Merchant Archive
Thread: Do away with Merchant, but let Crafters keep it
Smurfwalker wrote:
No.
The only way Architects make money - indeed their only purpose in the game is to craft goods. The only way they can make money therefore is to sell their goods. The only way they can sell their goods (especially for instance if they are new to a crafting profession) - is to have merchant.
That's why I have over 1.5 million credits from decorating houses, right?
I make my own furniture and charge for its creation and placement. No vendor involved. My vendors just sell my chef wares, which I could easily sell on the bazaar or out of one vending machine vendor.
I still say Merchant is a worthwhile profession and should not be tainted or removed.
I invested the other skill points so I not only have vendors, I have more vendors, good looking vendors, that can talk and show up on the map and save me money through fee reductions and cheaper bazaar costs. When you add in that merchant not only includes vendors, but maintenance discounts, bazaar discounts, premium auctions, the ability to place a vendor on the map, to make a vendor talk and look like how you want it, you're adding in more variables that make it necessary to be a whole other profession.
Jabba_Lackey wrote:
I posted a reply earlier but apparently I hit the wrong button or closed out too soon, and it was not posted, so allow me to try again.
First off let me respond to a few things and clariy some of my points.
First, someone earlier scolded me and called me "thickheaded" for bringing this thread up in the merchant forum. I simply thought "what a better place to go to discuss issues dealing with merchant." Was I wrong?
Second, someone mentioned that BE's and CM's and Doctors would be left out and angry without the ability to have vendors. For starters Bio Engineer is an elite crafting profession as far as I am concerned, so they would be included in the group of professions that would have these merchant skills and abilities. Next doctors, like all other non-crafting professions do not rely soley on crafting to make a living. Doctors make good money off of Buffing and Healing individuals, and all doctors are perfectly able to make their own goods if need be. Thirdly Combat Medics are rarely JUST combat medics, they generally are coupled with elite combat professions which garner large profits from big money missions.
Why should crafters who NEED vendors and advertising to selltheir products, be punished with the deduction of skill points they could use to actually have fun with other professions? Though it would be nice to let everyone have a vendor, not everyone NEEDS a vendor the way crafters do. How about this, keep a version of merchant for all those selling loot, meds, etc. But allow us crafters the abilities we need to make a profit, using the same skill points as everyone else. All I'm saying is allow crafters to make money, with the same amount of skill points thatother professions use. I love to craft and run my shop, but does that mean I can do nothing else? Perhaps I'd like to at least do some damage in battles, or be able to try new professions.
If the game is supposed to be based on a player economy, why is the base for that economy being punished Skill Point wisefor doing what it does?
Like I said above, if you really, really, really feel this is the way merchant *should* be (if it can even be called that inyour proposal), then send a PM to TH or another Dev,and present your arguments. Who knows, maybe they'll see something in your logic that we don't. Posting here and trying to convince the rest of us merchants that our skill points are being "wasted" and our profession "useless" is really not going to get you anywhere.
Dingo, the merchant trainer didn't issue me an egg-launcher. Got a spare?
Smurfwalker wrote:
BountyBlunter wrote:
Ok, at least I know where I stand.. You want to have two of my professions removed from the game because in your eyes they serve no purpose, and are a waste of developers time.. Did you think about the time that I have wasted, and many others, actually gaining these Master elite skills just to have you lobby for them to be removed ? No.. You didn't. It's never going to happen because if it were to happen I would have to be compensated for my time, there is no real way to quantify how much time AND MONEY I have spent in gaining these skills so therefore I don't think there is any way to give me compensation for this time AND MONEY which I, and other people with these skills, would consider satisfactory .
Please refernece previous nerfs to the Creature Handler, Pistoleer professon and others that have become towards useless.
Yeah, and... Was there actually a point to this statement ? Nerfing a profession because the player base isconstantly crying about how they are overpowered or just a general Dev Nerf intended or not, and removing a profession from the game are two completelydifferent things..
This game is not entirely about you.
Actually, bud, I didn't say it was entirely about me.. What I saidis that YOU are saying that YOU want to remove two professions which I have mastered and YOU want them re-distributed among the player base...How is that saying that it's all about me, sounds like I am just getting the shortend of the stick because YOU want to kill off things that I spent time on?
