Merchant Archive

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DocSavag wrote:

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Phaelyn wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:



And the option of viewing someone else's merchandise from my vendor is a terrible idea.

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Actually, I have very little issue with people being able to LOOK at other people's wares from my vendor. What *I* don't like is that they can look and then BUY from my vendor.

A simple change to original proposal would have made me happy. A convenience fee. Say, 5% if purchased from the bazaar, acting as a credit sink. And the 5%, if a remote purchase is made from MY vendor gives me the fee.

To be honest, even the Delivery option would have been palatable, provided there were a convenience fee attached.

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As long as those are options for the merchant I am ok with them. But No one gets to advertise their merchandise on my vendor without paying me a fee

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:



I can already see a way to exploit this idea. Anyone who has an alt, can simply run the alt up to Business 3 in Artisan, and place a junk item on a Bulky Terminal. Then, on the main character, the person simply goes to the Bulky, looks through the entire galaxy, and buys what they want. And the percentage that's given to the Merchant? Well, its the alt's vendor, so that 5-10% "finder's fee" goes to the alt, and the player never technically pays extra. He's just essentially buying an item while simultaniously bank tipping his alt.

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The player doesn't pay the fee if he is using his OWN vendor to purchase. Or rather, he does - and it goes right back to him. Why bring an Alt into this? Just for a Combat character to use an Alt to save 5 credits for every 100 spent? The charge is a pittance - Nobody would even want to bother unless they buy millions of credits worth of items every time they shop.

And as an aside - Fess are paid by the Seller, not the buyer - They are paying a fee to be listed on my vendor.

Message Edited by Phaelyn on 02-15-2005 07:39 PM

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Phaelyn wrote:

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Nicolas_Frost wrote:



I can already see a way to exploit this idea. Anyone who has an alt, can simply run the alt up to Business 3 in Artisan, and place a junk item on a Bulky Terminal. Then, on the main character, the person simply goes to the Bulky, looks through the entire galaxy, and buys what they want. And the percentage that's given to the Merchant? Well, its the alt's vendor, so that 5-10% "finder's fee" goes to the alt, and the player never technically pays extra. He's just essentially buying an item while simultaniously bank tipping his alt.

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The player doesn't pay the fee if he is using his OWN vendor to purchase. Or rather, he does - and it goes right back to him. Why bring an Alt into this? Just for a Combat character to use an Alt to save 5 credits for every 100 spent? The charge is a pittance - Nobody would even want to bother unless they buy millions of credits worth of items every time they shop.1

And as an aside - Fess are paid by the Seller, not the buyer - They are paying a fee to be listed on my vendor.2

Message Edited by Phaelyn on 02-15-2005 07:39 PM

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DocSavag wrote:


That option is only available at the vendor. At the bazaar you have to sort through all items in the Region at the lowest level. There is no way to look at one specifc vendor on the bazaar.

And the option of viewing someone else's merchandise from my vendor is a terrible idea.

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Phaelyn wrote:

Actually, I have very little issue with people being able to LOOK at other people's wares from my vendor. What *I* don't like is that they can look and then BUY from my vendor.

A simple change to original proposal would have made me happy. A convenience fee. Say, 5% if purchased from the bazaar, acting as a credit sink. And the 5%, if a remote purchase is made from MY vendor gives me the fee.

To be honest, even the Delivery option would have been palatable, provided there were a convenience fee attached.

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Phaelyn wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:



And the option of viewing someone else's merchandise from my vendor is a terrible idea.

---

Actually, I have very little issue with people being able to LOOK at other people's wares from my vendor. What *I* don't like is that they can look and then BUY from my vendor.

A simple change to original proposal would have made me happy. A convenience fee. Say, 5% if purchased from the bazaar, acting as a credit sink. And the 5%, if a remote purchase is made from MY vendor gives me the fee.

To be honest, even the Delivery option would have been palatable, provided there were a convenience fee attached.

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Message Edited by Andymantium on 02-15-2005 05:08 PM

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DocSavag wrote:

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Phaelyn wrote:

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DocSavag wrote:



And the option of viewing someone else's merchandise from my vendor is a terrible idea.

