Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchants and Suppliers
).Oh, vendor limits will have a large effect on me if they're not raised a significant amount from their current values. It's just a game though. If crafting / selling ceases to be fun becasue of vendor limtis, I'll do my best to make it fun again. If I can't, I'll find something else to do.
joined42904 wrote:
I also note that folks like DirthNader don't really feel one way or the other about the vendor limits.
It doesn't affect the average legit armorsmith really in any way except change things from by the item to by the suit....
joined42904 wrote:
HappyMob,
You think 1 vendor should hold 110 full factory runs of items?
I'm glad the devs don't see it your way. Crates aren't 1000 for a reason...so that things take up space. Some crates are 100. If you are lucky with those you can get 1000 items on the vendor for the cost of 10 without grouping the items into a backpack.
I think you should be able to run a comprehensive list of items from 1 profession on 1 vendor. As a master merchant, I should be able to sell 6 lines of items, or run 1 line of items in 6 locations. The problem with 110x6 as it currently works, is that I effectively need all 6 vendors to run a single line of items in a single location. As a doctor, for example, I have something like 83 schematics. Now I can't just stock a couple singles of each of these. In some cases, I need to stock several singles and several full or partial crates (the Stim B example wasthe realistic worst case- 60 vendor item slots just for 1 schematic).
So would ask you this - as a master merchant, should I only be able to have a shop in 1 location? Or should I only stock a subset of my schematics? Or should I only stock in full crates and forget about the smaller customers? And let's not even think about reselling any combat medic supplies or medical droids or doctor focused food. The limits on test would barely let me run a comprehensive doctor shop. Don't even think about getting reselling or getting a second crafting profession. And I feel for anyone trying to run a business below at least merchant xxx4 (6x100).
All I'm saying is that if they gave us a reasonable way to get multiple sales out of a single vendor item slot, the item limits would be far less painful. It's doesn't have to be a full factory run into a single vendor slot (and I'm not arguing that we should have a stack of 1000 items in our inventory - only on the vendor would stack). But can you give me any reasonable reason that I should be forced to split up a crate into singles or a resource stack into smaller stacks for sales? All I'm asking for is per unit sales.
Lets sat the WS do not have Merchant skills, just artisan buissness3. Remember this hole topic is not about the "right way" to conduct business, it about how to deal with a vendor limit and with merchants selling other people products.
The WS can sell 50 VK's a day max, that is all he can stock on his vendor and another 25 on the bazaar for a total of 75. If the price for these VK's are 6k each that makes, and take 1k to make.
Daily expenses on making VK's: 75K
Daily Income from sellings VK's: 450K
Daily Profit: 375K
Now the WS instead start to supply merchants who sell VK's in thair "TKA one stop shops". He sell to more the one merchant, but each merchant only sells VK's on one vendor, and only 100 a day (10 left over)
The Ws set the bulk price of VK's at 3k. That will be 75K a crate. Each merchaint buy 2 krates to restock thair VK vendor.
And lets just say the only 10 merchaints buy this way.
10 merchants each buying 4 crates of 25 VK's for 75K eack is 1000 VK's for 3000000 cr
Daily expenses on making VK's: 1,000K
Daily Income from sellings VK's: 3,000K
Daily Profit: 2,000K
What is more 375,000 cr or 2,000,000 cr ?
In the most extreme The WS could sell 50 backpacks with 4 crates of 25 vk's for a totals of 15,000,000 cr a day. (This would properly be close to the WS having a monopoly on VK's)
Daily expenses on making VK's: 5,000,000
Daily Income from selling VK's:15,000,000
Daily Profit: 10,000,000
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Ok let me try to show how a WS can make more credit over time by selling to merchants for lower prices...
Lets sat the WS do not have Merchant skills, just artisan buissness3. Remember this hole topic is not about the "right way" to conduct business, it about how to deal with a vendor limit and with merchants selling other people products.
The WS can sell 50 VK's a day max, that is all he can stock on his vendor and another 25 on the bazaar for a total of 75. If the price for these VK's are 6k each that makes, and take 1k to make.
Daily expenses on making VK's: 75K
Daily Income from sellings VK's: 450K
Daily Profit: 375K
Now the WS instead start to supply merchants who sell VK's in thair "TKA one stop shops". He sell to more the one merchant, but each merchant only sells VK's on one vendor, and only 100 a day (10 left over)
The Ws set the bulk price of VK's at 3k. That will be 75K a crate. Each merchaint buy 2 krates to restock thair VK vendor.
And lets just say the only 10 merchaints buy this way.
10 merchants each buying 4 crates of 25 VK's for 75K eack is 1000 VK's for 3000000 cr
Daily expenses on making VK's: 1,000K
Daily Income from sellings VK's: 3,000K
Daily Profit: 2,000K
What is more 375,000 cr or 2,000,000 cr ?
In the most extreme The WS could sell 50 backpacks with 4 crates of 25 vk's for a totals of 15,000,000 cr a day. (This would properly be close to the WS having a monopoly on VK's)
Daily expenses on making VK's: 5,000,000
Daily Income from selling VK's:15,000,000
Daily Profit: 10,000,000
Yes volume will increase the profit inthis case, though I might question how many WS could produce and sell 4 crates of VK's a day without saturating the market.
I see4 issueswith this.
1. It means the Vk's are totally standardizedand there will be little or no variation between each days VK's that hit the market. Merhcants will want to sell the best VK's, and not ones that are minimaly different in stats... thus they will go to the biggest/best WS to buy from, thus making it much harder on the smaller crafter(assuming the big goes with this deal, which they might, if not just to corner the VK market) Therefor I would think customers will have a limited selection.
