Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchants and Suppliers
Brilyn
Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:25 am
#40
< Not everyone enjoys special orders as much as you do. >
I think you're a little confused about my post.
I'm not suggesting that 'special orders' are what I enjoy.
The 60 weapons I'll have on display? They will be 60 *Standard* weapons. I can make over 80. With the proposed limits, I cannot even put **1** of each weapon on display.
<Some folks prefer to bulk craft and sell the bulk items. >
Yup. That would be me.
< It's probably easier for WS in some ways because your best stuff is loot-driven anyway and not tedious. >
Um..... what?
Loot-driven: DE-10, Krayt-anything, all that sort of thing: I make maybe 1-2 a week of, mainly because people bring the appropriate stuff to me, and I assemble it. Yay!
Yes, it's damn tedious.
What I consider my 'best' stuff, is made from resources I've spent hours searching out, and haggling over. The first time I make it, it's my 'best' stuff. After that, it's the top of my range (because I go make *lots* of it).
< Would you give a small discount to a customer or guild who asked you for 5 crates of weapons? >
Mostly? No.
Why? Because I'm cheaper than most Weaponsmiths I've stumbled across on Starsider. Buying from me is like buying from *them* at a 50% discount.
Sometimes I sell stuff cheap. I've *given* away a Hack before, ditto for some top notch Scythes, a DXR-6b or three, and a fair few other weapons.
But making 500 Vibroknucklers is *not* cheaper (per VK) than making 1 VK. So why would I discount a bulk purchase?
Happymob
Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:37 am
#41
joined42904 wrote:
I think the present 110 figure is actually quite reasonable. It will probably be raised because so many people are complaining about it. But 660 items is a lot of items. It's about as much of the market as one person needs to be allowed to have in order to be fair to the other crafters. But that's just my opinion.
It's only "a lot" if 1 serial number = 1 item. For most businesses, same serial crates are broken up in a wide variety of ways to cater to both large purchasers and small. If I can do a 1000-item run of stim Bs and stock it as 1 item (and have this to be split up at purcahse time), then the 110 limit is fine. But if I have to stock it as 10 full crates, 10 crates of 10, 15 crates of 5, and 25 singles (and leave the other 6 crates on my factory for a total hit against my vendor of 60 items), then the 110 limitgets eaten up very quickly. This doesn't even deal with theother4 types of stimpacks and 30 types of woundpacks, much less then enhance packs, state heals, revive packs, cures, etc.
The same applies to the 80-some different types of weapons that a weaponsmith deals in or dozens of types of food and drink that a chef deals in or armor or... you get the idea. 660 total items (and remember, that's at master merchant only) seems barely adequate to run a relatively modest business carrying a single line of items. You certainly wouldn't want to try and sell items from multiple professions within this limit.
joined42904
Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:42 am
#42
Brilyn,
If you are that inexpensive, I bet merchants would buy from you at your normal prices and go resale elsewhere. That means you will have a lot of orders. And merchants will make a killing off your goods if they are top quality for your server.
Brilyn
Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:44 am
#43
< I think it's obvious to anyone that 50 items at master merchant is too low. Unless you are talking per vendor. >
??????
50 items per vendor is too low at *business 3*!!!!
< I think the present 110 figure is actually quite reasonable.>
Why do you feel you should be allowed keep a *reasonable* stock at Master Merchant?
I think you should be able to have a *reasonable* amount of stock at Business 3. Otherwise WHAT'S THE FREAKIN' POINT???????
I'm sorry to break it to you, but the Business 3 isn't there purely as a stepping stone to Master Merchant. Business 3 is there so people who don't want to *waste* points on Merchant can get a vendor without doing so.
< crafters willing to offer bulk prices >
By "bulk prices" I assume you mean "Discounted prices because you're buying lots at once", yes?
Consider that it doesn't cost me any less to make 500 vks, why should I discount the price?
< How doesn't the crafter come out ahead in this way?>
Because the cost of the item has nothing to do with the cost of purchasing/using/maintaining the factory?
Because the cost fo the item is *completely* down to the cost of the resources?
< Maybe the merchant would sell the necessary resources to the crafter at a discount in order to get a discount. >
You're joking, right?
I'm really not going to bet on any random merchant having better resources than me, for 90% of what I make.