That is the way the skills are set out, there are choices to be made. Just because people want more skills, it does not mean the developers should bow down to the "Gimme Gimme Gimme!" mentality.
I don't have a gimme gimme gimme attitude. I'm saying if I felt the investment in sp was actually worth it, I wouldn't be here. I don't feel the investment in merchant sp is fair on crafters.
Good god... How many times.. YOU DON'T NEED MERCHANT TO SELL GOODS! Personally I don't care what you think is fair or not when you think that removing two professions which I spent months mastering is a great idea.. That is NOT fair.. How is it fair to give someone all of the merchant skills which I took the time to get when they didn't even bother and leave me in a position where I may need to gain new levels to get those skills back.
But you said up there (points up) that most crafters are invested in Artisan and thus have a vendor anyway...? So they CAN sell their wares, they just cant use the perks like planetary advertising which is in the Merchant profession.. Hence the fact people want this profession removed and re-distributed for thier own personal gain at my, and other peoples, expense.
No, it's not at your expense, and this is hardly about your "investment" anyway (considering all one has to do to get merchant xp is to set up vendors and wait it out, I don't feel that you can claim it was hard work anyway).
Why isn't it at my expense ? ... Just No , isn't a very good description of why in my eyes.
Your argument is interesting in that you claim that it's at "your expense", yet then say that it would be for my "personal gain". You can't claim that I'm being selfish when you're saying exactly the same thing.
I spent the SP, time and money on getting these skills andthey didn't. I don't want them to have my skills, they want them... That is ME being selfish.. What ?...
I second that ! Fix the vendor bug which allows people to keep our vendors without the invested SP. Come to think of it take the top 5 / 10 issues on all 32 professional boards and implement those fixes / features .. Let's not dedicated developers time to removing two professions from the game which, to be honest, is probably impossible at this late stage without causing major issues.
I'll agree it's unlikely - but my position remains that there are too many professions, which means none get the developers' time they deserve.
It's Rubbish.. My opinion of your opinion.
I don't have to explain it, it's quite simple.. You need to invest 63sp into an elite profession.. As I said, "probably" evey merchant here will be firing back at you. I didn't realise you were a merchant because you want to destroy merchant... Strange how I came to that conclusion really.
No. Leaving it the way it is is as damaging as changing it. This is what you fail to realise - there are people (many crafters) who are upset at the merchant requiremtns to craft, are those people less important than you now?
Again... YOU DONT NEED MERCHANT TO SELL GOODS!
Another question could be why are those people so much more important than me that they get to take one of my professions and keep it for themselves..?
Ok, given that I will get the skills rolled into master chef lets examine something else
I am not a master chef currently, what I said was a final skillset, I am currently 0/1/3/4 and will be working my way up to master eventually, in a few months perhaps. I am a master merchant however! So, what would happen if this magical change happened to me right now ? I would end up losing 5 tents in our village center holding 3 vendors with alot of expensive stuff on them because my master merchant was removed and placed as an elite crafting skill ! Unacceptable.
Perhaps it's as unacceptable as nerfing creature handlers and pistoleers and others. If it's in the interests of the game, then it should be done.
Not even a close comparison... Meh..
Lets say of course, hypathetically, that I am already master Chef and Master Merchant.. How would you compensate me for the time I have spent building up my Merchant (and ranger) Skillset ? I could have spent all those weeks, and all those credits doing something else with my SP a benefit given to all people not already invested in merchant but invested as a master crafter as soon as the change takes effect. That gives them an advantage over myself when I had clearly taken the time and invested the SP to progress my skillset within the bounds of the system which is being changed. Unacceptable.
Tough. Happened with many other professions and they moved on in the interests of the game.
Nice reasoning , have you ever considered workin customer services ?
Also could you please point out to me when exactly a profession was removed from the game and re-distributed in the past...? What that profession was, and why they did it (I know there is one but youchose to loosely bind your argument with something totally different so I'm not giving you any hints) I fail to see how your comparison to creature handler and pistoleer nerfs here works.