---

Actually, I have very little issue with people being able to LOOK at other people's wares from my vendor. What *I* don't like is that they can look and then BUY from my vendor.

A simple change to original proposal would have made me happy. A convenience fee. Say, 5% if purchased from the bazaar, acting as a credit sink. And the 5%, if a remote purchase is made from MY vendor gives me the fee.

To be honest, even the Delivery option would have been palatable, provided there were a convenience fee attached.

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As long as those are options for the merchant I am ok with them. But No one gets to advertise their merchandise on my vendor without paying me a fee

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Advertising aside, if someone gets to buy my products from my vendor after I have banned them from my buildings then my property rights as a player are being ignored. I hear very little on that.

Fivo Asia

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mpdivo wrote:

OMG! Has anyone checked out Yahoo.com yet? I just did and found out that you can price compare. I found that I could instantly see how much and item cost and who has it. Sure, sometimes I have to actually drive to get it but come on! Why isn't the government shutting this down?

If this is allowed to continue, this will be the end of the merchant class as we know it.

Not to mention, I tried to look for a laptop and there are thousands on there. That is too much for a consumer to go through.

Bottom line, open competition is going to make a lot of merchants quit because they can't compete with laptops made in China. Buying from China is a fraking exploit! The government needs to not only kick out those that use China in their trades but it should shut down websites like Yahoo because established merchants like microsoft and walmart work hard and spend a lot of time in developing their goods. I mean, the consumer is too lazy to go to each individual shop? Why should they have it easy when it is so hard and time consuming for big business?

Some merchants have too much money too and they will just keep on kicking the prices down until the bigger companies that have been charging huge prices will be forced to quit and go to Cuba...WHERE THEY RESPECT THE MERCHANT CLASS!

Over 75% of those in the business community feel this way. Just look at the business pages. So why hasn't the government shut this down?

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The day that SOE lets me make contracts with people (like yourself) where you are held to a standard and not allowed to commit fraud on me as long as you don't use spatial to do it, I'll start to give an ear to this type of talk.

And the extra HANDLING fees don't go to the government black hole in RL, unlike SWG. Handling constitutes as much as 25% of the profit on many items on the sub $500 ladder.

Too bad you only have claptrap and not and substance.

Fivo Asia

Message Edited by Cafa on 02-16-2005 07:59 AM

Geez After finallyreading through the thread on the Concepts Forum and this one I have come to several conclusions.

1. There does need to be a change which would allow for galaxy wide vendor searches. It is stupid for a game, supposed set with advanced technology, not to have a galatic market. As a combat player, I'm always looking for the best of the best. I don't want to have to check Corellia, Naboo, and Danto to find the best product. But also as a merchant, on my alt, it would be stupid of me or any othermerchantnot to participate on a galatic vendor system.Here is why...Ican only do so much at a time. If I need to craft something, that is less time that I have to setup another vendor on a different planet. But if I, or anyone else, can get their name out more andstill be able to provide the products, lets do it.
   
   


2. The state of the economy requires a swtich to a galatic vendor system because it would deflate the market. The combat characters got screwed when the devs took away the money given to players in group missions. So there has been an imbalancein the distrabution of wealth. The crafters and docs have beencharging rateswhich were supportedwhen thecombat peoplecouldmake the money. But, after the devs removed the money, the crafters and docsdidn't change their rates.Currently, you can't buy a fullset of high quality compositefor under 300k. This would change under a galaxy wide vendor system. The overall costs for crafting and doc products will have to decrease.
   
   


3. Tons of people on thisthread, and the threadin the Concept Forum,were complaining about undercutting and how price will drive the market. I ask you this, WHERE DOESN'T THIS APPLY?
   
   Holy cow, I thought people suddenly had a brain fart and forgot about real life. Do you go to the grocery store, look at two comparable products, and buy the most expensive? What about car shopping? What the heck is the point of places like ebay motors and carmax? The answer...to provide consumers a products with the lowest prices. Just look at Walmart. Why is it the biggest retail company in the world? Because they sell the greatest variety of products with the cheapest prices.
   