< Though really good crafters who invested in their 12 points I doubt would be willing to cut merchants TOO sweet a deal on the schematics. They would be 10-points most likely. >
Hi there. I'm a 10-pointer. I won't be cutting *anyone* a "sweet deal" on any schematics.....
joined42904
Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:48 am
#44
HappyMob,
You think 1 vendor should hold 110 full factory runs of items?
I'm glad the devs don't see it your way. Crates aren't 1000 for a reason...so that things take up space. Some crates are 100. If you are lucky with those you can get 1000 items on the vendor for the cost of 10 without grouping the items into a backpack.
EvilHomerSimpson
Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:54 am
#45
You'll get that courtesy when you stop spamming the forums with your new shiny word. Try using a thesaurus. FYI - I'm not the only one tired of seeing you post the same thing over and over here on Merchant and Artisan.
Wire3k
Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:04 am
#46
joined42904 wrote:
I think watching how all this will pan out is good entertainment value that those of you who leave will miss.
To each their own I guess - course, I don't slow down to rubberneck a car or train wreck either.
joined42904
Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:04 am
#47
I would like the AS s who are not happy with the new vendor limits to disclose how many factories they presently run and whether or not those factories were cross-lotted.
DirthNader
Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:12 am
#48
joined42904 wrote:
I would like the AS s who are not happy with the new vendor limits to disclose how many factories they presently run and whether or not those factories were cross-lotted.
I don't really feel one way or the other about the changes. For the sake of discussion though, I'll throw out my numbers.
2 accounts, 10 factories,2 houses. Up until last month, it was 1 account, 4 factories, 1 house.
I earned my success from one account with no lot swaps, so I've never been one to pay any heed to the idea that you must have multiple accounts and/or lot swaps to succeed. I got my alt account so that I could PvP and not worry about having PvP affect my business. The extra lots are just gravy.
VarnaxDespin
Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:24 am
#49
joined42904 wrote:
I would like the AS s who are not happy with the new vendor limits to disclose how many factories they presently run and whether or not those factories were cross-lotted.
I started ASin late Dec and quit in late May.
- I have one account since launch
- ran 2-6 factories most the time.
-I have never lot swaped for anything
Gavvot
Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:42 am
#50
DirthNader wrote:
Gavvot wrote:
Nope, those put their armor on auction.
The others do a little lower compo armor for a little lower fixed price.
And the rare one that have more time then others sell ubese.
Non master usually have vendor with hundreds ubese shirts and that's pretty much it.Wow. That's really eye-opening. I don't think I've auctioned off a set of any armor, save RIS. Actually, that wasn't even an auction, I just didn't want to seperate sets and I didn't think my customers didn't need to be paying eight digits for items in a travel pack, so I sold them via forum.
It's much different where I play. We've got about half a dozen dedicated masters at the top, and a bunch of folks working their way up selling stuff like Ubese, unlayered comp, and wookiee armor along the way. There's also a good bit of churn among the top armorsmiths, and retirements or long vacations are not uncommon.
Regarding RandomStatic's comments: I enjoy selling in bulk, but I would not sell on consignment. I'm not interested in building a "relationship" with one merchant. I don't desire to be tied to another player, which is what having a large amount of product out on consignment would effectively do. If someone comes to me with the capital to buy in bulk, I'm more than willing to shave the price a bit, and what they do after the sale is not my business.
Hum, this auction was a bad exemple as the price is in fact no higher than average price in shop.
And the seller seem very disapointed with the result of this auction.
Stun armor auction usually go much higher.
Lower level AS that bother selling stuff usually do sharnaff improved chitin or stuff like that.
Cheap, not as good as what a master can do, but sellable.
When you think that chitin can easily go to 50%-60% kinetic it's a shame really.
And that tantel can probably go higher in stun resist than a compo could ever go...
As a crafter, I have to admit that I would probably never sell on consigment either, except if I know very well the merchant.
And as a Merchant, I have to say that I would rather buy in bulk quantity to resell than sell on consigment too.
joined42904
Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:20 am
#51
DirthNader,
You are more legit than I am. I have 2 accounts. One for combat and then I didn't want to screw up that completely when I decided to try crafting so I created a second crafter toon. My start was assisted by the fact that as I gathered resources my other toon hunted the hides I would need. My first armor had very little capital investment...I had drawn up most everything with my own harvs. The hides I had hunted myself.