If either the first or second situation did occur, how would I be compensated in cash by SOE for the money which I paid to them in order to level up my character in two professions which have been removed from the game ? People playing past this event would not have to invest the time and money into doing these things as I did, plus I would have to spend time gaining other levels with my two characters which may already be in place on people who never even invested 1SP into the skills.. Unacceptable.
SOE constantly change the game to make it better. They are not liable if you disagree with their decisions.
Exactly my point! They won't... Which is unacceptable.
I can tell you one thing, if you asked this to Thunderheart.. I don't think you would get an "After JTL/CB" answer.. You would get a "No."
If I ever see a post by TH giving an answer to a question and the answer is " After we roll merchant and ranger out into other professions " .. They will lose at least one customer.
Perhaps TH himself could speak for himself?
He can speak for himself.. I've seen him do it in the past.. I still think that I amcorrect though, and that was my opinion, but of course that doesn't matter at all does it.
Continuing to play is your own personal business....
As far as my own personal buinsess goes I posted that here to show TH if he does read this thread that SOE will lose at least onecustomer based on those changes which is something no doubt they would like to know and consider before making the changes, unless of course my opinion on my own professional board has no value after people stated TH has been informed about this thread.
NarcoticFrog wrote:
Personally, i am amazed at the some of the responses by the supporters of the profession. Not at their strong support, but the fierceness of their attacks. Maybe that naivete on my part, but really, the orginal poster obviously wanted a fair debate of the idea, the Subject was badly written but the content was well thought out and postured well. The responses were horrific and i am especially amazed at the responses from the Merchant Correspondant. Yes he has to protect his Community, but his responses really are quite distasteful, especially directed at someone from his Community.
You know why? We have had these arguements over and over and over again. Don't pretend to think that you are the first to say that this profession should be eliminated. Try looking at the threads where Samwise and I go at it with full-page posts. Personally, I'm not willing to post like that again.
The burden fallsuponYOU to research the problem on these boards andbring new pointsbefore spouting off about how this profession needs to be eliminated, because all of us have already argued on these points too many times. If you bring a new point to argue, we might be more interested in listening.
Actually, I don't think you and I ever argued this particular issue, unless you were on the "delete the profession" side, because I sure don't remember arguing that side myself.
Balkstar wrote:
You know why? We have had these arguements over and over and over again. Don't pretend to think that you are the first to say that this profession should be eliminated. Try looking at the threads where Samwise and I go at it with full-page posts. Personally, I'm not willing to post like that again.
DocSavag wrote:
I wonder what part of "Please don't have the same arguement over and over again" is difficult to grasp.
*stands down*
)
.
Balkstar wrote:
NarcoticFrog wrote:
Personally, i am amazed at the some of the responses by the supporters of the profession. Not at their strong support, but the fierceness of their attacks. Maybe that naivete on my part, but really, the orginal poster obviously wanted a fair debate of the idea, the Subject was badly written but the content was well thought out and postured well. The responses were horrific and i am especially amazed at the responses from the Merchant Correspondant. Yes he has to protect his Community, but his responses really are quite distasteful, especially directed at someone from his Community.
You know why? We have had these arguements over and over and over again. Don't pretend to think that you are the first to say that this profession should be eliminated. Try looking at the threads where Samwise and I go at it with full-page posts. Personally, I'm not willing to post like that again.
The burden fallsuponYOU to research the problem on these boards andbring new pointsbefore spouting off about how this profession needs to be eliminated, because all of us have already argued on these points too many times. If you bring a new point to argue, we might be more interested in listening.
The burden does not fall upon me or anyone else to wade through thousands of posts to see if a point had been stated or brought up before.
And if i had and decided to wade through them and find something that was old and replied to it what would you have said? I'll tell you, "Dont reopen these old threads start a new one". Ive seen it before when old threads are reopened.
These forums are here so people can express an opinion, if you feel the point has been done to death DONT RESPOND, let the thread die, or if you feel the need to protect your profession from the obvious masses who have expressed and are still expressing their belief about your profession (but obviously its not a problem) then refer posters to previous debates.
you cannot have a master crafting profession, master combat profession and advertising 4
alomst completed Master Smuggler, Master Tailor, Advertising IV
working on Master Tailor, Creature Handler, Advertsing IV