Merchant Archive
Thread: Pleading on behalf non-Merchants
GoCanes wrote:
the fact of the matter is that placing a vendor, advertising on the planetary map, etc... are all skills granted to Merchants in the skill tree, not items that can be sold/traded...
Very true. But we don't see any people placing a vendor after having surrendered the skills. We only see them keeping the item (the vendor). Whether or not it's an item that can be sold or traded doesn't have much bearing on it (how many people do you see selling or trading manufacturing schematics, anyway?).
Having the planetary advertising go away when Adv III is dropped does make complete sense, though.
Don't rules lawyer this, because its not going to work. SOE has stated in a direct question to themon the subject that this is not the intention of the skill. Try looking at Doc's posts sometimes.
p4Samwise wrote:
GoCanes wrote:
the fact of the matter is that placing a vendor, advertising on the planetary map, etc... are all skills granted to Merchants in the skill tree, not items that can be sold/traded...
Very true. But we don't see any people placing a vendor after having surrendered the skills. We only see them keeping the item (the vendor). Whether or not it's an item that can be sold or traded doesn't have much bearing on it (how many people do you see selling or trading manufacturing schematics, anyway?).
Having the planetary advertising go away when Adv III is dropped does make complete sense, though.
Balkstar wrote:
Actually it does. Try asking any journeyman in the realworld to see how they become Master Craftsmen in their respective profession, whether it be plumbers, carpenters, electricians, or what-have-you. Their answer will still be the same. Hard work on hundreds of projects. In essence, a physical grind.
So in order to become a master plumber, capable of working on plumbing of all types, a plumber creates vast numbers of low-quality pipes, one after another, and then discards them, until he/she is suddenly proficient in the creation and repair of all types of plumbing? Because that's how a crafter advances in SWG. It's theoretically possible to advance by actually working on different projects and trying to produce quality items, but the penalties for doing so are steep.
I've written up a whole rant on this. Clicky linky.
Message Edited by p4Samwise on 05-11-2004 11:37 AM
SOE's intent and a quarter will get you a great big gumball. SOE didn't intend for houses to be decorated by dropping things on stairs. SOE made holocrons the most coveted loot drop in MMO history and then "didn't intend" for people to camp the force caves. SOE made the Jedi system based on profession mastery and then didn't intend for people to grind professions out to become Jedi. Heck, look at the "advanced BE guide" - SOE doesn't even know how the BE crafting system works, and threaten periodically that some currently crafted BE pets might be destroyed in a later patch because they're more powerful than intended, but they can't even formulate a response as to exactly what makes a creature "too powerful". Don't speak to me of SOE's intentions as if they meant anything.
Balkstar wrote:
Don't rules lawyer this, because its not going to work. SOE has stated in a direct question to themon the subject that this is not the intention of the skill. Try looking at Doc's posts sometimes.
LukeBorgman wrote:
Can't Merchants throw non-Merchants a bone? Let the Artisan Business 3 Bulky vendor stand.
Let anyone who grinds Artisan Business 3keep justone personal,big, ugly vendor with a limited number of items (one page only, 100 items?) as long asthey pay their fees. ...and they can't move it. No advertising or anything else. Just one.
Is there no (weak little) ranged weapon you can use without Marksman skills? I think there is, and if not, there should be. As a non-Creature Handler, I can still call a CL10 pet.
...please.
DingoBoi wrote:
LukeBorgman wrote:
You're right. I see I was not very clear. I did mean to keep it after surrendering Artisan.
I give you a bone but i'll shove it up your ass first.
This is an exploit.
LOL
Balkstar wrote:
It's obvious you have issues with SOE on numerous topics, but do you need to blow through everybody that gets in your way just to screw them off? What I have been trying to get through to you is that **edit** and complain all you want to SOE on the boards here. That's why they are here. Just don't screw over the rest of us with your game play.
I've already made it clear that my game play is not screwing you over. And you backed off from that point, but then said "but it's SOE's intent that's the important thing". Now you're back to saying that it's you who's being screwed over. Do I need to repeat myself so you can then go back to pointing at SOE's intent, so I can argue against THAT as a valid response again?
Whenever I argue you down on one point, you switch back to a previous one I've already argued you down on. And then once I've re-explained myself, you switch back so the cycle can begin again. It's a little annoying.
LukeBorgman wrote:
Even though, they may plan to change this feature of the game, currently the skill is for hiring, not maintaining vendors, so since I can't hire/place more after I surrender the skill, it is not an exploit, no matter how much you hope it will profit you to say so.
