Merchant Archive
Thread: Do away with Merchant, but let Crafters keep it
Andymantium wrote:
Dingo, the merchant trainer didn't issue me an egg-launcher. Got a spare?
Me too
Fhtagn wrote:
If the game is supposed to be based on a player economy, why is the base for that economy being punished Skill Point wisefor doing what it does?
who knows... but the Devs designed the skill point system the way it is when the game was created, limits and all -- 250 is the cap, Novice starting professions cost 15 points (though I wouldn't mind if that was adjusted to 10 instead). you get to build your character however you chose, within the established limits, just like everyone else -- if you want to buff, you spend points on Doctor, if you want to harvest creature resources you spend points on Scout and possibly Ranger, if you want to build houses and furniture you spend points on Architect, etc, etc. and, if you want to have vendors to sell things you spend points on Business and Merchant
seems pretty straight-forward to me...
BountyBlunter wrote:
It's never going to happen because if it were to happen I would have to be compensated for my time, there is no real way to quantify how much time AND MONEY I have spent in gaining these skills so therefore I don't think there is any way togive me compensation for this time AND MONEY which I, and other people with these skills,would considersatisfactory .
If that's truly the way you feel, and are adamant in your quest to remove us parasites, then send a PM to Thunderheart oranother Dev
Why wont it happen? It just happened to Bounty Hunters. A precedence has potenially been set.
Why are you asking the posters to take their ideas to TH? Isnt this the "Forum" for presenting ideas? For having debates? Discussing concepts? If you are sick of the debate then bow out, you are not going to convince the other posters anyway.
Fhtagn wrote:If the game is supposed to be based on a player economy, why is the base for that economy being punished Skill Point wise for doing what it does?who knows... but the Devs designed the skill point system the way it is when the game was created, limits and all -- 250 is the cap, Novice starting professions cost 15 points (though I wouldn't mind if that was adjusted to 10 instead). you get to build your character however you chose, within the established limits, just like everyone else -- if you want to buff, you spend points on Doctor, if you want to harvest creature resources you spend points on Scout and possibly Ranger, if you want to build houses and furniture you spend points on Architect, etc, etc. and, if you want to have vendors to sell things you spend points on Business and Merchantseems pretty straight-forward to me...
No.
The only way Architects make money - indeed their only purpose in the game is to craft goods. The only way they can make money therefore is to sell their goods. The only way they can sell their goods (especially for instance if they are new to a crafting profession) - is to have merchant. Unless they spam at a starport (which many of you in here have said is abhorrent and at best useless), or have a large guild that supports them.
This is counter-intuitive. As far as I can see the intention by the Devs was to have merchants who would buy goods from crafters and sell them. ie. crafters would be wholesalers, merchants retailers. Unfortunately it doesn't work like this practically in the game, and hence is broken. If there was some kind of consignment system etc. then perhaps this idea would work, but really it's broken.
NarcoticFrog wrote:
Why wont it happen? It just happened to Bounty Hunters. A precedence has potenially been set.
Why are you asking the posters to take their ideas to TH? Isnt this the "Forum" for presenting ideas? For having debates? Discussing concepts? If you are sick of the debate then bow out, you are not going to convince the other posters anyway.
And they're not going to convince us of what they're arguing either. So, what do we have? People flaming each other and cussing, without generating any productive discussion.
Threads titled: "Merchant sucks" or "Merchant is a waste" , etc. are not conducive to healthy debates or discussions. Posting such threads here will result in mostly negative reactions and hostile argumenting.
BountyBlunter wrote:
Ok, at least I know where I stand.. You want to have two of my professions removed from the game because in your eyes they serve no purpose, and are a waste of developers time.. Did you think about the time that I have wasted, and many others, actually gaining these Master elite skills just to have you lobby for them to be removed ? No.. You didn't. It's never going to happen because if it were to happen I would have to be compensated for my time, there is no real way to quantify how much time AND MONEY I have spent in gaining these skills so therefore I don't think there is any way to give me compensation for this time AND MONEY which I, and other people with these skills, would consider satisfactory .