To be fair, I've always had access to about 16 slots for harvs which is an advantage over a single account. (one house, 2 factories I've placed)
I now use about 5 additional factories placed by a good friend who is semi-retired from the AS business but who would hopefully come back soon. I would gladly use my own lots for factories if he would come back. 
I also note that folks like DirthNader don't really feel one way or the other about the vendor limits.
It doesn't affect the average legit armorsmith really in any way except change things from by the item to by the suit. But I sell by the suit now anyway. And I started doing that because I feared that my competitors would come in and buy all my gloves for instance if all my armor were in pieces.
It's starting to look as if Ubese will need its own vendor if the changes take place.
Brilyn
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:06 pm
#52
I'm gonna address a couple points from various people.
Tanks:
Option 1) I sell my stuff. I'd like to sell my own stuff. I'd prefer it to sell it direct, because, frankly, what the hell does a merchant know about weapons? Secondly, someone will remember where they *bought* the weapon, not who *made* the weapon, so the merchant chooses where he sends referrals for custom weaponry.
Option 2) Perfectly acceptable.
I sell Vibroknucklers for 10k apiece. A crate costs 250k. Take it or leave it. This is what my work is worth to me. If a merchant wants to sell for those prices, thats fine. I don't see why *I* have to take a price hit because *they* suddenly want to make money off *my* work.
Option 3) Nope.
Until UI tools are introduced, this is unacceptable. I'm not trusting Bob the random merchant with several million credits of crates on his say so.
That's just the way it is.
Tarnak:
Ah, right, you would be someone who plays the Merchant Profession then, yes?
< The merchant is doing almost all the work, all the crafter have to do is make the manufacturing schematic and put it in a factory. >
Uh huh..... Merchant is doing almost all the work..... Like finding the resources? Paying for them? Finding the *good* resources? Purchasing the various loot components?
Or is "all the work" putting it on the vendor and setting a price? Maybe setting the Planetary Advertising to 'on'?
The Merchant is reselling. The Merchant is doing minimal work.
Lotussutol:
I agree.
VarnaxDespin:
I agree
Docsavag:
< The most important thing Merchants need at this point is better tools for doing retail sales for crafters. A reliable, safe consignment system, and a better way to do sales reporting is a must to make the merchant profession capable of fulfilling the role it has in this game. >
If a proper consignment system gets implemented, I will drop the Merchant Profession immediately and seek out a Merchant.
Until this gets instituted, the Merchant profession is largely a waste of skillpoints.
Lotussutol:
Your second post.
< 2. (CASH SINK!!!) If the 6k limit is dropped people will be selling some items that are a million credits plus on the Bazaar. Instead of a flat fee for selling items make it so there is a 2% fee applied to buyer or taken from the sellers price. Allow merchants that have the proper skill to have this reduced to a 1% fee. That will remove quite a bit of money from the game. >
If the 6k limit gets dropped, idiots will put all their looted crap for sale at whatever the *new* cap is. Yay!!!
0/23423 Chest plate for sale for 25k!
12-20 CDEF pistol for sale for 100k!
I mean, as a weaponsmith, I occasionally see stuff I want on the Component section, like Kliknik glands. These things are worth about 500c or so as they are a minor boost to a grenade (which is only 5 shots). But 95% of them are on there for 6k. Ditto for 25/25 Geo Sword cores. These are largely worthless, but get put there due to the cluelessness of the sellers.
What happens? They're stuck there for 7 days, drop off, and left in the Available Items section for another week or so.
If the item limits go to 50k or higher, idiots will see the decently-priced ones at 500c, buy them, and reoffer for 50k. In order to 'make money'.
Raise the number of items I can have on the bazaar, sure, but not the price cap.
< 3. non merchants would still get a 25 item limit. Merchants could scale up in limits based upon what ever the new vendor limit is going to be. >
So, basically: "screw you, you non-merchant"?
MaDuece:
< I think there needs to be a limit that is still large enough for most crafters to still stock their own vendors. Forcing crafters to become strictly suppliers is not a good thing in this game environment. There is simply too little means of accountability on the part of merchants and vendors for this to become a healthy economic environment. >
I agree 100%.