Merchant Archive
Thread: vendors for non-artisan classes
pizzathehut67 wrote:
So, the doctor uses more skill points than the artisan based profession. as proven earlier the doctor sells a MUCH wider variety of items than any other artisan based profession... yet we are penalized by having to spend 25 skill points for one vendor? is this fair?
Okay, I disagree with many things you've said, but this quote is just wrong in so many ways.
First of all, Doctor is not an artisan-based profession like you stated by saying "any other artisan profession." I'm assuming this is just a misstatement, but it's an important one. Doctors may craft, but at their core they are more a healing class than a crafting class, if we had to pick a category to put them in.
But the funny part of this quote (and it seriously made me laugh out loud) was that idea that you sell a "MUCH wider variety of items" than artisan based professions. Sorry, that's just wrong. You sell med supplies. Stims of a few varieties, rez kits, buff packs for various things, and that's a wider variety than any type of artisan? I may be missing a few things, because I only know a little about doctors, but if you're talking about variety, just count the schematics in your datapad and compare them to an artisan-based crafter's numbers.
I'm sure any artisan could explain their product line and put the doctor's huge product "variety" to shame, but my profession is an extra special case. See, I'm a tailor. Clothes aren't all that useful unless they're modded up, so to make up for it, we get variety. We have over 200 schematics, not even counting the artisan-level clothes. To you they may just be all "clothes" but to us and our loyal customers, it's much more than that. We sell dresses, skirts, pants, shirts, jackets, shoes, boots, gloves, hats, belts, bandoliers, jewelry, jumpsuits, cloaks, robes, wookiee wear, skimpy dancer wear, twi'lek headpieces, and packs. Oh, and we can also make BE modded varieties of most of those items. Not to mention components necessary to both armorsmiths and architects. And here's the fun part... our main color palette is something like 255 colors. A decent tailor shop stocks 500+ items, and I've seen some with close to a thousand. And even that variety on a vendor doesn't approach the total combinations of schematic and color that we could possibly make. So I don't think any non-artisan based class that crafts some can compare to any artisan crafting professions as far as variety goes, and they certainly don't have more variety than mine.
And as far as interdependence, most crafting classes have plenty of that. These are the people the average tailor depends on:
- scouts/rangers - for hide and bone, we use a large amount of hide and sometimes need specific types from various planets that we have to order specially.
- architects - for factories, harvesters, houses (many tailors need 2 houses, one for a shop and another for storage), and for merchant tents (if we have the skill to place them)
- resource merchants - it's hard to harvest every single resource we need by ourselves, we use fiberplast, inert petrochem, polymer, copper, steel, aluminum, iron, amorphous gemstones, crystalline gemstones, and ore, as well as specific types of many of the above. Our factories and harvesters also take a lot of power.
- bio-engineers - for bio tissues to help us make BE clothing
- droid engineers - for crafting station droids and storage droids. And maybe a probot to protect us in the wild.
- combat types - to clear out the spawns around our harvesters so we don't die, or to fight spawns near our shops if we're not in player cities.
- medics and entertainers - to take care of us after we get beat up or killed on our harvester runs or other errands.
- everyone else on the server - out of everyone we rely on, we're mostly dependent on our customers! If they don't buy what we make, we can't afford to do anything else without doing noob missions that take us away from what we love to do. Our customers depend on us for goods, but we depend on them to keep us in business! Now that's real interdependance!
So your profession doesn't have more variety than any of ours, and you're also not more dependant on other classes.
This post isn't really addressing your main point, because I think we've all explained really adequately why no one who doesn't spend the skill points to get to biz 3 should get vendors. We can keep going back and forth forever and never agree, because you seem determined to hold on to your view and somehow convince us you're right and that we should let our profession be watered down. But when the premises that you're basing your arguements from are this off-base, it's hard for us to take your arguments that seriously. Sorry.