Please refernece previous nerfs to the Creature Handler, Pistoleer professon and others that have become towards useless. This game is not entirely about you.
That is the way the skills are set out, there are choices to be made. Just because people want more skills, it does not mean the developers should bow down to the "Gimme Gimme Gimme!" mentality.
I don't have a gimme gimme gimme attitude. I'm saying if I felt the investment in sp was actually worth it, I wouldn't be here. I don't feel the investment in merchant sp is fair on crafters.
But you said up there (points up) that most crafters are invested in Artisan and thus have a vendor anyway...? So they CAN sell their wares, they just cant use the perks like planetary advertising which is in the Merchant profession.. Hence the fact people want this profession removed and re-distributed for thier own personal gain at my, and other peoples, expense.
No, it's not at your expense, and this is hardly about your "investment" anyway (considering all one has to do to get merchant xp is to set up vendors and wait it out, I don't feel that you can claim it was hard work anyway). Your argument is interesting in that you claim that it's at "your expense", yet then say that it would be for my "personal gain". You can't claim that I'm being selfish when you're saying exactly the same thing.
I second that ! Fix the vendor bug which allows people to keep our vendors without the invested SP. Come to think of it take the top 5 / 10 issues on all 32 professional boards and implement those fixes / features .. Let's not dedicated developers time to removing two professions from the game which, to be honest, is probably impossible at this late stage without causing major issues.
I'll agree it's unlikely - but my position remains that there are too many professions, which means none get the developers' time they deserve.
I don't have to explain it, it's quite simple.. You need to invest 63sp into an elite profession.. As I said, "probably" evey merchant here will be firing back at you. I didn't realise you were a merchant because you want to destroy merchant... Strange how I came to that conclusion really.
No. Leaving it the way it is is as damaging as changing it. This is what you fail to realise - there are people (many crafters) who are upset at the merchant requiremtns to craft, are those people less important than you now?
Ok, given that I will get the skills rolled into master chef lets examine something else
I am not a master chef currently, what I said was a final skillset, I am currently 0/1/3/4 and will be working my way up to master eventually, in a few months perhaps. I am a master merchant however! So, what would happen if this magical change happened to me right now ? I would end up losing 5 tents in our village center holding 3 vendors with alot of expensive stuff on them because my master merchant was removed and placed as an elite crafting skill ! Unacceptable.
Perhaps it's as unacceptable as nerfing creature handlers and pistoleers and others. If it's in the interests of the game, then it should be done.
Lets say of course, hypathetically, that I am already master Chef and Master Merchant.. How would you compensate me for the time I have spent building up my Merchant (and ranger) Skillset ? I could have spent all those weeks, and all those credits doing something else with my SP a benefit given to all people not already invested in merchant but invested as a master crafter as soon as the change takes effect. That gives them an advantage over myself when I had clearly taken the time and invested the SP to progress my skillset within the bounds of the system which is being changed. Unacceptable.
Tough. Happened with many other professions and they moved on in the interests of the game.
If either the first or second situation did occur, how would I be compensated in cash by SOE for the money which I paid to them in order to level up my character in two professions which have been removed from the game ? People playing past this event would not have to invest the time and money into doing these things as I did, plus I would have to spend time gaining other levels with my two characters which may already be in place on people who never even invested 1SP into the skills.. Unacceptable.
SOE constantly change the game to make it better. They are not liable if you disagree with their decisions.
I can tell you one thing, if you asked this to Thunderheart.. I don't think you would get an "After JTL/CB" answer.. You would get a "No."If I ever see a post by TH giving an answer to a question and the answer is " After we roll merchant and ranger out into other professions " .. They will lose at least one customer.
Perhaps TH himself could speak for himself? Continuing to play is your own personal business....
Andymantium wrote:
And they're not going to convince us of what they're arguing either. So, what do we have? People flaming each other and cussing, without generating any productive discussion.