   Gosh dang, if you took an economics class you would understand that the thing that drives the market is price.Increased competition, which is what you would get from a galaxywide vendor system, only leads to cheaper prices. I'm sorry for those of us who took time to setup houses that look cool and found the best possible locations for our houses. But that alone shouldn't dictate if people buy from us or not.
   
   


4. And that is another thing people forget. When I go to buy armor or any other item, I am in 1 of 2 moods. Either I want the high quality for PvP or I want high quantity for Grinding. The market will not go poof and suddenly only the lowest bid will be bought. People will pay more for high quality stuff, as long as the price is still reasonable. Reasonable doesn't exist in the current state of the game.
   
   


5. Finally, alot of people were saying that only Guild vendors will take the whole market, as they can offer cheaper rates. In essense, people were saying that monopolys would be created.Several made refrences to Walmart like guilds. These guild vendors, after destroying the smaller vendors, would then be able to raise the price to enormous amounts.
   
   This is a idiotic theory as well. If, theoretically, someone could takeover the whole galaticmarket and chargeoutrageous prices(which is harder and harder to doas the number of competitors become greater), all anyone with any business sence would have to do is start a small business which offers cheaper prices. It is that easy to fix a "monopolistic guild takeover." That is, in fact, how Walmart started; a small hardware shop which worked to better its prices. Slowly it grew and beat out its biggest competitors.
   
   A galatic vendor system benifits small vendors more than it does big ones. The big guild vendors already have their name out. Yet for the small vendor owner, this allows for their product to be looked at more and purchased more. Eventually, as all great business grow, the small vendor might join a guild vendor. But this too is good for the economy because as a business becomes bigger it has to specialize more. Specialization makes it really great at what it is doing, but it opens the market for other small vendors to come in and start up.

The devs would be doing everyone a disservice not to include a galatic wide vendor search. Initially, sure, people are going to be upset because they will have to change their stuff. Merchant will have to go through a revamp which could make it cost little or no character skill points. And of course, the way merchants get Xp will have to change. But in the long run, this would be better for the economy as a whole.

Message Edited by Nitwit on 02-16-2005 12:36 PM

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Nitwit wrote:

Geez After finallyreading through the thread on the Concepts Forum and this one I have come to several conclusions.

1. There does need to be a change which would allow for galaxy wide vendor searches. It is stupid for a game, supposed set with advanced technology, not to have a galatic market. As a combat player, I'm always looking for the best of the best. I don't want to have to check Corellia, Naboo, and Danto to find the best product. But also as a merchant, on my alt, it would be stupid of me or any othermerchantnot to participate on a galatic vendor system.Here is why...Ican only do so much at a time. If I need to craft something, that is less time that I have to setup another vendor on a different planet. But if I, or anyone else, can get their name out more andstill be able to provide the products, lets do it.
   I don't think I've seen a single real merchant say they don't WANT people to see their wares, I HAVE seen people writing they didn't like the idea as presented. The fact of the matter is, some things DO have to take time. Would the game be as satisfying if all you had to do was go outside your house, instantly choose a mission from a personal terminal, and the spawn is right in front of you? Saves you even MORE time, right? No more travelling at all, no more inter-personal contact. In fact, why not just make all crafted goods have no variance at all, and make it a single button process. Lots faster. Sarcasm aside, saving time is wonderful. A galactic Market is wonderful. But let's not make the game into a speed contest.
   


2. The state of the economy requires a swtich to a galatic vendor system because it would deflate the market. The combat characters got screwed when the devs took away the money given to players in group missions. So there has been an imbalancein the distrabution of wealth. The crafters and docs have beencharging rateswhich were supportedwhen thecombat peoplecouldmake the money. But, after the devs removed the money, the crafters and docsdidn't change their rates.Currently, you can't buy a fullset of high quality compositefor under 300k. This would change under a galaxy wide vendor system. The overall costs for crafting and doc products will have to decrease.
   Do you speak for all servers? On mine, I can buy that same quality composite for under 200k. So, to make your server a better place to play - you impose things on all servers, where nothing is broken?
   


3. Tons of people on thisthread, and the threadin the Concept Forum,were complaining about undercutting and how price will drive the market. I ask you this, WHERE DOESN'T THIS APPLY?
   
