Merchant Archive
Thread: Here's the newest vendor limits
Korrack
Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:21 am
#53
tadpoleStillwater wrote:
That would make it a coding problem. If they are loading all items on the vendor...then why is "Next Items" needed. They should key the database call on the current page and the filters loaded from the selection menu.
Please don't generalize and say, effectively, that anyone having a problem with the item/vendor cap is a "casual player".
I'm not excusing the system as it works. I think it sucks too and I have been affected amny times by it. They coded the database badly. I know first hand how the database works as I was a Mayor of a player city from day 1. We fought with the correspondent and DEVs continually about decoration limits until it was all explained to us. When someone goes into an area, everything that is within "range" loads into the game so the player is aware of it (whether their graphics settings allow it or not).
Vendors work the same way. The "next" button is a formality. It has nothing to do with item count on the vendor. The client loads information about the quantity of items and such when a player browses a vendor. The more items on the vendor, the longer the delay before the first item is shown. This is an load lag situation. Now I don't profess to know how the code works or why it does what it does, just that it does. More items on a vendor = more lag for the user and everyone else.
This lag is what they are trying avoid. Limiting the "loading items and information into the real world" will save the server a lot of ticks and people will lag a lot less.
I agree completely the database should work differently, but we all know this is not a Jedi issue or a JTL issue, so a hack fix is all we get.
And I'm sorry for your interpretation but "Again, this is something else that will make this game farther and farther from being for casual players" is not a generalization that only casual players will have a problem with this. A casual player has problems with many of the changes to the game, mostly anything that requires them to continually log on. I was a Master Droid Engineering selling 30-50 droids, 100s of crates of batteries and BH droids a day off my vendors. If I were still in business, and playting the 5 hrs+ a day I used to, this would suck. I in no way infered that just casual players will hate this. SOE advertised this game for casual players. Each change they make forces you to either log on each day, or play something else. That was my point, I just didn't want to take 50 words to say it.
Message Edited by Korrack on 08-17-2004 02:22 PM
RocketM
Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:38 pm
#54
I don't agree with these changes primarily for exactly this reason. They are going to put an even bigger hurt on the little guy. More of the big guys will open a new shop near the little guy and take away the small amount of business he does get.
Copey wrote:
Actually, I will like being able to have 12 vendors. I usually only have a max of 1500 items for sale anyway, this will allow me to open a second shop!
Indene
Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:08 pm
#55
Dracass wrote:Hook, line, sinker...
Copey wrote:
Thank you TH and DocSavage for looking out for us!
Looks like bait to me too
Especally *12* vendors at master.-Indene-
Indene
Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:23 pm
#56
tadpoleStillwater wrote:And, to what some of the other posters alluded to (I think)...The waved the big stick, "Vendor nerf is coming, 110 items x 6." etc. Now they say, "Hehe, we scared the $tuffing out of those merchants...ROFL."I think there are likely people out there with 3000 items on one vendor. Yes, I agree that this is excessive. I think one vendor at Bus 3, one at novice Merch, one for each box of management, one at Effic 2, one at Effic 4, and one at Master Merc. At Effic 1 your limit of items per vendor goes from 150 to 250, Effic 3 from 250 to 350, and at Master from 350 to 500.Total of 9 vendors, 4500 items.Stop waving the big stick!!! Sit down at the table and negotiate reasonably.
All this screaming about the old system supporting unlimited space is just nonsense. With everything falling off the vendor every 30 days there is NO POSSIBLE WAY for a player to put unlimited stuff on vendor. Time itself creates a limit. Now if the nice DEVs remove that silly 30 day item limit now that they have a numeric value that needs to be across all x vendors so one can stuff all business in 1 vendor if that is what works for your business model
then I could see a use for all the real-time consumed coding this change.-Indene-
GenChaos
Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:38 pm
#57
I posted this to the in test thread right before it was moved.
You know, eveyone here seems to be saying thanks TH for throwing us a bone when what we should be doing is demainding that they no longer treat us like dogs.