Threads titled: "Merchant sucks" or "Merchant is a waste" , etc. are not conducive to healthy debates or discussions. Posting such threads here will result in mostly negative reactions and hostile argumenting.
Similar threads are begun in many professions regarding other professions complaining about the profession, but few involve actual the Master of the Profession suggesting there profession is a waste. Most are from outsiders complaining about their reliance on the profession, eg Dancer, and most threads are badly written flames to begin with. If you believe its a waste, ignore the post, why keep flaming? It has just invited more people into the debate, despite you feeling there should be no debate of this type.
Personally, i am amazed at the some of the responses by the supporters of the profession. Not at their strong support, but the fierceness of their attacks. Maybe that naivete on my part, but really, the orginal poster obviously wanted a fair debate of the idea, the Subject was badly written but the content was well thought out and postured well. The responses were horrific and i am especially amazed at the responses from the Merchant Correspondant. Yes he has to protect his Community, but his responses really are quite distasteful, especially directed at someone from his Community.
Jabba_Lackey wrote:
"who knows... but the Devs designed the skill point system the way it is when the game was created"
Well if that isn't enough reason to change it then I don't know what is? Look at how many professions and game mechanics have been changed since this game was created! It's about time they tweak the skill points and the rest of theprofessions a bit!
And by the by this thread is not titled "Merchant sucks" or "Merchants are a waste." It's called "Do away with Merchant, but let Crafters keep it" and in the first post I tastefully posted my thoughts, problems, and solutions. So if there is any flaming going on here, it's coming from the so called TRUE merchants not me, I'm just posting some problems I've noticed not only with my self but several of my crafting friends.
And here's another thing. How many of you complaining about losing merchant have more then one account? If your a merchant on one character and a fighter on the next, you're no more amerchant then my left toe. I refuse to have to pay fortwo copies of agame to be able to enjoy it. Of course not all ofhave money makingmerchant bots and I commend you,but if you don't I don't understand whyyou think this is such a bad idea?
I never quoted you.I replied to other comments made by posters subsequent to you. While I disagree with your proposal, it was presented in a coherent manner.
Good intentions aside, going to a particular profession forum, and arguing for said profession to be removed as a class will not be well-received. Your thread title by itself set perceptions before the post content was even read.
NarcoticFrog wrote:
Similar threads are begun in many professions regarding other professions complaining about the profession, but few involve actual the Master of the Profession suggesting there profession is a waste. Most are from outsiders complaining about their reliance on the profession, eg Dancer, and most threads are badly written flames to begin with. If you believe its a waste, ignore the post, why keep flaming? It has just invited more people into the debate, despite you feeling there should be no debate of this type.
Personally, i am amazed at the some of the responses by the supporters of the profession. Not at their strong support, but the fierceness of their attacks. Maybe that naivete on my part, but really, the orginal poster obviously wanted a fair debate of the idea, the Subject was badly written but the content was well thought out and postured well. The responses were horrific and i am especially amazed at the responses from the Merchant Correspondant. Yes he has to protect his Community, but his responses really are quite distasteful, especially directed at someone from his Community.
Asking for any profession to be removed will be met with resistance. Try posting a similar thread in the other profession forums and I guarantee the result will be consistent.
To answer your question, I reply to some of these threads because, well, I can. Though, I'm beginning to think it's a waste of my time. In any case, my position is that we should improve the existing profession, not disband it and scatter the abilities across several other professions.
If merchant abilities are important for your gameplay (and when I say "your", I mean everyone out there), then focus discussion on what's already here, and how to upgrade and enhance it, not remove it and re-distribute the skills to the masses. If you're arguing to obtain the abilities, in whatever form you happen to envision them, they are obviously worth something to you. Since it's worth something, would it not make sense to improve on the existing functionality rather thanremoving the profession and settling for "just" vendors?
At any rate, I'm done here, nothingI say further will change anything. I have my opinions, and you all have yours, and that's that.