Merchant Archive

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DocSavag wrote:

Actually "hiring" has nothing to do with it. The skill mod is "Manage Vendors". They have stated that it was never intended to work as it currently does and thus will be fixed.What part of that don't you get? The dev team didn't say "We'll bow to your demands and change it" they said "That was never meant to be and we will fix it."

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Balkstar wrote:

Let me use a flamethrower without being a Commando, or craft a T21 without being a Weaponsmith, then we'll talk.

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p4Samwise wrote:

You can create a manufacturing schematic for an item and use it long after dropping the skill to create more of that item. This is a fairly common holo-grinder tactic. They'll grind a crafting profession, keep the schematics, grind Merchant, keep the vendors, and then sell the items made from their old schematics from their old vendors so they can fund their combat class grind.

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disanalologous...

schematics and the resources needed to make them run out eventualy.. players cankeep their merchants FOREVER..

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verticalis wrote:

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p4Samwise wrote:

You can create a manufacturing schematic for an item and use it long after dropping the skill to create more of that item. This is a fairly common holo-grinder tactic. They'll grind a crafting profession, keep the schematics, grind Merchant, keep the vendors, and then sell the items made from their old schematics from their old vendors so they can fund their combat class grind.

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disanalologous...

schematics and the resources needed to make them run out eventualy.. players cankeep their merchants FOREVER..

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But why, you might reasonably wonder, do so many more people do this with Merchant than with any other crafting profession? The answer, it seems to me, is that other crafting professions tend to require lots of annoying grinding, whereas Merchant is a sheer pleasure to advance in (unless you're a hardcore holo-grinder and would rather suffer one day of wristpain than spendtwo weeks kicking back and letting the XP roll in while you're logged out).

The solution, then? Give Merchants something that they need to grind in order to advance, AND make it so that the Merchant class is all but worthless (e.g., you can't drop vendors) unless you have the Master box. People won't abandon the skills so casually then - I know that the lack of non-Master viability and the intense grinding are the only reasons I haven't dropped Weaponsmith to try something else. That seems like the sort of solution that SOE would be happy to implement...

Message Edited by p4Samwise on 05-10-2004 07:03 PM

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p4Samwise wrote:

Each schematic is worth 1000 items, and you can make a buttload of schematics. Just ask the top weaponsmiths - on the day of the experimentation change, some of them stockpiled enough "temp nerf" schematics (using resources that they had in sufficient quantities to never worry about running out)to last them YEARS, even with the high volumes they sell their wares at. Never underestimate the power of hundreds of lot trades. They could drop weaponsmith andcontinue to useevery single one of those schematics without interruption.

Suppose for the sake of argument that vendors, like schematics under some circumstances,only lasted a year or two, rather than theoretically forever. Would there be any practical difference? Not really. Did SOE design schematics with the intent that crafters could make enough schematics to last them the rest of their lives and then drop the crafting skills? Probably not - they designed their system with the silly notion that people wouldsell schematics to other players, rather than running their own factories.

Why SOE designed vendors the way they did, frankly, is anyone's guess. Despite their vague mutterings about wanting to change the way they work, it's hard to imagine that it's only now occurring to them that it'd be possible to use vendors after dropping the skills. They can't possibly be that dense.

But why, you might reasonably wonder, do so many more people do this with Merchant than with any other crafting profession? The answer, it seems to me, is that other crafting professions tend to require lots of annoying grinding, whereas Merchant is a sheer pleasure to advance in (unless you're a hardcore holo-grinder and would rather suffer one day of wristpain than spendtwo weeks kicking back and letting the XP roll in while you're logged out).

The solution, then? Give Merchants something that they need to grind in order to advance, AND make it so that the Merchant class is all but worthless (e.g., you can't drop vendors) unless you have the Master box. People won't abandon the skills so casually then - I know that the lack of non-Master viability and the intense grinding are the only reasons I haven't dropped Weaponsmith to try something else. That seems like the sort of solution that SOE would be happy to implement...

Message Edited by p4Samwise on 05-10-2004 07:03 PM

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You mean the grand reward of becoming a Master Merchant is the ability to get out of the profession as quickly as possible? What kind of horse crud is that? Yeah, that should be the lofty goal for all masters of any profession; bail out cause its not worth it. Please. What a rediculous notion. It's not worth my time to think about any more.

Now onto this notion that factory schematics are tools. If I bring someone that has no weaponsmith experience, but a buttload of factory schematics, a ton of raw materials and tell him to build a PROTOTYPE of the weapon of my choosing, because i really dont like the mass produced crud out there. He willtell me that it is not possible, because he will state that he does not have access to the tools of the profession of weaponsmith to make a Prototype.

He carries the goods created by the profession of weaponsmith (which is nothing more that a cookie cutter mold), not the tools. The only way he can use the goods is to plunk it into a factory, scrounge for the resources necessary for the mold, then hit a button on the factory. That is not crafting. That is operating a machine. Regardless of how its percieved as a near endless supply of weapons, its still a good.

I would be more then happy to lower the schematic volume on high priced goods, to say 100 per factory schematic for T21s DX2's and Composite pieces, but for now the rules that SOE have put in the game is 1000 good per schematic.

Message Edited by p4Samwise on 05-11-2004 09:47 AM

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p4Samwise wrote:

You misunderstand. Merchant should be reworked such that NO vendors can be placed or used until the Master box. Or perhaps they can, but they only hold 5 items each. And of course, the Master box should require a minimum of 50k mouse clicks and 500k units of metal to achieve - none of this sitting on your heels and letting the experience roll in.

If people had to WORK for the Master Merchant box, they would never drop it, even if they knew the vendors would stay, because if they ever wanted to change their vendors they'd have to do that horrible grind again. And few crafters would want to take that risk - it's just too much commitment.

The horrible grind is the sole reason that people don't shoot up and down the Weaponsmith tree to make themselves weapons. If you could make decent weapons without spending 620 AXP on Master Weaponsmith, and if you could climb up and down the subtrees just by waiting for Weapon Crafting XP to roll in on its own, nobody would be a dedicated weaponsmith.

Therefore, for Merchant to be more popular as a dedicated profession, Merchants need a horrible grind, and they need the Master box to be a gate to accomplish anything with any of the class skills.

Please, continue bellyaching about how broken Merchant is. It's the best freakin' profession in the game.

Message Edited by p4Samwise on 05-11-2004 09:47 AM

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p4Samwise wrote:

Having XP gain correspond to actual work in the profession is still too lenient, though. If it's not completely meaningless, carpal-tunnel-inducing grind, people still might be willing to do it again. Most of the crafters you want to thwart will have no problem selling goods in order to re-advance as merchants, probably quicker than they do now.

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p4Samwise wrote:

Each schematic is worth 1000 items, and you can make a buttload of schematics. Just ask the top weaponsmiths - on the day of the experimentation change, some of them stockpiled enough "temp nerf" schematics (using resources that they had in sufficient quantities to never worry about running out)to last them YEARS, even with the high volumes they sell their wares at. Never underestimate the power of hundreds of lot trades. They could drop weaponsmith andcontinue to useevery single one of those schematics without interruption.

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Balkstar wrote:

The ideals of merchant is not to physically grind goods.

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