote:
This isn't a job...if it were I would have quit it a long time ago the hours suck and the pay is worse.
For what it's worth, I do appreciate the hell you moderators go through. It does say something about SOEs' busniess model that they have to resort to volunteers to man a service that they should have employees for. I hope you (the moderators) are getting Something from SOE in exchange for the time and effortyou provide. (And yes, you Are entitled to your opinion. What are they going to do? Fire you?
)
I didn't make the decision that backpacks would count as their volume. The decision isn't surprising nor does it upset me personally because it just makes sense. You dont' have item limits then multiply them by 50..that isn't logical if they are trying to limit the number of items you can have. I accept that many of you were counting on that to get around the limits and have even reported that back to the devs but that will hardly be a surprise to them.
Doc, Thequestions, after reading so many posts, that I have Not seen answered, are:
Why are Item Limits an issue?
What is the reason for putting a cap on vendor item counts?
I am surprised after trolling the boards that I have not seen these questions answered. If they have been answered, then I apologize for for being redundant. But since I am about to be buried in my vendor contents I'd at least like to know why.
The purpose of this post was to inform you of the change so that when it gets implemented you won't be surprised by it.
The boards are a great idea. The only problem is that not everyone knows about them and not all of those that do have the time to surf them.
And I'm sorry but I am NOT going to apologize for telling someone not to play the game if they HATE it. Thats just a no brainer, if you are playing a game you are supposed to be having fun and relaxing. If it no longer supplies happiness and relaxation STOP DOING IT at least for a while until you can enjoy it again. Thats just common sense. And its my personal opinion which I am entitled to have.
And as for 'STOP DOING IT', well, a good number of our cities residents are doing just that. Many have already declared that they are not renewing and dispersing their posessions to their friends. Most of us have signed up to test WISH when it comes out. Several have already scoped out EQ2 and WoW. As for why some people play this game, well, they do it because they have friends on it and they like the socialization. But like any gathering place, if it gets to be of a bother to Go there to gather then they look for someplace else to meet.
Asuph wrote:Your job is to makethe merchant class better. That is all you are here for. You get the merchant's concerns to the devs.If you were here to diminish our opinions, or belittle somones thoughts,I would say you are doing great. However, you arent here to do that.You are not doing your job. You are making merchants angry. You arehinting that people should leave the game. You dont even make good coffee.I dont suggest you put this on your resume.The door is ------------> that way...
I make excellent coffee actually.