The dev's have indeed stated this IS an exploit on the forums. Thunderheart I believe.
Hence, I hope all the leech power producers get shoved out of business. They are damaging my business and my skills as a merchant by continuing to exploit.
End of story.
DingoBoi wrote:
The dev's have indeed stated this IS an exploit on the forums. Thunderheart I believe.
Thunderheart is a veritable font of misinformation. Citing him as a source weakens your case. 
Refer to his delight over the "clear domed R2 units", or his concern over weaponsmiths being harmed by the removal of decay on factioned death, or his beautifully crafted "advanced BE guide" that took him weeks to assemble, time which he claimed was spent interviewing developers, and turned out to be copied and pasted from the sticky threads on the BE forum, without even a once-over proofreading.
Every now and then he does come through with information that seems genuine. The problem is that he'll never fess up to BSing, so you can't tell when he's being genuine and when he's pulling stuff out of his rear.
p4Samwise wrote:
You're making three assumptions:
1) The majority of your competitors are not bona fideMerchants. The majority are not. Not up for dispute. There are several valid power merchants in addition to myself.
2) Your non-Merchant competitors wouldn't simply pick Merchant up if it were needed to stay in business. Then it would be fair business.
3) All non-Merchant vendor owners are taking business away from bona fide Merchants. How can you not see this? Me=Merchant, You = Non merchant. You sell same thing I do. Something that would have been purchased from myself, or another real merchant.You get the credits that the real merchants would have. Seems clear enough to me.
It seems far more likely that the pain you're experiencing was caused by the economic turmoil that followed the holo-grind. The "vendor exploit" existed long before the holo-grind, back when your business was in full swing.It was far less noticable then andat that point, it was hard to keep up stock at all. It's been around since day 1. Yet, it sounds like after the holo-grind, your business has suffered. It must be due to the "vendor exploit," of course. I've already acknowledged there are other factors, but this remains a significant one. It just stings so much moreso now. Because if these theives weren't here, mine and the other real merchants business would be doing better.
Fortunately for you, it sounds like the vendor revamp will happen at about the same time as the end of the holo-grind, so when things get back to normal you'll be able to credit the vendor revamp.
DingoBoi wrote:
p4Samwise wrote:
You're making three assumptions:
1) The majority of your competitors are not bona fideMerchants. The majority are not. Not up for dispute. There are several valid power merchants in addition to myself.
How can you be sure that they don't have their Merchant skills? It doesn't take many skill points at all to maintain a couple of vendors with planetary advertising.
2) Your non-Merchant competitors wouldn't simply pick Merchant up if it were needed to stay in business. Then it would be fair business.
And your situation wouldn't be improved any. If that's the case, the exploit itself isn't what's harming you.
3) All non-Merchant vendor owners are taking business away from bona fide Merchants. How can you not see this? Me=Merchant, You = Non merchant. You sell same thing I do.
Actually, I don't sell the same thing you do. I'm not even on your server. You arrived to the discussion late, but I've discussed lots of uses of "exploited" Merchant skills that don't take any business from skill-point-invested Merchants. For example, vendors used by tailors as clotheshorses due to the lack of a simple mannequin item. Or crafters wanting a particular type of vendor just for RP reasons (like a DE wanting a protocol droid vendor, which makes perfect in-game sense given that the DE can MAKE protocol droids). The list goes on.
It seems far more likely that the pain you're experiencing was caused by the economic turmoil that followed the holo-grind. The "vendor exploit" existed long before the holo-grind, back when your business was in full swing.It was far less noticable then andat that point, it was hard to keep up stock at all. It's been around since day 1. Yet, it sounds like after the holo-grind, your business has suffered. It must be due to the "vendor exploit," of course. I've already acknowledged there are other factors, but this remains a significant one. It just stings so much moreso now. Because if these theives weren't here, mine and the other real merchants business would be doing better.
As I said, that's an assumption. If the "thieves" are doing such good business, I don't see any reason why they won't just go ahead and take up the Merchant skills after the revamp, if necessary, and your business will be suffering just as much. You can take solace at that point that it's "fair", I suppose,but really, your game experience will be no better or worse.
I suspect it's far more likely that once the holo-grind is over, there will be a renewed market for power from the bona-fide crafters. Right now, the resource market is completely hosed because of the massive amounts of grinding materials being purchased. Sellers of grind materials harvest their own power to keep their margins high, since grind metal doesn't sell for verygood prices. Once the grind ends, though, there will be a renewed market for quality/rare resources, and miners of those resources stand to gain much more by purchasing wholesale power and using all of their own lots to jump on rare spawns.