   Holy cow, I thought people suddenly had a brain fart and forgot about real life. Do you go to the grocery store, look at two comparable products, and buy the most expensive? What about car shopping? What the heck is the point of places like ebay motors and carmax? The answer...to provide consumers a products with the lowest prices. Just look at Walmart. Why is it the biggest retail company in the world? Because they sell the greatest variety of products with the cheapest prices.
   
   Gosh dang, if you took an economics class you would understand that the thing that drives the market is price.Increased competition, which is what you would get from a galaxywide vendor system, only leads to cheaper prices. I'm sorry for those of us who took time to setup houses that look cool and found the best possible locations for our houses. But that alone shouldn't dictate if people buy from us or not.
   Economics also taught me that things like market share, customer demographics and location matter. Price is only the lowest common denominator. Something people seem to forget is that whenever a Walmart moves in, "mom and pop" stores in the city take a devestating financial blow. In the game mechanics, this is going to mean the "casual" crafter will take the hit, and the established crafters will gain the market advantage.
   


4. And that is another thing people forget. When I go to buy armor or any other item, I am in 1 of 2 moods. Either I want the high quality for PvP or I want high quantity for Grinding. The market will not go poof and suddenly only the lowest bid will be bought. People will pay more for high quality stuff, as long as the price is still reasonable. Reasonable doesn't exist in the current state of the game.
   And you forget that other people have different playing styles. Somebody else may be out looking for furniture to make their private space pretty. But, the interesting thing is that you just contradicted yourself. First you say prices will come down - And now you say people will pay more for quality. Quakity will remain, the lowest common denominator (price) will dictate if Armor A or Armor B will be purchased. Remember, in an absolute level playing field, price will be the only thing that matters.
   


5. Finally, alot of people were saying that only Guild vendors will take the whole market, as they can offer cheaper rates. In essense, people were saying that monopolys would be created.Several made refrences to Walmart like guilds. These guild vendors, after destroying the smaller vendors, would then be able to raise the price to enormous amounts.
   
   This is a idiotic theory as well. If, theoretically, someone could takeover the whole galaticmarket and chargeoutrageous prices(which is harder and harder to doas the number of competitors become greater), all anyone with any business sence would have to do is start a small business which offers cheaper prices. It is that easy to fix a "monopolistic guild takeover." That is, in fact, how Walmart started; a small hardware shop which worked to better its prices. Slowly it grew and beat out its biggest competitors.
   If you look at it's affects on market share, Walmart gained prominence by undercuttiing it's neighbors. As it expanded, and gained more vendors, it began to undercut in different areas. Maybe you haven't seen all the economic papers that show that whenever Walmart moves into an area, businesses in that area die out, NOT improve their sales. This is due to Walmart have a stranglehold on the merket share.
   A galatic vendor system benifits small vendors more than it does big ones. The big guild vendors already have their name out. Yet for the small vendor owner, this allows for their product to be looked at more and purchased more. Eventually, as all great business grow, the small vendor might join a guild vendor. But this too is good for the economy because as a business becomes bigger it has to specialize more. Specialization makes it really great at what it is doing, but it opens the market for other small vendors to come in and start up.

OK. New Crafter coming into the market, wants to make item X. Does not have the resources, so has to buy them. Even assuming a small markup Purchases needed resources at 1.5cpu. Take's 1500 of the resource, so their cost to make item is 2250. Meaning, must sell item at 2251 to make any profit at all.

Established crafter wants to make item X. Has all the resources saved from months of playing. For arguments sake however, let's say mined the resources for .8cpu. His cost to make item is 1200. Can now sell item at 1500, making more profit than New Crafter could in the first place., Effect: New Crafter priced out of the system.

The devs would be doing everyone a disservice not to include a galatic wide vendor search. Initially, sure, people are going to be upset because they will have to change their stuff. Merchant will have to go through a revamp which could make it cost little or no character skill points. And of course, the way merchants get Xp will have to change. But in the long run, this would be better for the economy as a whole.

Message Edited by Nitwit on 02-16-2005 12:36 PM

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