i did say earlier that i nod to tailors and architects for having a wide variety. what you all seem to miss here is that when i stock my vendor i have the following (this is what i shoot for at opening a vendor)
Stim B= 300 (in multiple splits fo every level of customer)
Stim C= 300
Stim D= 200
Wound B= 300 of EACH different pack
Wound C= 200 of EACH different pack
Buff D= 100 of each different pack
Rez kits= 150
Poison cure= 100
Disease cure= 100
although its unlikely that resources will let me just pop open a new vendor, i stirve for this amoutn of stock to allow my resources to re-coop from the hit of this quite massive strain. besides tailor, how many artisan based crafting professions have the need for almost 1500 items on a vendor? this of course is a very tall order for any crafting profession and is my own optimistic ideal starting stock for a vendor. with doing this amount of crafting i think that a crafting doctor should be allowed the oppurtunity to recieve the perk that artisan based crafting professions recieve. again, the only argument put forth to this idea has been the "doctor is no in artisan and shouldnt get it". so all you guys are saying is that the non artisan crafting professions are victims of poorly planned orginization and must be forced to pay the obscene 24 skill points for a single vendor. if the devs do plan somthing to make crafter/merchant relations better than im ALL for it! but until that time the non artisan crafting professions (you might try to deny me... but BE's are straight crafting) need a viable solution for at least one vendor. 24 skill points for A vendor is too much. this figure has been widely agreed upon by member of your own profession.
so ill answer one more post and then im done with this. the arguments youve made go as follows!
1= doctor, BE, Etc. werent organized off of the artisan profession. BECAUSE of this orginization they are punished for trying to be crafters.
2= allowing aforementioned professions the OPTION to obtain a single vendor at a cost of an EXTRA 9 skill points AFTER mastery, will hurt the merchant profession. (no one has stated how this will hurt the merchant profession. And dont anyone dare say "because the doctors need us". no one needs you... and thats the BIG problem with the entire profession. until such a solution can be found this is the next best idea to BALANCE this unfair situation.
Listing 1500 instances of 9 types of items is not variety, it's just large quantity.
I'm giving up, since it's obvious that we're both 100% convinced that we're right, it's kind of pointless to argue. But I will say this, since reading this post I had a long converation with my boyfriend (who's a master doctor). And while this may disargree with the doctor party line, he's firmly on the "vendors should stay in artisan/merchant" side. He was actually pretty surprised at the idea of putting something in his profession that has nothing to do with it. And the first thing he said about the idea was "well that would totally nerf the merchants." Of course his opinion probably doesn't matter to anyone either, just pointing out that there are doctors who clearly understand and agree with the point we're trying to make.
The devs are already trying to nerf us one way with this bazaar cap raise and vendor limit, if they started handing out vendors to every profession that wanted one, there would be an awful lot of merchants that quit in disgust. I guess some people may not think that was too great a loss as long as they got what they wanted. I just think it's a little sad that you seem to think that in order to get what you want for your profession that it's worth hurting ours.
im done explaining the same thing. read the prvious posts. you still havent made a valid counter argument. and your boyfriend doc likely uses one of your vendors doesnt he? that works when you live with the person... but to the rest of us there is no solution and all you are doing is saying... "hey... doc... go sit in the med center... oh... and dont you dare craft anything that might take money out of the hands of the artisan". a merchant can cover many planets, mine resources cheaper, use tents that use less lots than houses, can register on the bazaar cheaper than others, can register a vendor on a map, can clother their vendors, can have their vendors bark advertisements for them. so... with all these tool your saying you cant best a single med vendor? you are too afraid of competition... welcome to the cut throat world of business. your given tools to combat the small fish. use them. (granted... us merchants need more lots, higher maintenance fees on vendors at the LOWER levels).
I want a med crafting line in rifleman because I heal myself a lot and I think docs overcharge for their goods, and I want to be able to use them with a med usage of 0.
Docs make too much money off me getting hurt. NERF THE DOCS!!
Kind of stupid, isn't it. Think i'll just take up medic.
The problem here is a simple one
We have a player who is either
a. Not happy having to retain a skill point investment in Merchant to run a vendor
and/or
b. Does not wish to use the services of a merchant (because presumably the bazaar price would be too low
Unfortunately the answer is TOUGH.
Now as it actually stands you _can_ ditch the skill points in merchant because, as we all know, your vendors remain once the skills are gone - so what we are talking about here is the 'post-fix' merchant environment
In reply to your response to my post, there _isnt_ a way for a player to use another players vendor, nor do I think there should be. You either sell to the merchant in bulk up front, or you accept an arrangment of trust with the merchant to forward your 'cut' once sales have been made (using copies of the sales emails and looking at remaining stock levels to verify this - enforcing it however in another matter)
But asking for the skills of another class at no or a fraction of the cost is just absurd and isnt ever going to happen (merchant has little value as it is)
Greets ...
Not having read even the first page of posts, I am sure my opinion has been spoken by at least one other person ... but here it is.
If you want to sell your good on something other then the bazaar or shouts you need to put points into merchant. (BusIII, at minimum).