I have played this game since BETA, nay I would argue I am still playing this game in BETA. I suffered through the worse launch of any MMORPG ever. No other game of this sort went through a full day where no one could log in. When this game was released, myself and many other BETA testers couldn't believe it. The game shipped with thousands of known exploits and bugs, very little content and whole parts of the game and entire professions unplayable or useless. There was a very well known exploit at the time where a lot of imperials would group up and everyone would do delivery missions. You could gain an enormous amount of imperial XP this way. People had AT-ST's within the first week. Dupe bugs were known and exploited by many. My point is that this game's economy was ruined by the fact that it was released in an unfinished state, pushed out the door by corporate bean counters more interested in the almighty dollar than in creating a quality product.
But I stuck with this game. I stuck with it through horrible nerfs and bug fixes that destroyed entire systems of the game. I stuck through it when the devs said they would temporarily limit house storage (just until they could get their DB problems sorted out.). I stuck through the game when bugs were created that lost a lot of the resources I was selling to get by. I stuckwith this game even when my best friend finally came to the realization that the combat portion of the game sucks and he quit.
I stuck with this game only because it had a very nice free market system that allowed someone to get out of it what they put into it. If I wanted to put hours a day into finding resources, keeping my factories running and the mind numbing process of stocking and restocking my vendors, I could be considered one of the best architects on the server. I stuck witht this game because when my best friend quit and he gave me his resources, I was able to put even more time and effort and become one of the best known architect/WS on the server. I stuck with this game becasue the business simulation aspect was soo interesting.
Now the devs are telling me once again that they want to change the way I play this game. Becasue they couldn't wait until the product was finished to release it; because the devs themselves screwed up the economy they want to come back now and make me pay for it once again. Well I am tired of it. Once this publish hits live, if the vendor limits ar not abandoned and removed completely, I will be canceling my account and never looking back. Not for JTL, not for the supposed combat rebalance, not even for love nor money.
the_redeye_jedi
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:23 pm
#58
FreaknFarlo wrote:
Yes but with 12 vendors at least the door is open for the 'reseller merchant' to one day be a reality.
This is my feeling as well. We are going to need more vendors if we are going to be selling for other people someday.
My only question is why do you get more vendorswith theefficiency tree? Why not just have that tree control the number of items you can place on a vendor. Let the additional vendor tree control the number of vendors you have. With the proposed changes the additional vendor tree seems like a lesser version of the efficiency tree.
But maybe I'm just reading it wrong. I'll be curious to see how this all works out on test center.
-Zito
DocSavag
Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:56 pm
#59
In case you've missed it they hve revised the changes again. See the post stickied at the top of the forum about it. The new limits are aggregate and they scale upward in merchant until you get to Master and have 12 vendors and 4k items!
Broom
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:12 pm
#60
DocSavag wrote:
In case you've missed it they hve revised the changes again. See the post stickied at the top of the forum about it. The new limits are aggregate and they scale upward in merchant until you get to Master and have 12 vendors and 4k items!
I don't care anymore. I have over 5000 items on my vendors right now, and I don't have the skill points to grindmaster merchant, or even management 4. My thoughts about SOE are not fit for printing. As soon as the next non-SOE online RPG comes out, my husband and me are out of here, with all our 6 accounts.
Incidentally, all this proves is that it was NEVER about the database, and that they have indeed been playing us with a cynicism that beggars the imagination. I could live with only having 2 vendors, as long as I could at least put all my wares on them, but this, this is simply sickening.
Linna
joined42904
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:19 pm
#61
The constant wishy-washiness of these devs is starting to annoy even me.
They can't implement their good ideas because as soon as a few people start threatening to cancel their accounts they panic and back down.
The whole of the merchant item limits was very ill done.
At least they are getting rid of the illegit vendors. Or will they change their minds about that too?
Areriye
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:23 pm
#62
I'm not worried about the little guy.
My template:
Master Armorsmith
Teras Kasi Master
Scout 1-0-2-0
Artisan 4-0-4-3
Merchant 0-0-0-4
I now get an extra vendor than I thought I was going to have and a higher vendor limit, though I am going to shuffle over to efficiency so I can get the reduced fee bonuses as well.
Anywho, my point is, I have a pretty self sufficient template, and I have always run my own business even when I only had management I. With an extra vendor before novice now, no one has anything to complain about.
As with all things, if you're serious about making it happen, it'll happen.