2. It means crafters that operate their shops with pride and offering a personal selection of itmes might not gain the same enjoyment from only mass producing itemes in crates and selling to a merchant and thus not even bother staying a crafter. (The economic fun for crafters because they are becoming basically a crafting machine and act behind the sceen.)
3. Higher ticket items will most likely need to be sold on consignment (25 suits of composite at even just 200k a suit is 5mil, some players can afford this initial investment, but not many of the independant merchants.
4. The smaller crafters may not be albe to produce 4 crates of VK's a day and maintain any type of consistant quality, thus making this a much harder for them to get into. (If a merchant does such a deal and the goods start deteriating, or supply becomes inconsistant they will go to another smith. But the question I have is why wouldnt they go to the biggest guy from the start, rather then a risker small guy?) Once again I think its the smaller crafter who is hurt more.
5. Both parties have many risks, most independant merchants are unknowledgable on the specifics of every craft, and rather then being able to assist customers that have questions about a product, they have to refer the questions to the smith. Further, the merchant may make a poor investment and end up with alot of ounsold merchandice becasue when entering the business agreement, they most likely wont know which items to buy and how they will sell, where as a crafter/merchant knows thier product (hopefully) and know what to make and how many according to sales.
Just some random thoughts... but you post was good.
In reality the WS would properly stock say 15 different crates of weapons, with the more popular ones taking up more then the avrige 2 space (of the 50).
And instead on 10 merchants each buying 4 crates, some say 100 would stop by every few days buying a couplet of crates. In addition, the merchants would properly not just buy from this WS but have several different suppliers, getting SPG from a AS, backpacks with stim's from doctors and so on.
A starting merchant could but a single crate of weapons and sell them on the bazaar, say a crate of DLT20 rifles. A starting WS could male low end weapons that only need one or not named two resources, say curved swords and 2h curved swords or something like that.
I do not know a lot about armour, and but from what little I do know it sounds like the AS who make full sets are not capable of mass production. They cant make 1000 of sets a day, and the 50 sets they could sell on a business 3 vendor would properly cover it. If they really had big volume production, they could sell backpacks with crates of full sets, for merchants to buy and split up. Granted the merchant would have to work his way up to afford them in the first place, but that is part of the merchants game, the building of ones business.
joined42904 wrote:
I would like the AS s who are not happy with the new vendor limits to disclose how many factories they presently run and whether or not those factories were cross-lotted.
Listen up sparky.
1. I don't use cross-server lots.
2. I don't use rented lots.
3. I don't use my vendors as storage.
4. I'm not supported by a PA (not in a guild, never have been)
5. I am a Master Merchant. Have all the points spent and boxes used to prove it.
6. I started my shop in April of this year.
7. I don't get involved in price wars. My pricing is generally on the high end range of the spectrum.
What I DO offer customers who visit my shop is Variety and Availability. My business plan is a one-stop shop. This will be destroyed with the 660 limit.
I'm on Bria. I'm a blip compared to other crafters and businesses on this server.
And guess what sparky, I have over 3000 items spread out over 6 vendors. My turnover is high and I already spend a lot of gaming time stocking vendors. I don't want that now to be increased 10 fold. Right now, it's a good balance of being merchant / crafter and also ability to play other aspects of the game.
You are making assumptions based on unique and one-off situations. Where in reality, there are more players like me that will be seriously affected by this item limit than the rare examples you seem to give.
Unless you want to start paying for my monthly subscription, you have no say on how I "should" play this game. Especially when what I'm doing is not breaking any rules or doing anything that goes against the spirit of gameplay.
Decisions should be made that talk to the majority of the player base and should not be dictated by the actions of a few. And there is no reason in this world to do so considering it's just a game. I'm the one competing against these LARGE businesses you keep mentioning and I have no issue with it.
There is a big difference between "Inability to compete" and "Inability of NOT WANTING to compete". Anyone can compete with larger, more established crafters. I'm proof that it's possible and if I can do it, anyone and their pet chimp can do it. I'm not exactly an uber power-gamer here. I play to have fun.
SWG has the best crafting system I've ever experienced in any MMPRG game I've ever played (and I've played many of them). It's a good balance of complexity and opportunity. I don't want that changed.
You're arguments are short-sighted and narrowly focused.
* Buy resources from resource vendor.
* Make schematic for sup components .
* Load factory and wait.
* Move components crates to input hopper and bring one set back to crafting station.
* Make weapon schematic.
* Load factory and wait.
And several crates of weapons are ready. >
Get items from back stock to restock with.
Travel around to vendor restocking.
Check Back stock to se if it needs restocking it self.
If it does, buy forth mentioned crates from weaponsmith, or put in a custom order.>
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
...If you wand to take on the resource vendors job, the crafting job, and the merchants job so to keep all the profit for you self that that ok, but you will not have as large a income compared to the workload as if you just sold in bulk for much less...
Not always correct. For an established crafter, the additional workload to take on all three jobs versus crafting alone is minimal. There's rarely a resource I need anymore. Stocking takes minimal effort, and all of the "market research" and "advertising" is pretty much over for established crafters who pay attention to their customers. The amount of armor I can produce is limited by my own personal limit on how many factories I want sitting around at once. I'm usually sold out by the time the next run is done. Selling in bulk isn't going to let me produce more armor, so selling it wholesale certainly isn't going to bring in any more credits for me.
I think the problem in any pending crafter-merchant relationships they may be formed after the limits go in is that a dedicated merchant doesn't have anything to offer to an established crafter. A merchant "partner" for me would essentially be a glorified stock boy. While merchants do have something to offer to newer crafters, the newer crafters usually don't have the actual product to offer to the merchant.
Seems like quite the disconnect, no?
Message Edited by DirthNader on 08-13-2004 05:29 AM