It's that simple ... If I want to make a tent, I have to go scout ... if I want to heal somebody, I have to go medic.
Vendors carry a *bigger* responsibility then pitching a tent or healing yourself or your pets (or somebody else) ... so it has a little higher threshold then the previous ones. (The responsibility is the waste of players time as they check out these vendors looking for what they wish to buy).
So if you want a vendor, busIII is your lower threshold ... and if you want a decent vendor then novice merchant is the way to go.
150 items is going to be hard for anybody that is a serious sellar ... but then again, if your serious, you have taken more then novice merchant cause you generally have more then 1 vendor. Under the plan that TH and the Designer *like* (but not approved) is the fact you get more when you move up in rank.
Under this scenario ... where a Bulky is limited to 150 items ... there might actually be a *market* for merchant skills. OMG, you mean the merchants might actually be in demand? Go figure.
I believe that if you drop merchant, you should not be able to put anything onto your vendor and when all the stuff is gone the vendor should go away ... that's it.
I would actually like the see the "limit" of items be more like the CH style of pet levels ... that you get more items for every box that you fill up ... so instead of your limit being tied to mgmt line it's tied to each box ... so you start with lets say 150 items ... each box would give you 50 more items ... then master would toss on another 150 ... for 1,100 items ...
The 50 could change up to maybe 75 ... whatever.
The point being that it makes the merchant class *much* more desirable and much more sought after.
were NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT getting a free vendor! WE WOULD STILL PAY 9 SKILL POINTS FOR THE VENDOR! the same cost that would be applied to an artisan based profession! we in the doctor, combat medic, BE professions must pay MORE simply because we are based outside of that skill tree. yet we are crafting professions.
FOR THE LAST TIME IM A MERCHANT!
and i want to be a merchant. im not going to exploit a stupid little bug to get free vendors. i pay money each month to help insure that cheaters get banned.
on a completely different topic... the cap is just fine for the lower levels... but at master there should be NO cap! if merchants felt that players would drill down as TH suggested... then why didnt the merchant take the initiative and split the vendor? this is somthing the Devs thought of while looped on crack.
so artisans get the vendor for 9... i get it for 24. thats fair. hey and while were at lets increase bounty hunter xp for level 4 to 300 million. and give 1k merchant xp to people for every letter they type into the chat box. its not a fair balance! you refuse to think that a doc can craft marketable goods that would require a vendor. the lack of money in the doctor profession is partly all of your faults... not topping medics (dont dare reply that you do... i dont want to hear about how you tipped a guy 20k once 4 months ago)... the prime doctor skill of buffing not chruning the profit it was intended to... the doc boards have been screaming for fixes. the Devs arent doing a thing! hey... remember that buff bug when for some reason your buffs stick to your constitution and stamina but arent actually there? yeah... thats still there... what a drain! i cant tell you how many charges ive wasted because of that bug. with the inability for the docs to make profit like they should (look at the demand for us) and the lack of Developer initiative we need a way to make money! the best way to do this is to come up with some way to get doctors a vendor. last night i was busy... it was like a full moon actually (im thinking holo hunters)... i sold 300k in 2 hours and recieved a 1 mill order for buff packs and stims. now your telling me that a doctor who can churn this much business isnt a crafter? doesnt deserve the same cost for a vendor? granted this was an unusually busy night. if the devs would make a GOOD system for merchants and docs to work together then im sure every doc would pleased as punch and willing to do business. but with the amount we stock on a vendor (about 3 times a week someone comes by and purchases 150 stim B's... hard to keep em stocked) that docs need to have, the current system is no good at all. MOST master docs wouldnt even spend the 9 points (it would prevent them from mastering TKA).
im spent... im not going to reply to a message where i have to repeat myself every other post.
Listen pizzathehut67... we don't say that a doc can't be a crafter, but crafting like a weaponsmith or armorsmith, or whatever isn't the core in the docs profession, whereas it's in artisan and artisan related profession. It's completely fair that you have to spend 15 points to get novice artisan, and another 9 to get a vendor as a master doctor... and it's fair that a master weaponsmith should spend 15 points to get the ability to heal him self and other... What I feel you're complaining is, that you can't master every profession at the same time... or am I off base here? Tell me if I'm wrong about the core in the doc profession is to heal, and the core in the artisan profession is to craft? If you say I'm wrong there, you should learn the game structure and mechanism...
And about the thing with "variety" and "quantity", if you didn't mean variety, why did you write it? If you don't want to stand toanswer for you write, don't write... saying that is just lame excuse in my opinion...