Broom
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:31 pm
#63
GenChaos wrote:
I posted this to the in test thread right before it was moved.
You know, eveyone here seems to be saying thanks TH for throwing us a bone when what we should be doing is demainding that they no longer treat us like dogs.
I have played this game since BETA, nay I would argue I am still playing this game in BETA. I suffered through the worse launch of any MMORPG ever. No other game of this sort went through a full day where no one could log in. When this game was released, myself and many other BETA testers couldn't believe it. The game shipped with thousands of known exploits and bugs, very little content and whole parts of the game and entire professions unplayable or useless. There was a very well known exploit at the time where a lot of imperials would group up and everyone would do delivery missions. You could gain an enormous amount of imperial XP this way. People had AT-ST's within the first week. Dupe bugs were known and exploited by many. My point is that this game's economy was ruined by the fact that it was released in an unfinished state, pushed out the door by corporate bean counters more interested in the almighty dollar than in creating a quality product.
But I stuck with this game. I stuck with it through horrible nerfs and bug fixes that destroyed entire systems of the game. I stuck through it when the devs said they would temporarily limit house storage (just until they could get their DB problems sorted out.). I stuck through the game when bugs were created that lost a lot of the resources I was selling to get by. I stuckwith this game even when my best friend finally came to the realization that the combat portion of the game sucks and he quit.
I stuck with this game only because it had a very nice free market system that allowed someone to get out of it what they put into it. If I wanted to put hours a day into finding resources, keeping my factories running and the mind numbing process of stocking and restocking my vendors, I could be considered one of the best architects on the server. I stuck witht this game because when my best friend quit and he gave me his resources, I was able to put even more time and effort and become one of the best known architect/WS on the server. I stuck with this game becasue the business simulation aspect was soo interesting.
Now the devs are telling me once again that they want to change the way I play this game. Becasue they couldn't wait until the product was finished to release it; because the devs themselves screwed up the economy they want to come back now and make me pay for it once again. Well I am tired of it. Once this publish hits live, if the vendor limits ar not abandoned and removed completely, I will be canceling my account and never looking back. Not for JTL, not for the supposed combat rebalance, not even for love nor money.
I couldn't agree more. I am sick and tired of the see-sawing. Tired of being crapped on by people whose salaries I, in the end, am paying. Tired of greedy little kids who only see this as a way to better make virtual money.
Crafting is WORK. Hard work, that forces you to come on line ever day for the million-and-one things you have to keep an eye on, like resource changes, vendors spitting out stuff after 30 days - with the threat hanging over you that the stockroom will delete it if you don't get to it in time - checking harvesters, spending hours running between factories and storage and crafting station. And I will bloody well be damned if I add another step to the process. I AM NOT NOW OR EVER GOING TO GIVE OVER SALES TO A MERCHANT. They can all go to hell as far as I am concerned. I will delete all my stuff, or even better, give it away for free, before I let that happen.
Linna
DocSavag
Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:58 pm
#64
Broom wrote:
GenChaos wrote:I posted this to the in test thread right before it was moved.. I will delete all my stuff, or even better, give it away for free, before I let that happen.Linna
You are free to do that if you like. Not sure how it benefits you but if it makes you feel better that is fine. You might as well say the same thing about getting buffed by a doctor, buying food from a chef, or getting healed by a dancer. Every profession in the game has its place. That you find ours inconvienient isn't enough to make it useless.
Hero_DarkJedi
Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:38 pm
#65
Broom wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
In case you've missed it they hve revised the changes again. See the post stickied at the top of the forum about it. The new limits are aggregate and they scale upward in merchant until you get to Master and have 12 vendors and 4k items!
I don't care anymore. I have over 5000 items on my vendors right now, and I don't have the skill points to grindmaster merchant, or even management 4. My thoughts about SOE are not fit for printing. As soon as the next non-SOE online RPG comes out, my husband and me are out of here, with all our 6 accounts.
Incidentally, all this proves is that it was NEVER about the database, and that they have indeed been playing us with a cynicism that beggars the imagination. I could live with only having 2 vendors, as long as I could at least put all my wares on them, but this, this is simply sickening.
Linna
Your an exploiter ... good bye ... good ridance ...